Indy 2010 *RACE* Thread

[michaelm]

0.5

 

[michaelm]

Stoner actually made the weekend for me, i laughed my head off at his "demon late breakers" comment! Not in a stoner bashing type of way but it really tickled me.

Even a leading member of the stoner thought police such as myself considers it allowable to make the observation that he stuffed up if he crashes out of a race

.



As I have said before I wonder if even valentino can get the ducati with its current design to handle conistently and in a yamaha-like manner, although lorenzo did not appear keen to test the limits of the yamaha in the track conditions on the week-end anyway.

 

[michaelm]

double/2.5

 

[Mick D]

double

Would that not be a treble...? Hmmm maybe a 2.5!!!

 

[Talpa]

Even a leading member of the stoner thought police such as myself considers it allowable to make the observation that he stuffed up if he crashes out of a race

.



As I have said before I wonder if even valentino can get the ducati with its current design to handle conistently and in a yamaha-like manner, although lorenzo did not appear keen to test the limits of the yamaha in the track conditions on the week-end anyway.

I'm not too sure the m1 needs too much praise after last weekend.....3 crashes for rossi, a record. Jorge wasn't too happy with it either saying it was like riding a 250 down the straights. And Colin couldn't get either tyre to work on it





Indys a rubbish circuit, so conclusions shouldn't really be drawn, I'd be happy to see Portimao or Turkey on the calender instead....

 

[michaelm]

Indys a rubbish circuit, so conclusions shouldn't really be drawn, I'd be happy to see Portimao or Turkey on the calender instead....

That was more or less my point, that jorge backed off because of this.



I don't disagree that all the bikes in this current "safety" formula, possibly with a significant contribution from the current tyres, are treacherous/unpredictable. Valentino seems to have had more crashes in the last 2 years than in the previous decade. Sure he may have had to push harder due to competition from jorge etc, but it would also appear that even the yamaha lets go with little warning.

 

[Talpa]

That was more or less my point, that jorge backed off because of this.



I don't disagree that all the bikes in this current "safety" formula, possibly with a significant contribution from the current tyres, are treacherous/unpredictable. Valentino seems to have had more crashes in the last 2 years than in the previous decade. Sure he may have had to push harder due to competition from jorge etc, but it would also appear that even the yamaha lets go with little warning.

IMO the rubber is the key to this, as soon as BS become the sole supplier, the R&D stopped. And with the bikes components all advancing, the rubber just isn't up to it. In a sense trying build the bike around the tyres is more expensive, and unpredictable as you said. VR does specifically mention 'the arrival' of Bridgestone, as they had been there for a while in 2007, no doubt VR meant the arrival of their competativeness. The KMart approach to tyre supply just doesn't work in prototype racing.

 

[SackWack]

If Rossi/Pedro stayed with Michelin they still might be in this competition and tire developement might not have stopped. Shouldn't teams as high as a MOTOGP team be smart enough to develope their bike, or at least set them up to work with the tires.

 

[J4rn0]

If Rossi/Pedro stayed with Michelin they still might be in this competition and tire developement might not have stopped. Shouldn't teams as high as a MOTOGP team be smart enough to develope their bike, or at least set them up to work with the tires.

Control tire is good, it needs some more fine tuning but the concept is sound. It does not really matter who the supplier is.

What is still sorely missing is the ban of electronic aids. It should be announced now to allow manufacturers to design accordingly for 2012.

2011 I'm afraid will have to be the same as now.

Hurry up Ezpeleta!

 

[geewhiz14]

My two boys on the top 2 steps of the podium. I'm pleased as a punch.

Felicitations to Danibot for finally breaking his "2-wins-a-season curse".

And Spies, man, he's the underdog to look out for next season. Seems there just might be a new member to the Aliens Club soon.



Very surprised that Jorge didn't look close to challenging Dani and Ben. Still, a solid rise from him and he's still on track to finish the season firmly in the podium.





Still, the death of Lenz has cast a shadow over everything. R.I.P. lad.

 

[Arrabbiata1]

Control tire is good, it needs some more fine tuning but the concept is sound. It does not really matter who the supplier is.

What is still sorely missing is the ban of electronic aids. It should be announced now to allow manufacturers to design accordingly for 2012.

2011 I'm afraid will have to be the same as now.

Hurry up Ezpeleta!

No the control tyre situation is not good...there are several reasons why the current situation is deeply flawed and goes way beyond the need merely for 'some more fine tuning'.



Agree 100% with the rest

 

[J4rn0]

No the control tyre situation is not good...there are several reasons why the current situation is deeply flawed and goes way beyond the need merely for 'some more fine tuning'.



Agree 100% with the rest

Please expand...

 

[michaelm]

Please expand...

One problem I see is that the control tyre is too good. The pirelli control tyre in wsbk which doesn't appear to last the entire race probably contributes significantly to both the closeness of the racing and the degree of rider involvement at the end of races. A similar tyre in motogp would favour rossi in particular and possibly also stoner.



The current control tyre apart from not suiting my favoured rider appears to suit one riding style in a current formula which is already "one line" as arrabbiata and others have (correctly imo) often argued due to the fuel restrictions, electronics, engine characteristics etc; however I am also prepared to go along the lines of lex's recent "keeper of the flame" comment and suggest that a tyre which suits jorge lorenzo better than valentino rossi is inherently (perhaps even morally) wrong.



I will also go with lex and say that it is easy to blame dorna, and I have often done so, but fairly clearly the msma are ''driving" the electronics aspect. It is hard to think of anyone else in favour, in particular any riders, past or present.

 

[DRILL]

Sack Indy,sack electronics,yes,yes.Keith Code sums it up in one sentance........................`a twist of the wrist`.

 

[michaelm]

Sack Indy,sack electronics,yes,yes.Keith Code sums it up in one sentance........................`a twist of the wrist`.

This is what yamaka, an engineer if I recall, argued as early as 2007 at the start of the electronics debate; at the least no ride by wire throttle and no track position sensitive engine mapping.The riders can use the software between their ears.

 

[DRILL]

This is what yamaka, an engineer if I recall, said as early as 2007 at the start of the electronics debate; at the least no ride by wire throttle and no track position sensitive engine mapping.

Its diluting the sport but there are folk who love it with the PC bikes,fu7ck knows why.

 

[povol]

One problem I see is that the control tyre is too good. The pirelli control tyre in wsbk which doesn't appear to last the entire race probably contributes significantly to both the closeness of the racing and the degree of rider involvement at the end of races. A similar tyre in motogp would favour rossi in particular and possibly also stoner.



The current control tyre apart from not suiting my favoured rider appears to suit one riding style in a current formula which is already "one line" as arabbiata and others have (correctly imo) often argued due to the fuel restrictions electronics, engine characteristics etc; however I am also prepared to go along the lines of lex's recent "keeper of the flame" comment and suggest that a tyre which suits jorge lorenzo better than valentino rossi is inherently (perhaps even morally) wrong.



I will also go with lex and say that it is easy to blame dorna, and I have often done so, but fairly clearly the msma are ''driving" the electronics aspect. It is hard to think of anyone else in favour, in particular any riders, past or present.

Add Spies to that list, he always seems to be moving forward the last 4-5 laps of a race.



Im not sure what to think about your one statement that it is morally wrong for a tire to suit Lorenzo and not Rossi, right after you seemed to be a proponent of a tire that falls off and would favor Rossi and possibly Stoner.

 

[michaelm]

Im not sure what to think about your one statement that it is morally wrong for a tire to suit Lorenzo and not Rossi, right after you seemed to be a proponent of a tire that falls off and would favor Rossi and possibly Stoner.

Sure spies demonstrated this in wsbk on the pirellis.



I can't do emoticons on this computer and was partly joking, but I intended my second statement to be along the lines of the first in that the current control tyre appears not to allow rossi one of his primary edges of more halcyon days, meaning more halcyon days for gp racing rather than him, of preserving tyres and riding better on worn tyres. Jorge in fairness may have had this skill or developed it if necessary as he is obviously very good regardless, but I agree with others that the current grippy bridgestones which last the whole race seem to suit his neat 250 riding style; stoner's riding when he was close to as dominant in 2007 was at least more entertaining to watch, and there now does not seem much place for rossi's riding versatility.

 

[Arrabbiata1]

Please expand...

Primarily the two compound limitation is simply too constrained, and has many implications for safety; secondly the lack of competition is stimying development.

 

[povol]

Sure spies demonstrated this in wsbk on the pirellis.



I can't do emoticons on this computer and was partly joking, but I intended my second statement to be along the lines of the first in that the current control tyre appears not to allow rossi one of his primary edges of more halcyon days, meaning more halcyon days for gp racing rather than him, of preserving tyres and riding better on worn tyres. Jorge in fairness may have had this skill or developed it if necessary as he is obviously very good regardless, but I agree with others that the current grippy bridgestones which last the whole race seem to suit his neat 250 riding style; stoner's riding when he was close to as dominant in 2007 was at least more entertaining to watch, and there now does not seem much place for rossi's riding versatility.

He has demonstrated it in GP this year as well.