Jeremy Burgess Interview

Nino said:

People on here talking like Rossi has been at Ducati for years ffs

.



Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.



Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati

.

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Yes, and that is NO different than some saying Stoner had a power and tire advantage in 07.

povol said:

So let me get this straight, your saying that if Ducati abandons their developmental direction, and builds a YamaDuc, you will hold on to the fantasy that Ducati would have done the same for Stoner. That is funny.



The biggest thing the Italians have to get over, is the embarrassment of having to copy the Japanese. Im not sure their elitist clientele would ever be able to live it down.

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YamaDuc?



Vittoriano Guareschi:



“Jerry gives me ease of mind. Generally there’s serenity: we just need to improve our bike, not turn it into a copy of the Yamaha.”



http://www.grandprix-center.com/?p=4067

Rossi is not a riding alien (and never was), he's just an above average rider. Ok, actually he has an excellent racing reading, but he is only a true alien on how to transform a bike into a near perfect machine. That is why his nickname is "The Doctor".



We shouldn't wait Rossi to ride the current D16 like Stoner, but we must wait (and hope) he will apply his REAL skill into action helping (issuing instructions) Ducati to build a very easy-to-ride bike. Unfortunately this will take some time, but I'm sure he will have success by the mid of the year.



Stoner IS a riding alien, but to be so, he needs to infect the bike with his uniques needs, preventing other common riders to ride ok.



I would bet a burden of Budweiser with Jumkie that Stoner will mess the Honda in a few years (turning the bike into a machine only him can ride), but unfortunately he wouldn't pay me the shipping to Brazil.

BHarvey said:

Yes, and that is NO different than some saying Stoner had a power and tire advantage in 07.

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Every modern world champion needs to have some kind of advantage. Stoner had, Rossi had (a lot), Lorenzo had, Hayden had, and etc...

gui22a said:

Every modern world champion needs to have some kind of advantage. Stoner had, Rossi had (a lot), Lorenzo had, Hayden had, and etc...

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EXACTLY!

Nino said:

People on here talking like Rossi has been at Ducati for years ffs

.



Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.

Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati

.

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I guess you forgot he won the C-ship on it in 07. Was instantly fast on it from the word go till the day he left for Honda. I am simply amazed at how you look at things thru rose colored glasses with black side blinders. Keep in mind this is motorcycle racing, not Horse. You might wanna try taking the blinder off. Didnt Rossi said in his book; he choose yamaha over Ducati because he found Ducati operations to be like Honda.. Let me break that bit down for you. Rossi wants to go where he has the final word!!! What happened when that stopped happening a yamaha?? I guess you know the answer to that........



Stoner is the ultimate puppet master. He took a substandard bike and make it a winner. Rossi now out of options, runs to Ducati because, he sees himself as a better rider than Stoner. And if Stoner can win on the Ducati so can Rossi in Rossi's mind. That's where FANTASY end & reality sets in. Every rider since Stoner has complained about the lack of feedback to the rider. But because of the Casey performance all was ignored. Enter Rossi & Burgess & things suddenly starts to change. Why??....................... 9 time world champ cant get the bike to work! Can you say egg in the face.... Accept the fact that the bike is flawed or, send the 9 time wold champ to see a shrink.

























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evo9 said:

I guess you forgot he won the C-ship on it in 07. Was instantly fast on it from the word go till the day he left for Honda. I am simply amazed at how you look at things thru rose colored glasses with black side blinders. Keep in mind this is motorcycle racing, not Horse. You might wanna try taking the blinder off. Didnt Rossi said in his book; he choose yamaha over Ducati because he found Ducati operations to be like Honda.. Let me break that bit down for you. Rossi wants to go where he has the final word!!! What happened when that stopped happening a yamaha?? I guess you know the answer to that........



Stoner is the ultimate puppet master. He took a substandard bike and make it a winner. Rossi now out of options, runs to Ducati because, he sees himself as a better rider than Stoner. And if Stoner can win on the Ducati so can Rossi in Rossi's mind. That's where FANTASY end & reality sets in. Every rider since Stoner has complained about the lack of feedback to the rider. But because of the Casey performance all was ignored. Enter Rossi & Burgess & things suddenly starts to change. Why??....................... 9 time world champ cant get the bike to work! Can you say egg in the face.... Accept the fact that the bike is flawed or, send the 9 time wold champ to see a shrink.

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Two good years, two poor years.



Can you say declining performances?

Nino said:

Two good years, two poor years.



Can you say declining performances?

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Switch from steel trellis to carbon fibre perhaps? The carbon subframe wasn't exactly Stoner's idea and its introduction fits nicely into your perception of his career at Ducati. From current struggles with the GP11 it looks like we've got independent confirmation that the bike has been/is a pig to ride. Are you proposing that the carbon subframe has been an improvement on the 2007 steel frame based on results?



For mine its disingenious to say Stoner/Hayden were unable to improve the bike in 4 years when they had 2 years with the steel frame/screamer bike and 2 years with the carbon/big bang bike. They effectively started from scratch half way through and, based on post-Aragon 2010 results, did manage to get the GP10 to be decently fast for Hayden in the end. The development now appears to have stalled (see Hayden's times) while the Jap bikes have improved and there is no longer a #1 rider who can put in times significantly faster than Hayden/satellite bikes (everyone can assign their own split of shoulder vs. style for Rossi's lack of pace). Both have to change before we see more Ducati podiums, and they need to be big changes.

Nino said:

YamaDuc?



Vittoriano Guareschi:



“Jerry gives me ease of mind. Generally there’s serenity: we just need to improve our bike, not turn it into a copy of the Yamaha.”



http://www.grandprix-center.com/?p=4067

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And of course everyone is expected to swallow hook, line and sinker - every piece of P.R. fluff

they read - simply because it appears on the internet.



The Italians have been subtly and not so subtly been "borrowing" Japanese technology and

esthetic concepts in order to make their bikes more palatable for years. Most especially

the race-style ones. Every time they put out a bike that veers 180 degrees away from

more traditional Japanese race-bike esthetics they end up making ugly monstrosities.

Nino said:

Two good years, two poor years.



Can you say declining performances?

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You are one hopless human..................... You must have been a social outcast when you were child/teen.



I guess you could have done BETTER than Casey or any other rider.









\

armco said:

Switch from steel trellis to carbon fibre perhaps? The carbon subframe wasn't exactly Stoner's idea and its introduction fits nicely into your perception of his career at Ducati. From current struggles with the GP11 it looks like we've got independent confirmation that the bike has been/is a pig to ride. Are you proposing that the carbon subframe has been an improvement on the 2007 steel frame based on results?



For mine its disingenious to say Stoner/Hayden were unable to improve the bike in 4 years when they had 2 years with the steel frame/screamer bike and 2 years with the carbon/big bang bike. They effectively started from scratch half way through and, based on post-Aragon 2010 results, did manage to get the GP10 to be decently fast for Hayden in the end. The development now appears to have stalled (see Hayden's times) while the Jap bikes have improved and there is no longer a #1 rider who can put in times significantly faster than Hayden/satellite bikes (everyone can assign their own split of shoulder vs. style for Rossi's lack of pace). Both have to change before we see more Ducati podiums, and they need to be big changes.

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The difference is I guess, is that the GP11 will actually improve - because they now have a rider who will be able to give specific feedback to the engineers. There's no doubt they're struggling at the moment though.

evo9 said:

You are one hopless human..................... You must have been a social outcast when you were child/teen.



I guess you could have done BETTER than Casey or any other rider.

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By outcast, you mean I wasn't creaming myself when Stoner won the title in 2007? You're right, it was more akin to polite applause .

Nino said:

Two good years, two poor years.



Can you say declining performances?

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Rossi did well in 04 and 05, or two good years.



Followed by two bad years in 06/07.



Can you say, declining performance?

Nino said:

YamaDuc?



Vittoriano Guareschi:



“Jerry gives me ease of mind. Generally there’s serenity: we just need to improve our bike, not turn it into a copy of the Yamaha.”



http://www.grandprix-center.com/?p=4067

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That quote was before Sepang and Qatar, where they kept falling further and further behind. If you read the article, you had to have seen this quote also



“Based on Valentino’s comments, it seems unnecessary to radically change the project,” said Preziosi. “However, we are ready to do it, should it become necessary.”



Guess what, its looking like it is becoming necessary

Nino said:

The difference is I guess, is that the GP11 will actually improve - because they now have a rider who will be able to give specific feedback to the engineers.

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Something like the way the GP10 improved between LeMans and Aragon? Aragon and PI last year are still by far the high points for performance from a carbon Ducati, everything since has been a step backwards (compared to the opposition a big step backwards).



In terms of competitiveness the carbon Ducati hasn't been this far off the pace since early 2009 (if at all). When the stated purpose of the changes are to make the bike more competitive/rideable for more riders and 'a typical rider' (Hayden) is lapping slower than on the Stoner spec bike you have to question the decisions.



If you believe the changes are tuning rather than a complete redesign then we've seen no sign that the changes can offer more than minor performance improvements on the later GP10 and they aren't going to catch the Hondas and Lorenzo without a massive leap. If you believe we really are going to see wholesale changes to the bike then I don't believe Ducati has the resources to get a new design out and to develop it fast enough to matter this year or next, no matter how good the feedback. I wonder what its worth to Dorna to keep Ducatis in the grid, this is veering towards Suzuki territory.

Nino said:

People on here talking like Rossi has been at Ducati for years ffs

.



Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.



Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati

.

Click to expand...

If they fix the ducati this year without a major re-design, your argument will be proven correct, as I have said all along when the argument was being made by more eloquent and knowledgeable people like j4rno, although I don't recall j4rno claiming to be clairvoyant as you seem to be doing. The fact of the matter is that they haven't fixed the ducati yet, and the possibility exists that it is ducati who have gone in the wrong direction. As somebody else has pointed out, I presume you are blaming rossi for the deficiencies of the 2006 yamaha and for ducati having a better bike (by your own argument anyway) in 2007; I personally had attributed the bike problems in 2006 mainly to yamaha, but if you want to attribute this to rossi I am amenable to argument.



You seem to be mixing your argument in any case; ducati's poor performance in 2009 (by 2007 standards if not the historical standards of the team) whilst definitely attributable to casey stoner since it was up to him to be healthy, was not as far as I can see due to any problems with the bike, which was fairly clearly the fastest at the end of the year, or capable of being the fastest with stoner riding it anyway. When they ended up with a clearly dud and probably unstable bike which unfortunately for valentino he has inherited was last year when they decided to develop away from stoner whom I am sure they knew was leaving; he may have acquiesced publicly but why would he have wanted to scrap the screamer for a start?.



A career like rossi's involves many things, great physical and mental strength/determination and the ability to maintain these qualities over many years, as well as skill ( including political skill in making sure you are with the right team, something he has managed up to now) and some luck with injuries although rossi's previous good run with injuries certainly also involved his skill. Stoner has not managed even a 4 year rossi like run as you say, and this can obviously be attributed to him not being able to be as good as rossi in a sustained fashion, which is hardly shameful. If he ends up with 3 or even 2 titles and 35 or so wins he will have had a great career and will have made his fans including me very happy; if this happens and he is remembered as also not being as good a developer as rossi then so be it.

If Casey retired now, I would still remember him as being on a list of riders with insane natural talent and a willingness to push the limit.



This list only includes a few riders but is MY list of riders I thought were the most talented regardless of what the statistics show.



Wayne Rainey

Anthony Gobert

Craig Jones

Casey Stoner

BHarvey said:

If Casey retired now, I would still remember him as being on a list of riders with insane natural talent and a willingness to push the limit.



This list only includes a few riders but is MY list of riders I thought were the most talented regardless of what the statistics show.



Wayne Rainey

Anthony Gobert

Craig Jones

Casey Stoner

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Farck you've missed a few.......



How about



Troy Bayliss

Carl Fogarty

Valentino Rossi

Michael Doohan

Mike Hailwood

Agostini

Kevin Schwantz

Kenny Roberts Snr

Eddie Lawson

Wayne Gardiner

Nori Haga

Ben Spies

Matt Miladin

Jorge Lorenzo

Barry Sheene



None of these factor into your insane natural talent and a willingness to push the limit category????

Talpa said:

Farck you've missed a few.......



How about



Troy Bayliss

Carl Fogarty

Valentino Rossi

Michael Doohan

Mike Hailwood

Agostini

Kevin Schwantz

Kenny Roberts Snr

Eddie Lawson

Wayne Gardiner

Nori Haga

Ben Spies

Matt Miladin

Jorge Lorenzo

Barry Sheene



None of these factor into your insane natural talent and a willingness to push the limit category????

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I have to agree with you (for once ) about a number of the riders in your list. If you leave rainey out of the previous list it could be a list of riders of immense talent who never achieved unquestioned greatness, but rainey can't be on such a list.

gui22a said:

I would bet a burden of Budweiser with Jumkie that Stoner will mess the Honda in a few years (turning the bike into a machine only him can ride), but unfortunately he wouldn't pay me the shipping to Brazil.

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I'm always up for some free beer, so...



Lets be more specific. What do you mean "only he can ride"? How bad will the second Honda rider have to be for you to consider Stoner messed it up?