Last hope for Valentino...2012

Sure, course they would.



For someone who's so over the hill, it's amazing how much attention Rossi gets from people who parently don't like him. Some of it is gloating I guess, though I get the impression that some people on here are aggrieved Rossi even has fans....

Nino said:

Sure, course they would.



For someone who's so over the hill, it's amazing how much attention Rossi gets from people who parently don't like him. Some of it is gloating I guess, though I get the impression that some people on here are aggrieved Rossi even has fans....

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Rossi is a very successful rider that showed a sharp drop in performance this year. This is a forum devoted to motorsport. People wonder if he can make a come-back, and what it would take for him to do so. I don't see what's wrong with that.



Since, judging by your second sentence, you so like to liberally interpret other people's post, let me interpret yours. I'd say you suffer from a bit of victim complex. You hear people talking of Rossi's woes and immediately assume that they are gloating. Did you ever stop to think that maybe most of us are just race fans (regardless of what rider) who are genuinely at a loss to explain Rossi's current form or to predict what his future will hold, making this a very interesting subject to speculate about? You seem to demand that some special dispensation should be given to Rossi when things go bad and he should only be mentioned once things look better again. Or maybe you dislike seeing posters that are not outspoken fans of the guy to talk of his troubles?

No I just don't like reading rubbish like 'Ducati must be unhappy with Rossi's lack of effort.'



As far as you saying Rossi's performance has sharply dropped this year, we all know that the biggest drop has been in his bikes performance. Or are we now saying Stoner had a massive drop in performance in 2009 and 2010 and performed poorly?

Nino said:

No I just don't like reading rubbish like 'Ducati must be unhappy with Rossi's lack of effort.'



As far as you saying Rossi's performance has sharply dropped this year, we all know that the biggest drop has been in his bikes performance. Or are we now saying Stoner had a

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Ducati is unhappy, or else they wouldnt be dreaming publicly of having Stoner test their new bike. Those 3 -4 wins a season are looking pretty damn sweet about now.

Nino said:

No I just don't like reading rubbish like 'Ducati must be unhappy with Rossi's lack of effort.'



As far as you saying Rossi's performance has sharply dropped this year, we all know that the biggest drop has been in his bikes performance. Or are we now saying Stoner had a massive drop in performance in 2009 and 2010 and performed poorly?

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c`mon man, it`s obvious he`s not trying enough. he must, at least, to be the first ducati, but he isn`t. abraham was better than him, and now barbera.

Nino said:

No I just don't like reading rubbish like 'Ducati must be unhappy with Rossi's lack of effort.'



As far as you saying Rossi's performance has sharply dropped this year, we all know that the biggest drop has been in his bikes performance. Or are we now saying Stoner had a massive drop in performance in 2009 and 2010 and performed poorly?

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Yeah, that was kind of what I was saying now, wasn't it. You don't like reading things, so others must keep quite. You'd have my sympathy if it really were mindless bashing, but most of the observation that are being made about Rossi now are not in any way different than any other rider would get if they were in his position.



In my previous post, I was speaking about his performance in quantifiable terms, i.e. his race finishing positions and his position in the championship (given the context of the post, this seems fairly obvious to me). The fact that you made the partition between rider performance and bike performance and automatically assumed that I was solely referring to his performance as rider only underlines my previous observation that you do in fact seem to be suffering from a bit of a victim complex.



The last sentence of your post is a false dichotomy. Try rephrasing and I'll think about answering.

So Stoner had a crap 2009 and 2010, given that he finished 4th in the Championship after the high of being World Champion in 2007.



'Victim complex' - what a bunch of ........, surely Rossi is the victim here. And I doubt he cares much about what some Stoner fans think about him. For those of us who frequent the forum though....

Nino said:

So Stoner had a crap 2009 and 2010, given that he finished 4th in the Championship after the high of being World Champion in 2007.



'Victim complex' - what a bunch of ........, surely Rossi is the victim here. And I doubt he cares much about what some Stoner fans think about him. For those of us who frequent the forum though....

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Nino, I give up. Normally, I'd take the time to reply until you'd at least understand what I'm saying but you so blatantly refuse to put any effort at all into reading and/or comprehending what I wrote, that I have to concede.

Nino said:

So Stoner had a crap 2009 and 2010, given that he finished 4th in the Championship after the high of being World Champion in 2007.



'Victim complex' - what a bunch of ........, surely Rossi is the victim here. And I doubt he cares much about what some Stoner fans think about him. For those of us who frequent the forum though....

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Why is Rossi the victim here?

He gave an ultimatum to yamaha, they called his bluff.

He went to the POS duc of his own doing.

Help me out. Please explain!



IMO he's a victim of his own doing.

J4rn0 said:

It's not that I live in the past (actually when I predicted a dominant Stoner if he went to Honda, I was apparently living in the future) but you see, it's hard to think that Rossi had such a sudden decline and would not do better that this on a bike that suits him better, Ducati or other...

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You are confusing two issues here. I agree that Rossi has not suffered a major or sudden decline in his ability. I am sure if he was on a more competative bike he would run at the front and win races, i also think that would be excellent to see. But i don't think this has any relevance to Stoner's position at the top of the sport because A) He has already gone head to head with Rossi and won. He is currently going head to head with the most appropriate rider, who himself has beaten Rossi to the championship. C) Stoner is already the man of the current era in all ways but number of titles, and it'd be hard to convince any reasonable person that Rossi would be able to lay a glove on Casey this year regardless of equipment.

birdman said:

From 2008 to 2010 the story went like:

Lorenzo: mentally strong and almost a match for Rossi in this area but he cant develop or even set up a bike without Rossi to copy.

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I don't know what you have been watching but Lorenzo is widely credited with being one of the highest quality riders currently on the grid, especially when it comes to set up. When Rossi demanded that data wasn't shared anymore it played directly into Lorenzo's hands.

Of course Rossi would be challenging for the title on equal machinery. Only last year Stoner finished 4th in the championship despite Pedrosa and Rossi missing several races.



As mentioned there hasnt some big decline in Rossi's ability, he just doesnt have confidence in the bike. I'm sure he could go a bit faster, but then he'd be binning it like Stoner last year so he's trying to change the characteristics of the bike. Honda have a much quicker bike than the rest on most tracks. Just a shame Pedrosa isnt consistent and gets injured a lot.

Michael was on the right track with his theory that on the Yamaha Rossi would have the belief. This is correct, one win on the Yamaha and Rossi is Rossi again. But why is this so? Trying to compare skills and talent with these guys is like trying to split hairs, they are just too close to say definitively one is better than the other.

So analyse where they get the belief.

As a generalized observation Rossi is a classic extrovert. He gets his motivation and belief from external sources - the attention and adoration of the fans, the media, the world. Catch 22 is on the Ducati the wins have dried up, so the source of his motivation is gone, and as a result he has lost belief. More classic extrovert behaviour is when something is wrong they dont blame themselves (internal) they blame the things around them (external). In this case the bike, the frame. The bike has to change for Rossi to be Rossi.

Stoner is introverted. He does not get motivation by being held up on a pedestal. His motivation comes from within and therefore when something is wrong he looks to himself to overcome it. Therefore the Ducati was not such a problem for him, he changed whatever needed to be changed within himself to make it work, specifically his style. The bike just has to be a bike for Stoner to be Stoner.

Evolution said:

Yes sure. Rossi was in good position for the title in 2010 just as well as Pedro was this year. Its not like saying that Crutch or RdP could have taken the title technically this year. You know it and everyone knows it. Dont let your hate cloud your posts.

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Ok.....thanks

same old same here again........



its getting quite interesting, judging from Prezozi's comments, I'd say that quite a rift has developed within Ducati......Stoner's reaction is typically dumb, and no doubt he knows he will never have to prove his rather bold statements, everyone around the sport with any sense knows that Stoner would not be competitive on this years Duck either against the current competition, he has the luxury of last years few wins....but the 4th place behind his injured competition states the truth of the matter. This is not surprising as we know Stoner is good at not thinking before he speaks.......



Next year could bring about some surprises....I doubt Yamaha's 'roll over' for Honda will continue, and depending on who wins the argument at Ducati they could also be right there with Rossi......

What is clear is that Filippo is copping a lot of flack at present, no doubt bringing about knee-jerk statements like the ones recently.....they have failed to deliver a competitive machine for the past 3 years no matter who is riding it, it is clear who needs to change and where the source of the problems lie....in saying that the MSMA and Bridgestone are not helping one little bit.



Once again 'Equal vs Fair' it is clear the current regs are 'equal'......but as soon as you factor in differing Riding styles, differing engineering philosophy's, differing rider weights/heights and a lack of differing tyre construction (all of the things we used to love that made Motogp the spectacle it once was) its certainly not 'fair'

talpa = trolling





All class if you ask me, he has no reason to bother with ducati now, but he keeps getting ask the questions and people wanna read about it so he has to answer it.



Stoner re ducati: "I hope for them that the results arrive soon, and they get a boost in morale."

Nino said:

. Does anyone really think some of these posters would be saying Lorenzo beat Stoner last year if it had been Stoner who broke his leg mid-season?

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How come you come on here to say the absolutely most idiotic statements ever ( or questions/assumptions as in this case ).



I know of no Stoner fan who would be sayng such bopper delusional crap. Even Pinky wouldn't be as rabid.



Don't you get it .......... absolute rubbish like "poor ole Rossi would have won had he not broken his leg!" ....... only works for the religiously fanatic bopper ....... its pretty much the escence of why a Bopper is a "Bopper".

Nino said:

Of course Rossi would be challenging for the title on equal machinery. Only last year Stoner finished 4th in the championship despite Pedrosa and Rossi missing several races.



As mentioned there hasnt some big decline in Rossi's ability, he just doesnt have confidence in the bike. I'm sure he could go a bit faster, but then he'd be binning it like Stoner last year so he's trying to change the characteristics of the bike. Honda have a much quicker bike than the rest on most tracks. Just a shame Pedrosa isnt consistent and gets injured a lot.

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"doesn't have the confidence in the bike" well thats because he needs to develop the skills to ride it. As I have always said, Rossi has never been an outstandingly skilled rider, and I get lambasted for saying so but his ride on the Ducati has made it plain for all to see.



Stoner on the Ducati ..........he gets a few wins at the end of 2010 and the Boppers are crying "he's on the best bike!!"



Rossi tests the Ducati and he's attrocious on it and the Boppers are crying " its the Ducati its a POS!!"



get real .........

BarryMachine said:

"doesn't have the confidence in the bike"

well thats because he needs to develop the skills to ride it. As I have always said, Rossi has never been an outstandingly skilled rider, and I get lambasted for saying so but his ride on the Ducati has made it plain for all to see.



Stoner on the Ducati ..........he gets a few wins at the end of 2010 and the Boppers are crying "he's on the best bike!!"



Rossi tests the Ducati and he's attrocious on it and the Boppers are crying " its the Ducati its a POS!!"



get real .........

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Yeah I guess the stars just aligned 9 times for Rossi...or is it true that he's the big bad wolf and won his titles through cheating, while the rest could only stand and watch from afar. You wanna talk about idiotic statements when you're possibly the biggest ...... on here :WTF?

Talpa said:

same old same here again........



its getting quite interesting, judging from Prezozi's comments, I'd say that quite a rift has developed within Ducati......Stoner's reaction is typically dumb, and no doubt he knows he will never have to prove his rather bold statements, everyone around the sport with any sense knows that Stoner would not be competitive on this years Duck either against the current competition, he has the luxury of last years few wins....but the 4th place behind his injured competition states the truth of the matter. This is not surprising as we know Stoner is good at not thinking before he speaks.......



Next year could bring about some surprises....I doubt Yamaha's 'roll over' for Honda will continue, and depending on who wins the argument at Ducati they could also be right there with Rossi......

What is clear is that Filippo is copping a lot of flack at present, no doubt bringing about knee-jerk statements like the ones recently.....they have failed to deliver a competitive machine for the past 3 years no matter who is riding it, it is clear who needs to change and where the source of the problems lie....in saying that the MSMA and Bridgestone are not helping one little bit.



Once again 'Equal vs Fair' it is clear the current regs are 'equal'......but as soon as you factor in differing Riding styles, differing engineering philosophy's, differing rider weights/heights and a lack of differing tyre construction (all of the things we used to love that made Motogp the spectacle it once was) its certainly not 'fair'

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Just at the moment stoner is in a position to say pretty well anything he likes, a position familiar to rossi for most of his career, and which he was quite happy to utilise to comment about the likes of biaggi and gibernau, to say nothing of honda etc.



I wouldn't be at all surprised if stoner went back to ducati some day given these comments, not that it would necessarily be wise to do so.



Again what stoner got last year on the ducati was at least a few wins, which it would seem ducati would swap for the current consistent 5th and 6th places. Stoner also showed an ability to get safe 4th places for a time last year (and was roundly criticised for it) and to enter your realm of the hypothetical could quite possibly have got 3rd in the championship if this had been his aim rather than winning races. The substance of your argument which seems to be that rossi finishing 6th will be more meritorious than stoner finishing 4th would appear to be that stoner was advantaged by not having to finish ahead of himself in the points, not your strongest line of argument. You also have no way of knowing whether dovi would be as competitive this year without stoner's data and line of development; the stiffer chassis which both he and stoner have adopted might not even have been available without stoner. You claim it is obvious that the 2011 honda is vastly superior to the 2011 yamaha, but many aspects of the 2007 and subsequent ducatis which were claimed to be equally obvious by many including you have proved not to be so. The fact remains that if stoner is taken out , particularly since he is the reason there are 3 HRC bikes, lorenzo quite likely would be easily leading the championship.

Nino said:

Yeah I guess the stars just aligned 9 times for Rossi...or is it true that he's the big bad wolf and won his titles through cheating, while the rest could only stand and watch from afar. You wanna talk about idiotic statements when you're possibly the biggest ...... on here

:WTF?

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Yes, and the phase of the moon and the alignment of the stars made stoner's bike vastly superior for all 30 of his wins, no matter the intrinsic capability of whatever bike he was on, and any injury or illness he may have is fakery and pathetic excuse making, despite neither he nor his most rabid fans on here excusing him not winning the 2008 and 2009 championships on their basis as barry says, as opposed to valentino's obviously noble and championship preventing wounds last year .