Last hope for Valentino...2012

Can Rossi win again? Winning a title, for any rider, is always 30% skill, 30% bike and 30% psycho-physical fitness (and the last, critical 10% is luck). Imo, on the right bike (for him) Rossi can still compete at the top against Stoner and Lorenzo & C., but that will depend (30%...) on how the 2012 Ducati will suit him (the GP12 we know, now being raced as the GP11.1, will be scrapped at the end of this season).



The GP12.2 could even be competitive, since it will have a new frame, new gearbox, new engine, but surely it will suffer for lack of testing time since it will be debuted only at Valencia and will be, well, new... !



The last thing Rossi needed in the last years of his career was a new bike to develop from scratch -- he doesn't have that kind of time, really. He already wasted 2010. 2011 is another wasted season for him. He's now going to be 33, and he's going to ride a totally new bike... So it could well happen that Rossi doesn't win another title. Or another race, even (but it can always rain).



He's not going to kill himself because of that, he's won enough, but personally I would like to see him dueling with Stoner for another couple of years. He needs the right bike to do that. He would probably be second, but that would be fair at the end of his career and at the beginning of the Stoner era. It would also be the right way to crown Stoner as the new King. We should not be deprived of that last confrontation.



We need Rossi back...

As someone who said the same thing about stoner in 2009 your opinion should be respected, and as it happens I agree anyway.



At the moment jorge and dani don't seem to believe stoner is beatable. Such lack of belief would not be a problem for valentino on a competitive bike.

J4rn0 said:

. He needs the right bike to do that. He would probably be second, but that would be fair at the end of his career and at the beginning of the Stoner era. It would also be the right way to crown Stoner as the new King. We should not be deprived of that last confrontation.



We need Rossi back...

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yeah but stoner needs to slow down by about 1.5sec per lap for that to happen.... everything is already confirmed. stoner is the aliens alien.

michaelm said:

As someone who said the same thing about stoner in 2009 your opinion should be respected, and as it happens I agree anyway.



At the moment jorge and dani don't seem to believe stoner is beatable. Such lack of belief would not be a problem for valentino on a competitive bike.

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I also have the impression that Lorenzo is a little depressed, his dream of a great Lorenzo Era in Lorenzo's Land has been shattered by the reality of Stoner's strength on the Honda. Dani, well, he's been trained for years looking up at a rider he perceives as better than himself. He seems satisfied with shining here and there. Sic was promising, but has been psychologically beaten into submission, at least for the moment, and Spies has not yet taken that final step up that would allow him to challenge Stoner. Same as Dovi.

That's why we need Rossi back...

J4rn0 said:

I also have the impression that Lorenzo is a little depressed, his dream of a great Lorenzo Era in Lorenzo's Land has been shattered by the reality of Stoner's strength on the Honda. Dani, well, he's been trained for years looking up at a rider he perceives as better than himself. He seems satisfied with shining here and there. Sic was promising, but has been psychologically beaten into submission, at least for the moment, and Spies has not yet taken that final step up that would allow him to challenge Stoner. Same as Dovi.

That's why we need Rossi back...

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You post some serious rubbish. Stoners era is already in full swing, he beat Rossi at his first serious attempt and doesn't need some special battle to confirm his status, especially not with a rider who isn't quick enough to compete with him anyway. Lorenzo is definitely unhappy at the moment, but winning multiple titles is still easily possible. Any rider knows how frustrating it is to get beaten comfortably even when they do their absolute best. Lorenzo isn't an ..... though, if he has given up on this year, he certainly hasn't given up on his career. As for Pedrosa, if you seriously think he is happy not winning then you obviously don't understand the sport at all

I think we need the next crop of young guns coming through rather than hoping that the older guard can put up a fight. I am more interested in the future of the sport and looking for the next riders who can challenge Stoner and Lorenzo.

Mental Anarchist said:

I think we need the next crop of young guns coming through rather than hoping that the older guard can put up a fight. I am more interested in the future of the sport and looking for the next riders who can challenge Stoner and Lorenzo.

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Yes, that is natural but generational change will take some time. For the next couple of years, the only likely challengers for Stoner on the Honda will be Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Spies. Perhaps Sic. That's why we still need "old" Rossi, who could challenge the new king better than most of them, on a competitive bike.

Mental Anarchist said:

I think we need the next crop of young guns coming through rather than hoping that the older guard can put up a fight. I am more interested in the future of the sport and looking for the next riders who can challenge Stoner and Lorenzo.

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As I have said, the learning curve in transferring from the 600s to motogp very much appears as though it will be steep, like 250s to 500s, particularly given that elias won rather well last year, although he admittedly may be a special case of tyre incompatibilty, so waiting for new guys to come through may mean quite a wait.



It seems I am not a rossi hater after all, since I see no reason at all why he wouldn't be still competitive on a more conventional bike. Why such hatred for him anyway?, some of his fans have been fairly over the top, but rossi hasn't really done stoner much ill, and having him back on a competitive bike would make any achievements by stoner or lorenzo the greater.

Tom said:

You post some serious rubbish. Stoners era is already in full swing, he beat Rossi at his first serious attempt and doesn't need some special battle to confirm his status, especially not with a rider who isn't quick enough to compete with him anyway. Lorenzo is definitely unhappy at the moment, but winning multiple titles is still easily possible. Any rider knows how frustrating it is to get beaten comfortably even when they do their absolute best. Lorenzo isn't an ..... though, if he has given up on this year, he certainly hasn't given up on his career. As for Pedrosa, if you seriously think he is happy not winning then you obviously don't understand the sport at all

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Rubbish? I always said that the new king of the series, after Rossi, would be Stoner. I also said that on a Honda he would be very hard to beat for anybody. It doesn't sound like rubbish now, but I was saying it quite a long time ago. I'm sorry for your favorite Lorenzo and also for eternal runner-up Pedrosa, they are great riders but they have always been a step down from Rossi and Stoner. Since 2008-9 Stoner has matured and Rossi is not getting any younger, so Stoner now is stronger than Rossi, -- still they are the two best riders in the world and it is a pity they cannot fight it out at the top. Just my feeling.

J4rn0 said:

Rubbish? I always said that the new king of the series, after Rossi, would be Stoner. I also said that on a Honda he would be very hard to beat for anybody. It doesn't sound like rubbish now, but I was saying it quite a long time ago. I'm sorry for your favorite Lorenzo and also for eternal runner-up Pedrosa, they are great riders but they have always been a step down from Rossi and Stoner. Since 2008-9 Stoner has matured and Rossi is not getting any younger, so Stoner now is stronger than Rossi, -- still they are the two best riders in the world and it is a pity they cannot fight it out at the top. Just my feeling.

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My objection to that is that Rossi clearly isn't the second best rider in the world. Lorenzo has risen through the ranks more impressively than Stoner and althogh Stoner has the current edge, i wouldn't suggest Lorenzo has already peaked because i'm not that foolish. Lorenzo has already beaten Rossi and now he's facing the much tougher challenge of Stoner and an arguable machinary disadvantage. I suppose it is a pity for you that Rossi isn't what he used to be, but everyone can't be the best at one time, and nobody can rule forever. Stoner is currently fighting for a title (successfully) with the strongest oponent motogp has, and that oponent is likely to get stronger as he matures. I think we should be celebrating what we have to look forward to

Stoner has been dominant since 07 in terms of beginning to win races, however given the number of races he has dominated by it really shows he has been the best rider since he has been in MGP.



The only question was "why with so many wins did it not translate to more WC's?", but Rossi to Ducati and Stoner to Honda has supplied the answer to that. The Stat's may also reflect it at the end of this year as well.

Stoner era? Don't be surprised if he retires in a year or two. Now that his missus is pregnant and kid's on the way,he will probably disappear back to his farm. I think Ducati are going to have come up with some thing pretty radical for Rossi to be competitive in 2012. Some one mentioned Rossi age but really don't think thats going to slow him down, probably be more worried about his mental state, can or will he bounce back.

michaelm said:

As I have said, the learning curve in transferring from the 600s to motogp very much appears as though it will be steep, like 250s to 500s, particularly given that elias won rather well last year, although he admittedly may be a special case of tyre incompatibilty, so waiting for new guys to come through may mean quite a wait.



It seems I am not a rossi hater after all, since I see no reason at all why he wouldn't be still competitive on a more conventional bike. Why such hatred for him anyway?, some of his fans have been fairly over the top, but rossi hasn't really done stoner much ill, and having him back on a competitive bike would make any achievements by stoner or lorenzo the greater.

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I have no hate for Rossi at all, his fans well that is a different story. I don't care for him much and to me he is not MotoGP. I have watched long before he came and will watch long after he is gone. I think you are wrong about the new guys expected in the sport next year and the year after. If someone is going to mix it with Stoner and Lorenzo they will be fast straight away. It is highly likely that the tyres will be far easier next year which will help the newbs.



What is your view on a comment I made in another thread about Moto2 riders being test riders for Factory MotoGP Teams? I think it would be a good way to get them up to speed quicker and no doubt they would be faster than the current test riders.

Tom said:

My objection to that is that Rossi clearly isn't the second best rider in the world. Lorenzo has risen through the ranks more impressively than Stoner and althogh Stoner has the current edge, i wouldn't suggest Lorenzo has already peaked because i'm not that foolish. Lorenzo has already beaten Rossi and now he's facing the much tougher challenge of Stoner and an arguable machinary disadvantage. I suppose it is a pity for you that Rossi isn't what he used to be, but everyone can't be the best at one time, and nobody can rule forever. Stoner is currently fighting for a title (successfully) with the strongest oponent motogp has, and that oponent is likely to get stronger as he matures. I think we should be celebrating what we have to look forward to

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It is difficult to judge Rossi's current level cause of the machinery gap he has to fill, and it has been difficult last year as well because of the injuries. It would be nice to find out if he could still be up there with Stoner and Lorenzo, on a competitive bike. I think so, and think he could mount a better challenge to Stoner -- clearly the dominant rider now -- than others. Lorenzo is a great rider but he's ridden only a very nice factory Yamaha so far, just like Pedro only ever rode a factory Honda. Somehow I cannot yet rank them among the truly great (where Stoner and Rossi already belong).

J4rn0 said:

It is difficult to judge Rossi's current level cause of the machinery gap he has to fill, and it has been difficult last year as well because of the injuries. It would be nice to find out if he could still be up there with Stoner and Lorenzo, on a competitive bike. I think so, and think he could mount a better challenge to Stoner -- clearly the dominant rider now -- than others. Lorenzo is a great rider but he's ridden only a very nice factory Yamaha so far, just like Pedro only ever rode a factory Honda. Somehow I cannot yet rank them among the truly great (where Stoner and Rossi already belong).

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Rossi is great, but that does not mean he is immune to time, or questioning of his ability. Rossi has moved from the "very nice factory Yamaha" and he looks not better than average, so there is no reason to believe he is still a cut above Lorenzo like he once was. Quit living in the past and get with the times

J4rn0 said:

Can Rossi win again? Winning a title, for any rider, is always 30% skill, 30% bike and 30% psycho-physical fitness (and the last, critical 10% is luck). Imo, on the right bike (for him) Rossi can still compete at the top against Stoner and Lorenzo & C., but that will depend (30%...) on how the 2012 Ducati will suit him (the GP12 we know, now being raced as the GP11.1, will be scrapped at the end of this season).



The GP12.2 could even be competitive, since it will have a new frame, new gearbox, new engine, but surely it will suffer for lack of testing time since it will be debuted only at Valencia and will be, well, new... !



The last thing Rossi needed in the last years of his career was a new bike to develop from scratch -- he doesn't have that kind of time, really. He already wasted 2010. 2011 is another wasted season for him. He's now going to be 33, and he's going to ride a totally new bike... So it could well happen that Rossi doesn't win another title. Or another race, even (but it can always rain).



He's not going to kill himself because of that, he's won enough, but personally I would like to see him dueling with Stoner for another couple of years. He needs the right bike to do that. He would probably be second, but that would be fair at the end of his career and at the beginning of the Stoner era. It would also be the right way to crown Stoner as the new King. We should not be deprived of that last confrontation.



We need Rossi back...

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Agree. He's suffered enough.

I prefer him being the target of Jum's vitriol 'cause there's a certain logic to it all and I agree with 99%.

And I enjoy his epigraphs. Much better than having him going after his new target... Stoner. Before you

know it Jum and Talps will form a partnership with Nino, and then everything will go to hell.

Keshav said:

Agree. He's suffered enough.

I prefer him being the target of Jum's vitriol 'cause there's a certain logic to it all and I agree with 99%.

And I enjoy his epigraphs. Much better than having him going after his new target... Stoner. Before you

know it Jum and Talps will form a partnership with Nino, and then everything will go to hell.

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In fact it's more likely that the Ducati wins with Rossi on the dry, before that happens... So there's some hope for the forum.

Tom said:

Rossi is great, but that does not mean he is immune to time, or questioning of his ability. Rossi has moved from the "very nice factory Yamaha" and he looks not better than average, so there is no reason to believe he is still a cut above Lorenzo like he once was. Quit living in the past and get with the times

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It's not that I live in the past (actually when I predicted a dominant Stoner if he went to Honda, I was apparently living in the future) but you see, it's hard to think that Rossi had such a sudden decline and would not do better that this on a bike that suits him better, Ducati or other...

michaelm said:

As I have said, the learning curve in transferring from the 600s to motogp very much appears as though it will be steep, like 250s to 500s, particularly given that elias won rather well last year, although he admittedly may be a special case of tyre incompatibilty, so waiting for new guys to come through may mean quite a wait.



It seems I am not a rossi hater after all, since I see no reason at all why he wouldn't be still competitive on a more conventional bike. Why such hatred for him anyway?, some of his fans have been fairly over the top, but rossi hasn't really done stoner much ill, and having him back on a competitive bike would make any achievements by stoner or lorenzo the greater.

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What hatred are you talking about micheal? I don't see much hate being posted in this threat?

levigarrett said:

Could have taken the title?? Sure, if Dani wasn't injured this year I guess he technically also "could have taken the title." Any competitor in GP can technically win.



Practically, no way. Rossi will not win a title again any more than Dani was going to beat Casey this year. Lorenzo is the reigning MotoGP champion. It was not a gift, it was absolute precision the complete omission of mistakes.



You may have it any way you like. The next chapter in MotoGP history is being written and Rossi is largely being excluded.

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Yes sure. Rossi was in good position for the title in 2010 just as well as Pedro was this year. Its not like saying that Crutch or RdP could have taken the title technically this year. You know it and everyone knows it. Dont let your hate cloud your posts.