Is Suzuki Really That Bad?

I've been thinking for some time now what would have happened if VR went to zooki instead of ducati?

This last race confirmed what I've been thinking well sort of and wanted to know what others felt.

Now up until Bautista put the zook in the kitty litter he was on Rossi's coat tails and closing lap by lap, and as most of us are aware its because of the hot conditions as the zook has problems getting heat into it tires.

I really believe that Bautista would have passed Rossi had he not lost it. Just like in Germany where he did both factory dukes at the line.

So what if VR JB and co went to zooki instead?

Ive read on here so many times what a piece of .... the zook is supposed to be but with limited resources can keep up with Ducatti who appear to be turning the world upside down for their machine.

I really believe that if VR and co had gone to zook the heat in the tire problems would have been sorted because they would be working with jap machinery thats familiar to them and they could have done another 04 when they walked into yams garage and turned a joke into world championship winning bike.



Just my opinion whats everyone else think?



Cheers Phill

lil red rocket pilot said:

I've been thinking for some time now what would have happened if VR went to zooki instead of ducati?

This last race confirmed what I've been thinking well sort of and wanted to know what others felt.

Now up until Bautista put the zook in the kitty litter he was on Rossi's coat tails and closing lap by lap, and as most of us are aware its because of the hot conditions as the zook has problems getting heat into it tires.

I really believe that Bautista would have passed Rossi had he not lost it. Just like in Germany where he did both factory dukes at the line.

So what if VR JB and co went to zooki instead?

Ive read on here so many times what a piece of .... the zook is supposed to be but with limited resources can keep up with Ducatti who appear to be turning the world upside down for their machine.

I really believe that if VR and co had gone to zook the heat in the tire problems would have been sorted because they would be working with jap machinery thats familiar to them and they could have done another 04 when they walked into yams garage and turned a joke into world championship winning bike.



Just my opinion whats everyone else think?



Cheers Phill

Click to expand...

Good call mate, I was thinking the same watching today's race, and to be honest have thought it for a long time. ...... hell I never thought I would make this statement but Rossi an Hoppo would be a force to be reckoned with on the zuk. Rossi an JB for the input an Hoppo for the future.



God what has become of me?



Pete

basspete said:

Good call mate, I was thinking the same watching today's race, and to be honest have thought it for a long time. ...... hell I never thought I would make this statement but Rossi an Hoppo would be a force to be reckoned with on the zuk. Rossi an JB for the input an Hoppo for the future.



God what has become of me?



Pete

Click to expand...

Cheers Pete

Thought I was alone in this way of thinking but after discussing it with a few buddies today thought what the hell lol.



Dont worry too much mate its not the dark side you know

Had this discussion with Arrab last night. The Suzuki is a better bike than the Ducati, in my opinion. No disrespect meant to Bautista, as I rate him, but I think Rossi and Hayden are a level above Alvaro and yet he continues to pace right with them or in front of them.

If am not mistaken bautista binned it at laguna when homing in on rossi as well, only trouble is no one knows what suzuki are gonna do next year!

The Suzuki will continue to be ..... until they decide to increase the budget beyond "whatever Paul Denning can find down the back of his sofa." I think the Suzuki has a lot more potential than the Ducati at the moment, but they don't have a bajillion dollar budget to pay for development.



For a primer on Suzuki's approach to racing, I cannot recommend the following podcast highly enough: Dean Adams talking to Kenny Roberts Jr http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast112.mp3

As much as I would like to see Suzuki stay and hopefully becoming more competitive, I can't help shaking that feeling of deja-vu when looking at their recent form. How many times have we seen them all of the sudden become stronger in the second half of a season, just enough to get our (and presumably corporate and sponsor's) hope up, only to return to hopelessness at the start of the next season?

Kropotkin said:

The Suzuki will continue to be ..... until they decide to increase the budget beyond "whatever Paul Denning can find down the back of his sofa." I think the Suzuki has a lot more potential than the Ducati at the moment, but they don't have a bajillion dollar budget to pay for development.



For a primer on Suzuki's approach to racing, I cannot recommend the following podcast highly enough: Dean Adams talking to Kenny Roberts Jr [media]http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast112.mp3[/media]

Click to expand...

I was about to say the same thing Krop. Until those guys are prepared to really invest in and commit to the MotoGP project they will always be found wanting. At the present time, the bike does seem to have the potential to make progress more rapidly than Ducati, but it appears to be all about the financials. And Suzuki ain't got any

Kropotkin said:

The Suzuki will continue to be ..... until they decide to increase the budget beyond "whatever Paul Denning can find down the back of his sofa." I think the Suzuki has a lot more potential than the Ducati at the moment, but they don't have a bajillion dollar budget to pay for development.



For a primer on Suzuki's approach to racing, I cannot recommend the following podcast highly enough: Dean Adams talking to Kenny Roberts Jr [media]http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast112.mp3[/media]

Click to expand...

When that interview first was published, I said it should be required listening for anybody who is a real fan of the sport. He doesn't just talk about Suzuki, but more importantly, GP power politics.



Today I was watching the race with a friend who only watches the races and half way through the race he said to me "What's happened to Rossi, he's really sucks." Then he added, Nicky is sucking just as much, WTF." I didn't have time to catch him up on all the .... that plays out in GP, but he did hear the commentators mention that they were on different bikes. To which he added, "Why are they on different bikes, they look exactly the same." hahahaha.



This is how most people watch the races, including many people here who claim they've been watching since salt was invented. I don't blame him for not knowing though, since really, who has time to read everything about the sport? I don't, (though I still read everything) but that's because I put more important .... in my life aside, where as peeps like my friend actually have lives and priorities straight. Hehe. But its really useless to be very informed since even knowing what is what doesn't mean much since none of us agree on how this may or may not effect the sport and the players. So much .... happens behind the scenes. I've likened the sport to mildly better than WWF, which in someways is more honest. ...., even the "experts" don't agree, and they being human, are also susceptible to their own bias. A few riders come to mind, Biaggi, Melandri, Sete, but Roberts perhaps has the most standing in cases that expose a bit of the power politics of the sport because the rest are so easily discounted, or at least discredited.





I'm reminded of your post recently where you said something like you being just a dumb journalist who never raced (which was hilarious btw). I've often thought that Nicky's career has been wasted in GP, but I'm just a dumb Nicky-fanboy who never raced.



Anyway, back to Suzuki, of the things that happened this weekend, the one thing that gutted me the most was Hopkins getting hurt. He was on pace to really show a positive race, and after seeing Alvaro (that non "alien" rider) hound "alien" Rossi on the Ducati made it hurt imagining (realistically or not) what might have been. You made a good point in mentioning him on your Saturday round up, that he if nothing else deserved another look. But that still leaves the fact that this look would still be on a Suzuki. I'd say thats like saying Rossi deserves another look on a two year extension at Ducati. Uhm, what will this accomplish, eh? (Btw, I see Rossi on a Honda in 2013, you heard it here first). Suzuki looks like it was on life support, then they looked to have a decent weekend at Brno, then disaster. Unlike Ducati, which will soldier on, as one commentator said while looking at Rossi's progress this year in terms of chassis rather than chronological time in saying "that was three chassis ago", Suzuki doesn't seem that apt to making changes so quickly. In terms of size of company, Suzuki is much larger, but in terms of GP racing commitment, Ducati looks like a Honda next to Suzuki.

People always want to bash Suzuki for their limited budget, but why should companies spend tens of millions to adapt to rules changes?



500s >> 990s >> fuel cuts >> 800s & fuel cuts >> control tire >> engine life regulations >> 1000cc & bore limit & cylinder limit



How much have the regulatory changes cost during the last 12 seasons? Furthermore, bad regulations means that diminishing marginal returns force Suzuki to spend larger sums of money to get back on the pace.



Suzuki developed a good long term plan after first 990cc prototypes turned out to be very poorly built race bikes. By 2007, Suzuki were in position to achieve results, but a combination of business concerns and safety problems led to rules changes that moved the sport away from Suzuki again. Kawasaki withdrew b/c they were sick of it. I'm surprised Suzuki have stayed committed for so long.

mylexicon said:

People always want to bash Suzuki for their limited budget, but why should companies spend tens of millions to adapt to rules changes?

Click to expand...

Because those companies ask for them:

mylexicon said:

500s >> 990s >> fuel cuts >> 800s & fuel cuts >> control tire >> engine life regulations >> 1000cc & bore limit & cylinder limit

Click to expand...

original class >> MSMA >> MSMA >> MSMA >> MSMA >> MSMA >> MSMA

Suzuki is what it is, Ducati is no giant and Yamaha don't even have a sponsor. Why can't they get together and reign Honda in? Or why don't they rather?

Kropotkin said:

Because those companies ask for them:

Click to expand...

Speaking of changes, did I detect Rossi's bike a bit more stable than Nicky's? Does this mean that the GP.11.1.46 is here to stay?



Also, I notice you've been using the term "aliens" more often since our little scrap, are you still trying to convince yourself? What does it say about an "alien" when they can't ride around a tire problem, that's two now (Stoner & Lorenzo), not to mention Pedro's inexplicable off. Dovi, perhaps "alien-lite"?



While you're digesting that, quick question, you also mentioned in your round up Simo's popularity. As you say, he has yet to beat Dovi, but the rumor mill seems to peg Dovi losing his factory ride while Simo staying with one...wtf is up with that?v Is the marketing of hair that important to GP?

Kropotkin said:

Because those companies ask for them:

Click to expand...

I doubt Suzuki asked for the current formula; especially since they can't meet the engine mileage requirements without special exceptions. I doubt Suzuki pushed for the 1000cc 81mm 4-cylinder formula.



Suzuki probably asked for the 990s, and since then they have been caught in the middle of Honda/Yamaha vs. Dorna.

Jumkie said:

As you say, he has yet to beat Dovi, but the rumor mill seems to peg Dovi losing his factory ride while Simo staying with one...wtf is up with that?v Is the marketing of hair that important to GP?

Click to expand...

I thought I'd read that both would lose factory backing, that only Stoner and Pedrosa would have true factory rides next season. Hopefully Kropotkin can shed some light on that.

Kropotkin said:

The Suzuki will continue to be ..... until they decide to increase the budget beyond "whatever Paul Denning can find down the back of his sofa." I think the Suzuki has a lot more potential than the Ducati at the moment, but they don't have a bajillion dollar budget to pay for development.



For a primer on Suzuki's approach to racing, I cannot recommend the following podcast highly enough: Dean Adams talking to Kenny Roberts Jr [media]http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast112.mp3[/media]

Click to expand...

Cheers Krop.

That was a very interesting listen and answered my questioning very well.

I was under the impression that if VR and co had gone to zooki that sponsership would provide the extra cash required but after listening to the podcast its evident thats not the case. Not to mention the wage bill for VR.



p.s. you could have warned me how long the cast was, had to do it in 3 sittings

Austin said:

I thought I'd read that both would lose factory backing, that only Stoner and Pedrosa would have true factory rides next season. Hopefully Kropotkin can shed some light on that.

Click to expand...

Yeah I thought that was the case too!

Unless the top man at gresini (sorry dont know his name) dips into his own pocket to pay for the factory equiptment.

Although I do still say Dovi & Sic would make a great Gresini team if they could bury the hatchet between themselves.

lil red rocket pilot said:

Yeah I thought that was the case too!

Unless the top man at gresini (sorry dont know his name) dips into his own pocket to pay for the factory equiptment.

Although I do still say Dovi & Sic would make a great Gresini team if they could bury the hatchet between themselves.

Click to expand...

Fausto Gresini.

Austin said:

Fausto Gresini.

Click to expand...

Cheers Austin

WITH LIMITED RESOURCES ALVARO HAS DEVELOPED THIS BIKE BETTER THAN WHAT ROSSI HAS DONE WITH THE DUCATI WITH 50X'S THE RESOURCES, and now it is competitive here comes the rossi boppers asking what if.... sheesh