Laguna Seca - Race discussion

Rossi was playing mind games & trying to stuff up Stoner's race. Stoner was light years faster all race weekend and Rossi knew he couldn't hope to lap at Stoner's pace. He knew Stoner would clear off given any opportunity and win again! Personally I'm glad he had the courage and conviction to make a stand against Rossi, he has been getting away with it for far too long and its really not acceptable.

Rossi regularly makes dirty passes in forcing other riders to pick up their bikes mid turn, often with contact or the high risk of a crash if they don't let him through. This is no co-incidence and Rossi obviously does this on purpose. If he is so talented & fast, he should surely be able to make clean passing moves. I don't agree this is 'good hard racing', actually its dangerous and totally unnecessary.

MotoGP should have put an end to this cheap Rossi tactic back when he stuffed up Gibernau (a few seasons ago - forget the GP but it was infamous and Seti was psychologicially scarred for life after it). That was a totally inappropriate pass on the final corner to take 'victory' when Gibernau had dominated the race and been the fastest rider. Rossi's only way to pass was to 'bang farings and elbow him'. Anyone who thinks that's cool or fair should go watch boxing. I'd be the first to jump in the ring and smack Rossi out!

Well i was going to quietly ignore some of these posts but im too raged by some of them to just pass it by.

First of all. Rossi did not make "dirty passes" Rossi stuck to and followed a clean but tight racing lining the entire race, the only exception for this was when he ran a little wide into corkscrew having to use up some of the dirt and amazingly bring it back onto the track, OK given it forced stoner a little wide but it did not at all hinder Stoner's race in the slightest. He soon closed that gap straight back up, that is , if the move even did open a gap which i highly doubt, if anything it should of slowed Rossi down.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't agree this is 'good hard racing', actually its dangerous and totally unnecessary.

Go watch golf....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
Anyone who thinks that's cool or fair should go watch boxing. I'd be the first to jump in the ring and smack Rossi out!

You might be the first to jump in the ring but i could guarantee you'd be the last one out considering the absolute army of rossi fans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dannyisnow @ Jul 27 2008, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well i was going to quietly ignore some of these posts but im too raged by some of them to just pass it by.

First of all. Rossi did not make "dirty passes" Rossi stuck to and followed a clean but tight racing lining the entire race, the only exception for this was when he ran a little wide into corkscrew having to use up some of the dirt and amazingly bring it back onto the track, OK given it forced stoner a little wide but it did not at all hinder Stoner's race in the slightest. He soon closed that gap straight back up, that is , if the move even did open a gap which i highly doubt, if anything it should of slowed Rossi down.



Go watch golf....



You might be the first to jump in the ring but i could guarantee you'd be the last one out considering the absolute army of rossi fans

I'll have Max hold my towel in the corner, that will be motivation enough!

I've no problem with Rossi winning a race if he makes a clean passing move. I have a real problem with him stuffing up the lines of faster riders & making them pick up their bikes mid-turn to let him through on purpose. That is just crap riding. I enjoy a battle as much as the next rider but I don't like seeing the fastest, smoothest rider get screwed up by someone who can't lap at their pace and has to resort to cheap tacticst to be competitive.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 09:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I've no problem with Rossi winning a race if he makes a clean passing move. I have a real problem with him stuffing up the lines of faster riders & making them pick up their bikes mid-turn to let him through on purpose. That is just crap riding. I enjoy a battle as much as the next rider but I don't like seeing the fastest, smoothest rider get screwed up by someone who can't lap at their pace and has to resort to cheap tacticst to be competitive.


Im afraid I cant agree with your accusations. A lot of times its absolutely necessary to alter your lines and take to the inside of a corner this is called racing. Rossi being an absolute genius at this. This is probably happening a lot more than you realise in moto gp the trouble is its usually in the middle of the pack not getting so much coverage. I think alot of people will agree with the exception of some races this season, the racing in general tends to be further down the field not so much up front any more.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 26 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>it is so funny that it is a one way thing for VR fans. Most of them just don't care what he says just that he wins. .... if he told you to drink the poison infested kool aid I am sure most would do it without question.

Is it just me or what. I can't get those two sentenses to hang together at all.
We don't care what he says, but we would do anything he says? Me very confused.

Anyway, it was quite expected that Istanbul would come back when people start talking about Stoner's whiging, just surpriced it didn't come before. And when it arrives the whole pack (that can't even remember it) throw themselves on it. THATS funny. And looking back we allready have the full 10 pages + about how Rossi where whinging. And now you have a go at it again to divert from your own guys behaviour. That's repetition.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Rossi was playing mind games & trying to stuff up Stoner's race. Stoner was light years faster all race weekend and Rossi knew he couldn't hope to lap at Stoner's pace. He knew Stoner would clear off given any opportunity and win again! Personally I'm glad he had the courage and conviction to make a stand against Rossi, he has been getting away with it for far too long and its really not acceptable.

Rossi regularly makes dirty passes in forcing other riders to pick up their bikes mid turn, often with contact or the high risk of a crash if they don't let him through. This is no co-incidence and Rossi obviously does this on purpose. If he is so talented & fast, he should surely be able to make clean passing moves. I don't agree this is 'good hard racing', actually its dangerous and totally unnecessary.

MotoGP should have put an end to this cheap Rossi tactic back when he stuffed up Gibernau (a few seasons ago - forget the GP but it was infamous and Seti was psychologicially scarred for life after it). That was a totally inappropriate pass on the final corner to take 'victory' when Gibernau had dominated the race and been the fastest rider. Rossi's only way to pass was to 'bang farings and elbow him'. Anyone who thinks that's cool or fair should go watch boxing. I'd be the first to jump in the ring and smack Rossi out!

I guess you show bias rather than ignorance here. Let's expell all those bashing fairings and start with the race at LC. No one but Stoner is out as he was the only one making contact that race. Humm.
Maybe we should give him pardon as he also avoided some paint swaping down the crock screw.
What do you think?

It's racing - we should forgive them both.

Even if we declare someone guilty and by plebiscite or what the .... ever every knob end inhabiting the inter ....... net agrees they wont hang them.

Casey lost the race and you .......s are still complaining, was Godzilla supposed to appear and ....... eat him because he upset you. What a bunch of piffs you all are.

This was the best race of year and out of this I’ve worked out two things and I call this the motogp paradigm or “the theory of inverse fan and rider proportionality”.

Rossi is the toughest ............ on a motorcycle but male ballet dancers and figure skaters must talk about how gay his fans are.

I like Rossi but I’m afraid to say I’m a Rossi fan in fear of suddenly developing ....... and a bunch of other feminine characteristics.

Stoner can be a bit whiney but his fans would not complain this much when their rider won.

Piffs piffs piffs and even more piffs wearing the number 46 – a great rider but now the international brand for a piff.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>If he is so talented & fast, he should surely be able to make clean passing moves.

when did motogp became just about the riders?

aren't we in agreement that this sport is a TEAM sport? the rider, the bike, the people who work behind them...surely being talented and fast are not just the ingredients to win races and world championships.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 27 2008, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>when did motogp became just about the riders?

aren't we in agreement that this sport is a TEAM sport? the rider, the bike, the people who work behind them...surely being talented and fast are not just the ingredients to win races and world championships.


I accept the satire evident in this post but I must add - It helps (riding fast)

Rossi - Lorenzo same bike - Rossi is leading and they are writing chapters in orthopaedic surgery about Lorenzo.

Same as Casey and Marco (aka "the rev limiter").

I think a rider still makes a significant difference.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 27 2008, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think a rider still makes a significant difference.

i get your point

however, the poster whom i quoted seemed to state that "if he's so and so he should be able to so and so" as if they're the only things needed to make you blast through the chequered flag, or make clean moves as he stated.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jul 27 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i get your point

however, the poster whom i quoted seemed to state that "if he's so and so he should be able to so and so" as if they're the only things needed to make you blast through the chequered flag, or make clean moves as he stated.

Having read back I offer my unreserved and most humble apology.

mea maxima culpa.

Roo.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 27 2008, 07:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Having read back I offer my unreserved and most humble apology.

mea maxima culpa.

Roo.

no worries.

we read through thousands of posts so it's no wonder we get something wrong sometimes.

@ AB#!
May be the comment from Michael Doohan brings some light to u.
--
What happened between Rossi and Stoner at Laguna Seca is not surprising, is a normal thing. The fight on the track and off is part of this game," word of Mick Doohan, one of the legends of Grand Prix motorcycle racing. The former Australian pilot, five times world champion in the 500 with Honda, struggles on the track has experienced many, for more with flowers flowers of samples as Rainey, Schwantz, Gardner and company.

The duel the borderline between Rossi and Stoner at Laguna falls within the logic of this sport. Do not be surprised if there are other controversies between them if the gap in the standings will be reduced, this will make things even more interesting out of the runway.

"I saw the race, but it is impossible to say who between the two was right or wrong. ” Only Casey and Valentino knows "

www.smh.com.au

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (johnny @ Jul 27 2008, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Doohan plays down Rossi/Stoner row

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/Doohan+...ossi+Stoner+row

as did Shwantz ...... when asked about Casey's comments ... he suggested something to the effect that ....."they are just words, used to happen all the time .... he didn't slug him"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Jul 27 2008, 01:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It's racing - we should forgive them both.

If there is anything to forgive at all, absolutly.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Stoner can be a bit whiney but his fans would not complain this much when their rider won.

I'll take that on your relative fresh membership. I've seen nothing like it. Even when he won the title this forums Stoner fans sounded worse than the combined whinging of the whole MotoGp depot.
It was nothing about joy for the victory, only bickering about Rossi and Rossi fans and how nobody acknowledged his ability. Really disapointing.
I'm not one of those complaining about Stoner's post race comments, only a bit sorry he doesn't enjoyed the fight more. Maybe it was becuase of the huge disapoinment he couldn't enjoy it.

As others have said: We are lucky the see this fight unfold between one of the gratest and the one aspiering to take over the crown.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 26 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You really are a piece of work.
You can create your own definition of what paint swapping are but you definatly have no idea of what goes on in racing in Europe. I’ve been around a bit here from everyting from national series, multi national series racing and european series and WSS as team memeber at a few times. There is nothing in my experiences that indicate any similarity to your aincient expereinces.
BSB are well known for lots of contact but that’s only because the sereis is better known. IDM in germany and other national series and EC are just as tough and the riders learn to cope with it. Doesn’t matter if they like it or not but it helps of course if you enjoy it. I notice you continously create your own definition of what paint swapping is. It doesn't have to be banging into each other. More often it is two riders wanting the same space and they clinch into each other. Nobody wants to yeield and the resault is contact.
Nice trick defineing anything outside this years as redundant history as long as we talk about current racers on the grid but it doesn't give any more validity to your argument. Some racers out there enjoy a close fight, with or without contact, stoner doesn't. And that's what confuse me here because he was the only one to initiate the one contact that happened out there.

I'm not talking about "close racing". I am talking about racing out of control and making contact with another rider. Yes - racing is supposed to be risky - but despite what all the bloodlust fans want to think - it's not a contact sport. Everyone in the sport accepts that unintentional contact occurs - but it is never acceptable to consciously initiate contact. It's Grand Prix racing - not a demolition derby.

[quote name='dannyisnow' date='Jul 27 2008, 05:42 AM' post='142173']
Well i was going to quietly ignore some of these posts but im too raged by some of them to just pass it by.

First of all. Rossi did not make "dirty passes" Rossi stuck to and followed a clean but tight racing lining the entire race, the only exception for this was when he ran a little wide into corkscrew having to use up some of the dirt and amazingly bring it back onto the track, OK given it forced stoner a little wide but it did not at all hinder Stoner's race in the slightest. He soon closed that gap straight back up, that is , if the move even did open a gap which i highly doubt, if anything it should of slowed Rossi down.



Go watch golf....


Spoken like a true, beer-soaked soccer (oops I mean "football") fan. FYI info - a lot of top riders have found the sport that most prepares them mentally for the challenge of GP racing . . . is (you guessed it) <u>golf</u>. This is something that goes back to the days of Robers, Spencer, Lawson and continues to the current batch of riders. Real racing is about tactics, and developing a calmer mind-set that leads to a controlled, clean, pass. Neanderthals that crave the sight of machines banging together have arenas for just that . . . they're called demolition derbies and monster truck shows. For the pathetically desperate ones - there's always NASCAR.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AB#1 @ Jul 27 2008, 03:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...
. I enjoy a battle as much as the next rider but I don't like seeing the fastest, smoothest rider get screwed up by someone who can't lap at their pace and has to resort to cheap tacticst to be competitive.
Who? What (who) is your definition of "the fastest, smoothest rider" ? To get that award, it's definitively not only the rider himself,but also the bike,the mechanic and all the team work. Before Catalunya, people might said that it was Rossi (Yamaha did their homework during their winter)..after Catalunya, then Stoner (Ducati did well with their electronics), and after the break, it could be Pedrosa. And so on.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 27 2008, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spoken like a true, beer-soaked soccer (oops I mean "football") fan. FYI info - a lot of top riders have found the sport that most prepares them mentally for the challenge of GP racing . . . is (you guessed it) <u>golf</u>. This is something that goes back to the days of Robers, Spencer, Lawson and continues to the current batch of riders. Real racing is about tactics, and developing a calmer mind-set that leads to a controlled, clean, pass. Neanderthals that crave the sight of machines banging together have arenas for just that . . . they're called demolition derbies and monster truck shows. For the pathetically desperate ones - there's always NASCAR.


Well you got the beer soaked bit right..Not so sure about the football part, cant stand the sport but your quite right in what you say about golf, I myself am an avid fisherman and can completely appreciate the mindset that comes with that type of activity (the remark I made was purely in jest.. I was under the impression a bit of light hearted humour never hurt anyone nowadays ).


You obviously didnt read my post very well, I never mentioned anything about "Neanderthals that crave the sight of machine banging together" The last thing i condone is bikes clashing, they have nimble light panels for a reason. If they were built to clash they would be big bulky things. Taking to the inside or taking a dangerous line which will cause the other rider to clash is not acceptable. Theres a difference between this and taking a clean but tight racing line

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dannyisnow @ Jul 27 2008, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well you got the beer soaked bit right..Not so sure about the football part, cant stand the sport but your quite right in what you say about golf, I myself am an avid fisherman and can completely appreciate the mindset that comes with that type of activity (the remark I made was purely in jest.. I was under the impression a bit of light hearted humour never hurt anyone nowadays ).


You obviously didnt read my post very well, I never mentioned anything about "Neanderthals that crave the sight of machine banging together" The last thing i condone is bikes clashing, they have nimble light panels for a reason. If they were built to clash they would be big bulky things. Taking to the inside or taking a dangerous line which will cause the other rider to clash is not acceptable. Theres a difference between this and taking a clean but tight racing line

Mayhaps there's some confusion here. I was responding the "Go watch golf" rejoinder. I've gotten really tired of all the goonsmack WWF wrestling mentality that some fans bring to this sport. Moto GP is the king of racing and it really is elite stuff; ballsy yes - but really refined compared to other forms of racing. There's a lot of folks on this forum who really would do better going to watch the antics at a dirt oval. That's where the real cowboys are. Much more about balls than brains. Actually, it's a shame there aren't regular broadcasts of dirt track races.