I agree Jumkie.When Rossi has stopped racing and Stoner still is winning championships in a few years the journalism might be different and after that the race fans will have a different view of what really happened.
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
I agree Jumkie.When Rossi has stopped racing and Stoner still is winning championships in a few years the journalism might be different and after that the race fans will have a different view of what really happened.
Excellent!!
Lets not forget that Losail is Stoners holy grail, even more so than at Philip ISland, where has Peddles been in previous seasons.
I think any percieved advantage Stoner appearrs to have at the moment will be very short lived over the next few tracks, especially at places where Lorenzo & Pedrosa are very good at -
Pedrosa - Jerez, Le Mans
Lorenzo - Jerez, Estoril, Le Mans
I still think Lorenzo will be leading the championchip race by the time the month long break comes after Estoril.
Definitely. Like I said in the race thread, Stoner has been outscored badly at Jerez, Portugal, LeMans, and Catalunya. Lorenzo averages 30 points on Stoner through these 4 rounds, while Rossi and Pedrosa have him covered by about 20 pts per season. If he rides well through the next 2 months, he will be well on his way to the title. If he makes mistakes, he'll be digging his way out of a huge hole.
I agree with j4rno about fitness being crucial to realising the potential of the ducati, it is clear the bike needs to be manhandled, and 2007 whatever other factors operated stoner was healthy for the whole year. When he had the scaphoid injury it impeded him, on some tracks more than others, and he eventually became worn down by the effort required by the bike and the vilification he copped, particularly when he of all people was in a position to know that the bike didn't ride itself.
I think with honda stoner can't really have much impact on the bike itself, but I do notice dani is no longer complaining about the power delivery being too abrupt, so perhaps he may have been concentrating too much on making the bike absolutely perfect in his terms to the detriment of some performance.
And as far as ducati go they actually said in 2007 that because they had concluded that rossi couldn't be outridden, they deliberately designed the 2007 ducati to be ultra fast with little concession to ridability, and hoped someone could ride it. They clearly didn't believe what they themselves had said after stoner rode it with apparent ease ( I do say apparent) in 2007, as evidenced by sending marco melandri to a shrink, and thereafter blamed the riders including, stoner eventually, for the difficulties of the bike.
I think with honda stoner can't really have much impact on the bike itself, but I do notice dani is no longer complaining about the power delivery being too abrupt, so perhaps he may have been concentrating too much on making the bike absolutely perfect in his terms to the detriment of some performance.
And as far as ducati go they actually said in 2007 that because they had concluded that rossi couldn't be outridden, they deliberately designed the 2007 ducati to be ultra fast with little concession to ridability, and hoped someone could ride it. They clearly didn't believe what they themselves had said after stoner rode it with apparent ease ( I do say apparent) in 2007, as evidenced by sending marco melandri to a shrink, and thereafter blamed the riders including, stoner eventually, for the difficulties of the bike.
Absolutely.
Steve: When do you expect the.........
JB: MIDSEASON.
The question wasn't even out of his mouth before JB had it answered. Imo, this Rossi-Burgess deal is much bigger than just "fixing" the Ducati GP. It sounds like Ducati Corse is getting a complete overhaul, and Jeremy Burgess is acting as the operations manager they needed to explain how Japanese prototyping operations work.
If Corse is getting a retooled, it explains why Ducati dropped out of WSBK.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
He has a bike that turns now, i expect his performance will be just fine on these circuits
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2006
- Messages
- 1,832
- Location
- south wales UK
+1
wasnt it stoner who said he had a problem getting the bike to turn in properly at jerez?
if this is the case then rossi's shoulder is going to have a battering so im expecting a qatar result or worse.
im expecting a stoner win here or a podium.... if its tight and alot of stop and go even the yams are gonna struggle against the honda, plus stoner can be quite dangerous when confident... especially after a race win.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,208
- Location
- USA
With that said. You guys remember this bit below?
I bet he will have some Eruo fans shitting bricks thru the next 8 rounds.
.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,208
- Location
- USA
Does this means you have jumped ship to Lorenzo land??
More like 'Commonsenseland'
Yamaha is very strong at the bull ring, as is Jorge if he gets a good start.......
This is exactly the feeling I get from talking to people at Ducati. They're there to help Hayden score podiums, not just get Rossi wins.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,802
- Location
- Tuscany, Italy
Hi Jum,
Since years I'm telling people, on this forum, that the best riders in activity are Rossi and Stoner. Lorenzo, Pedrosa, etc. are great champions but can not match these two.
How do I know? Well I suppose that's just my opinion. So since I have this opinion, it is natural for me thinking that if there is a rider who can do what Rossi does, that's Stoner. And vice-versa. Not that the two are interchangeable -- they have their own peculiarities and different strong and weak points, moreover one is older and one is younger -- but you get what I mean.
Now, if you only could put to rest for a moment your strong anti-Rossi bias, we could really talk. I can understand one can be irritated by Rossi's multitude of ignorant fans, but hey, that's another story altogether. Anyway...
If (if) Rossi is not quickly approaching the end of his career after an unprecedented amount of injuries sustained in 2010, then I think that as soon as the shoulder is OK he'll be able to ride the Ducati. Why? Because he was able to win a title on a 500, for example. The man knows how to ride and so far he has managed to ride anything with two wheels, pretty well.
I remember Valencia. At Valencia he had not been operated yet. After the operation, the shoulder is completely down and then one can only wait for the blessed thing to heal. We'll know the truth soon...
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Messages
- 319
- Location
- London
Good to hear they're not trying to change things too quickly, but rather gain a full understanding of the bike.
Jerez could be tricky for Ducati though. I rekcon there'll be improvements after Estoril though.
Shame the first page of a thread about Burgess and Rossi had to be jumped on by Jumkie and his band of followers
, but tbf that's every thread.
Jerez could be tricky for Ducati though. I rekcon there'll be improvements after Estoril though.
Shame the first page of a thread about Burgess and Rossi had to be jumped on by Jumkie and his band of followers
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Shame the first page of a thread about Burgess and Rossi had to be jumped on by Jumkie and his band of followers, but tbf that's every thread.
Nino, the new Talpa.
Do you have anything to add or would you just like to point out you disagree?
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Hi Jum,
Since years I'm telling people, on this forum, that the best riders in activity are Rossi and Stoner. Lorenzo, Pedrosa, etc. are great champions but can not match these two.
How do I know? Well I suppose that's just my opinion. So since I have this opinion, it is natural for me thinking that if there is a rider who can do what Rossi does, that's Stoner. And vice-versa. Not that the two are interchangeable -- they have their own peculiarities and different strong and weak points, moreover one is older and one is younger -- but you get what I mean.
Now, if you only could put to rest for a moment your strong anti-Rossi bias, we could really talk. I can understand one can be irritated by Rossi's multitude of ignorant fans, but hey, that's another story altogether. Anyway...
If (if) Rossi is not quickly approaching the end of his career after an unprecedented amount of injuries sustained in 2010, then I think that as soon as the shoulder is OK he'll be able to ride the Ducati. Why? Because he was able to win a title on a 500, for example. The man knows how to ride and so far he has managed to ride anything with two wheels, pretty well.
I remember Valencia. At Valencia he had not been operated yet. After the operation, the shoulder is completely down and then one can only wait for the blessed thing to heal. We'll know the truth soon...
Well I guess we both bias, but that's all good brotha. Some good stuff, and a bit of disagreement because of your blind-pro Rossi bias (haha, I threw that in there cuz you say I'm anti-Rossi, but infact I'm just anti-crazy). But you are not crazy, so we actually do cover a bit of substance, unlike ^.
Anyway, um yeah, I see what you are saying about thinking they are both the best. You have good reason. But then again, I have my reasons for believing what we see at face value is not exactly what is truth. How many times have you heard me say GP is not a level playing field? Look, answer me this, if Rossi is struggling on the Ducati, would it then be fair to off-set all the years Stoner was on that pesky machine? If you say no, well we then have a debate. If you say yes, then you do understand the peculiar nature of the competition. Like I said, we judge the riders based on their results ONLY, which is where Rossi has got his legend status. Perhaps deserved, but in my mind, a bit of a caveat. That caveat part is something that has been thee double standard simply not accepted by some Rossi fans.
The interview was interesting for what it didn't tell us in addition to what it attempted to confirm. He says its flawed (is what I understand) since they want to revamp the entire machine. If we are to believe that Rossi is the man you say he is, then all we need to do is wait for his shoulder to get better, no need to rebuilt the bike, right?
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Messages
- 319
- Location
- London
People on here talking like Rossi has been at Ducati for years ffs
.
Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.
Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati
.
Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.
Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
People on here talking like Rossi has been at Ducati for years ffs.
Stoner and Hayden failed to help improve the Ducati over four years, I don't think this will be the same with Rossi.
Of course if he does, the two major Stoner acolytes on here will says it's because Rossi had the ear of Ducati.
So let me get this straight, your saying that if Ducati abandons their developmental direction, and builds a YamaDuc, you will hold on to the fantasy that Ducati would have done the same for Stoner. That is funny.
The biggest thing the Italians have to get over, is the embarrassment of having to copy the Japanese. Im not sure their elitist clientele would ever be able to live it down.
