Last hope for Valentino...2012

I was thinking this for a long time... its my theory.



People around Vale and him self knew that it was very risky going to Ducati and the situation was kinda perfect a year ago...thinking about courent position in Yamaha and Stoner on Honda for future. But some of us were still optimistic for this year. The bike was the biggest risk....but 1 year testing while Yama and Honda are getting already too far...is perfect in my theory. Ducati have a great engine and can do the right job...and there is no pressure from teammate... so with the little luck , Rossi can again have equal if not the best bike...to play again with the field and win 1 or 2 championships 2012 onward and retire on a high....



This year's bike is just not capable of winning with Rossi save standards. Maybe Stoner could do it... but im not so sure.

If everything stayed the same i think... it would be again Vale vs Lore.... and Pedrosa would be third. This years bike is just to far away from Yama and Honda.



My point... he kinda knew all that will happen this year... so i think he is focusing just for a next years bike... and with this bike is just his testing year really. 2012 year is imo the last hope for a "suprise" season and a another championship win. He could do it... i hope they will be more equal in 2012 and that the bad performance from Rossi and the bike this year is just that...testisting year for 2012.



Can't imagine 2012 a faliure year for a ducati...like this year,....realy can't. It would be very frustrating for the vale fans and for the whole motogp lovers. And all you can say than is: goodbye Ducati...stick to WSBK.

Next year if he doesnt fight for the atleast podiums... than Ducati is not for him and not for anybody else...Stoner would also say no...im 100%.



So the title could be Last hope for Ducati... but people will miss Vale more



Noone would wannt this...



So lets hope for a great close racing in 2012! Even if Vale doesnt win





PS:Sry for my english (im a selflearner)

I think you are dreaming, if Rossi doesn't get a win in 2011 he is in real trouble by 2012.

2012 could be even worse!

Hoping... not dreaming I hope im right too and we can see Vale up front again next year... i dont think he is gonna win this year... maybe in the wet

Jan Thiel said:

2012 could be even worse!

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Could be a disaster for Vale, Sport... and most for Ducati...

Man unless a "Bradbury" happens (I'll let you do some aussie sport research) LOL thats the only way Vale is going to win a race in 2011 - 2012 doesn't look promising !

They have 2 test days left for the 2012 bike during the season and then 6 days in preseason. Whether they go with a new chassis or try to fix the one they got I don't think it is enough because Honda and Yamaha have more and will not be standing still.



2012 will be a right off for Rossi unless the leverage being applied to Bridgestone to make a tyre that suits Rossi's Ducati bears big fruit by slowing down the competition whilst giving Rossi the advantage he needs.



Maybe Dorna will tell Ducati they are going to a one make series in 2013 unless they allow Rossi to switch mid season to a Marlboro sponsored RC213V.

I wouldn't abandon all hope just yet McKnez. Next year, the extra cc's and, much more importantly the tires, might lift the Ducati up relative to their competitors. The machine might also become less fickle with Bridgestone fronts that are easier to get working. I don't think they'll get to the level of Honda and Yamaha, but they may improve and become more stable. If that happens, and Rossi manages to keep his head until then, podiums and occasional wins will be possible again.



I think another championship is pretty much out of the question, unless a) the Ducati becomes significantly better than the other bikes or Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa all get injured. At this point in time, I don't think Rossi could defeat those guys, especially Stoner and Lorenzo for a championship, even if he were on equal (Japanese) machinery.

stiefel said:

At this point in time, I don't think Rossi could defeat those guys, especially Stoner and Lorenzo for a championship, even if he were on equal (Japanese) machinery.

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I think it will be hard for him to win another championship on a ducati, unless they do get the carbon fibre thing going as an advance on current technology.



I don't think it is at all clear rossi would be beaten on a japanese bike, particularly by pedrosa (in more than the odd race) over whom he has always had the wood. As recently as the qatar race last year he still looked to have some margin over lorenzo on a yamaha as well. In my biased opinion stoner would beat him on the honda as currently configured in terms of power delivery etc, but he might very well develop it into something more suited to him on which he could beat stoner.

Supposedly, they still dont know what direction they are going in 2012 . I would be surprised if they were any more competitive next year than they are this year. They are lost in the woods and have reached that point where you ask yourself, do i keep on this path, hoping that right around the next bend is salvation, do i backtrack and head to familiar ground, or do i take a new path all together. They are standing in the fork of the trail and have yet to make a decision.Personally, , i think they have made a decision, and this years testing will have been for naught, which will put them behind the 8 ball for next year.

michaelm said:

I think it will be hard for him to win another championship on a ducati, unless they do get the carbon fibre thing going as an advance on current technology.



I don't think it is at all clear rossi would be beaten on a japanese bike, particularly by pedrosa (in more than the odd race) over whom he has always had the wood. As recently as the qatar race last year he still looked to have some margin over lorenzo on a yamaha as well. In my biased opinion stoner would beat him on the honda as currently configured in terms of power delivery etc, but he might very well develop it into something more suited to him on which he could beat stoner.

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It is of course only a gut feeling, and I wouldn't go out on a limp for Pedrosa over Rossi at the moment either. But overall, I have the feeling that Stoner and Lorenzo have the measure of Rossi. Disclaimer for the yellow horde: I'm talking about this particular point in time and the immediate future.



Rossi just doesn't look like he is riding his heart out anymore. He his making misstakes and he looks dejected. It wil be very, very hard to fully recover from that mentally, even on a competitive bike. Meanwhile, Stoner and Lorenzo are at the peak of their careers. I've been a fan of Stoner since his 250 days, but I never knew until this year just how good he could be. But don't write off Lorenzo either, that guy is one tough, talented cookie.

Valentino isn't getting any faster, fitter, smarter or more motivated at this point in his career (i'm not counting the motivational slump Rossi seems to be currently in as i believe it to be a short term extreme blip). Rossi of 04 is not the current Rossi. If he wants to get the better or Lorenzo or Stoner again he will need superior equipment.

McKneZ said:

I was thinking this for a long time... its my theory.



People around Vale and him self knew that it was very risky going to Ducati and the situation was kinda perfect a year ago...thinking about courent position in Yamaha and Stoner on Honda for future. But some of us were still optimistic for this year. The bike was the biggest risk....but 1 year testing while Yama and Honda are getting already too far...is perfect in my theory. Ducati have a great engine and can do the right job...and there is no pressure from teammate... so with the little luck , Rossi can again have equal if not the best bike...to play again with the field and win 1 or 2 championships 2012 onward and retire on a high....



This year's bike is just not capable of winning with Rossi save standards. Maybe Stoner could do it... but im not so sure.

If everything stayed the same i think... it would be again Vale vs Lore.... and Pedrosa would be third. This years bike is just to far away from Yama and Honda.



My point... he kinda knew all that will happen this year... so i think he is focusing just for a next years bike... and with this bike is just his testing year really. 2012 year is imo the last hope for a "suprise" season and a another championship win. He could do it... i hope they will be more equal in 2012 and that the bad performance from Rossi and the bike this year is just that...testisting year for 2012.



Can't imagine 2012 a faliure year for a ducati...like this year,....realy can't. It would be very frustrating for the vale fans and for the whole motogp lovers. And all you can say than is: goodbye Ducati...stick to WSBK.

Next year if he doesnt fight for the atleast podiums... than Ducati is not for him and not for anybody else...Stoner would also say no...im 100%.



So the title could be Last hope for Ducati... but people will miss Vale more

Noone would wannt this...



So lets hope for a great close racing in 2012! Even if Vale doesnt win

PS:Sry for my english (im a selflearner)

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I don't think for one second that Rossi "knew all that will happen this year." To infer that is simple revisionist history. There is no chance that Rossi, his team or his fans had any idea of how thoroughly he would be beaten by the competition this year. A cursory search of this forum from about a year ago bears witness to that. There were many predicting success. Some of his team members famously hinted that the Ducati was simply not properly set up and that once he arrived, they'd sort the bike and he'd be immediately competitive. Not only has that not happened, IT'S BEEN FAR WORSE THAN IMAGINED!



Not only has Stoner taken to the Honda, he's been almost unstoppable on it. Rossi and Ducati are in the wilderness and they're hinting at a total reinvention of the machine. I can't fathom a scenario whereby Ducati remakes the machine from the ground up (save powerplant) and shows up at Qatar in 2012 ready to take on Stoner and Lorenzo on their 1000cc machines. As Ducati struggles, Honda, Yamaha and even Suzuki appear to be distancing themselves more and more each weekend. Rossi would need to make huge gains while the others either remain static or lose ground, I don't see that happening.



Secondly, I think the majority of the non-Rossi fan club are already firmly adjusted to the realities that MotoGP is moving away from Valentino Rossi. His decade of dominance is over, there are new players and the sport is moving on. He'll always be remembered and revered for what he's accomplished but I don't think any of us will be terribly disappointed if he doesn't challenge for another MotoGP title. The Bopp's will either flee the sport or move on to Simocelli, in either case, the sport will go on unabated. Rossi is a legend and always will be. Legends however are typically unceremoniously ushered into retirement by their age and the youth that usurp them.



I think Rossi is perfectly capable of occasionally challenging for wins and podiums on the right machine. I don't see him having the access to such a machine any time soon. Should Ducati makes significant strides, we'll see Rossi on some podiums next season. I don't think Rossi is capable of consistently winning races against Stoner, Lorenzo (who's already beaten him on equal terms) or Pedrosa. Sprinkle in a little Ben Speez and I think Rossi's odds are even worse.



Rossi had his decade. I don't think anyone will equal his accomplishments. I also don't think we'll ever see that side of him again.

levigarrett said:

Lorenzo (who's already beaten him on equal terms) or Pedrosa.

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like the famous saying :'if you repeat a lie enough times, people (dumb ones I guess) will strat to believe its the truth'



How exactely Lorenzo beat him on the same terms? in 2008 and 2009 Rossi swept the floor with Lorenzo. In 2010 they had only 3 races until Rossi broke his leg, with 1 win for Rossi, 2 wins for Lorenzo. I dont think that qualifies for 'beat him on same terms'. You agree that if Rossi did not get injured he could have taken the tiltle for 2010.

Evolution said:

like the famous saying :'if you repeat a lie enough times, people (dumb ones I guess) will strat to believe its the truth'



How exactely Lorenzo beat him on the same terms? in 2008 and 2009 Rossi swept the floor with Lorenzo. In 2010 they had only 3 races until Rossi broke his leg, with 1 win for Rossi, 2 wins for Lorenzo. I dont think that qualifies for 'beat him on same terms'. You agree that if Rossi did not get injured he could have taken the tiltle for 2010.

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Could have taken the title?? Sure, if Dani wasn't injured this year I guess he technically also "could have taken the title." Any competitor in GP can technically win.



Practically, no way. Rossi will not win a title again any more than Dani was going to beat Casey this year. Lorenzo is the reigning MotoGP champion. It was not a gift, it was absolute precision the complete omission of mistakes.



You may have it any way you like. The next chapter in MotoGP history is being written and Rossi is largely being excluded.

Ah, the asterisk championships raises its ugly head again. Lets put an asterisk beside 2006, i think Capi MIGHT have won the title that year. Lets put another beside 2008- 2009 -2010, injuries affected all of those championships that someone else MIGHT have won. For that matter, lets put an asterisk beside this years since Rossi is not on a competitive bike. You can asterisk any season, any champion for any reason if your inclined to think that way, but thats not the reality of racing. .... happens, and Rossi has been the benefactor more often than not of other riders misfortune

im pinning my hopes on the new bike next year. its not out of the question that this company could make a frame that works, and if they do and if vale can also just keep his head together for the rest of the year and not get too down in the dumps, he could be a front runner still. like he said, he didnt get .... overnight



and on top of that, can you imagine what his will to win will be like if he gets on this new bike and it works? i think we could see the old 990 valentino come back out, block passes aplenty and just smashing his way to the front of the pack. dont forget the man is not a pushover, when he's working properly, he is a cold and calculating racer.

Rossi will win a title for Ducati....for sure.



2013 WSBK.

Evolution said:

like the famous saying :'if you repeat a lie enough times, people (dumb ones I guess) will strat to believe its the truth'



How exactely Lorenzo beat him on the same terms? in 2008 and 2009 Rossi swept the floor with Lorenzo. In 2010 they had only 3 races until Rossi broke his leg, with 1 win for Rossi, 2 wins for Lorenzo. I dont think that qualifies for 'beat him on same terms'. You agree that if Rossi did not get injured he could have taken the tiltle for 2010.

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To quote Hoppa

"Coulda,woulda,shoulda counts for nothing in motogp"

FTE217 said:

Man unless a "Bradbury" happens (I'll let you do some aussie sport research) LOL thats the only way Vale is going to win a race in 2011 - 2012 doesn't look promising !

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Looking at it dispassionately, I do not think a win this year should be out of the question. The latter half of the season coincides with when Stoner went on a successful run last year and had a few good wins. So given a bit more improvement on the ducati between now and then, one could reasonably assume Rossi/Hayden should be at least fighting for a podium in Aragon, Sepang or more specifically in Phillip Island.



If you look at the absolute dominance of Stoner/Ducati at PI last year (even Hayden was competitive), you would have to think that with some more development between now and then, given the way the Ducati suits that track so well, Rossi & crew must have penciled that one in early in the year as a real opportunity to score a big result (ie, snag a win), and failing any further development steps, they should at least default to a real podium chance. Obviously Stoner suits the track quite well as well, so would probably stand between Rossi and a surprise win, all things being normal.



Given the way the season has gone thus far, they obviously would be reluctant to talk up their chances until they get there and confirm their performance, but I for one would think it's not unreasonable to be expecting big things from both ducati riders at that round.