How many bikes in 2012

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alex29

Joined
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How many bikes are there going to be on the grid next year? All of these CRT bikes joining but with only 8 rounds remaining this year all's quiet. A bit worring is that honda are rumored to be down sizing to 4 bikes .





Honda 4 bikes

Yamaha 4 bikes

Ducati 6

Suzuki 1 ?



So where is the magic 22-24 bikes on the grid Dorna are talking about?
 
Badfish said:
How many bikes are there going to be on the grid next year? All of these CRT bikes joining but with only 8 rounds remaining this year all's quiet. A bit worring is that honda are rumored to be down sizing to 4 bikes .





Honda 4 bikes

Yamaha 4 bikes

Ducati 6

Suzuki 1 ?



So where is the magic 22-24 bikes on the grid Dorna are talking about?
Click to expand...

Just not 3 factory bikes for hrc next year is all I am aware of. LCR will still be going afaik, with some talk of expansion.
 
Badfish said:
How many bikes are there going to be on the grid next year? All of these CRT bikes joining but with only 8 rounds remaining this year all's quiet. A bit worring is that honda are rumored to be down sizing to 4 bikes .





Honda 4 bikes

Yamaha 4 bikes

Ducati 6

Suzuki 1 ?



So where is the magic 22-24 bikes on the grid Dorna are talking about?
Click to expand...

Maybe they should wheel out the 500 two-smokes like the first year of 990
<
Actually maybe thats an idea! I heard since MX went 4-stroke the privateers are really struggling with the costs, so they are allowing 250 two-smokes to race against the thumpers. Two-stroke motogp would be much cheaper no? Would they still be competitive?
 
Looking back to 2009 the 250 two strokes were running at best just over 3.5 sec a lap slower than motogp! Thats already close enough for me. I want two strokes back for privateers, bring back KTM and Aprilia two stroke 500s with unlimited fuel and engines. Where are you Drill?



Date May 3, 2009 Location Circuito de Jerez Course Permanent racing facility

2.748 mi / 4.423 km MotoGP Pole position Fastest lap Jorge Lorenzo Valentino Rossi 1:38.933 1:39.818 Podium 1. Valentino Rossi 2. Dani Pedrosa 3. Casey Stoner

250 cc Pole position Fastest lap Alex Debón Álvaro Bautista 1:43.028 1:43.338
 
birdman said:
Maybe they should wheel out the 500 two-smokes like the first year of 990
<
Actually maybe thats an idea! I heard since MX went 4-stroke the privateers are really struggling with the costs, so they are allowing 250 two-smokes to race against the thumpers. Two-stroke motogp would be much cheaper no? Would they still be competitive?
Click to expand...

Short answer, not even close. They were outmatched from the get go, i cant imagine how far behind they would be after 10 years of 4 stroke advancement.
 
Honda is not going to 4 bikes from anything that I have heard other than one misconstrued article and a lot of internet conjecture based on that one article. Show me ANY evidence other than that poorly worded article.
 
Bigguy said:
Honda is not going to 4 bikes from anything that I have heard other than one misconstrued article and a lot of internet conjecture based on that one article. Show me ANY evidence other than that poorly worded article.
Click to expand...



Listen to the Soupkast with Livio Suppo, where he talks about how many bikes Honda will field (cliff notes, they don't know yet). MP3 download here: http://www.soupkast.com/kast/soupkast134.mp3
 
Is he implying that there will be fewer? I know one of the Ducati satellite teams was talking to Honda about the possibility of making the switch - but obviously that does not mean that they were told it was possible. I'm sure sponsorship will play a large part, I don't think Honda wants to do as much funding at the moment.
 
I asked Livio Suppo about how many bikes they will have. He said they'll make a decision at the end of August, and it will be between 4 and 6 bikes. But six bikes will be very hard, more likely to be 5 bikes next year.
 
Thanks, 5-6 is roughly what I was expecting. I keep reading 4 and I do not believe the article (was it in Crash? One of those questionable sources) was well written and was even more poorly interpreted.
 
povol said:
Short answer, not even close. They were outmatched from the get go, i cant imagine how far behind they would be after 10 years of 4 stroke advancement.
Click to expand...

The 500's did a lot better than what a BMW powered Suter is doing. Whats the point of this production engine crap and CRT? More bikes but 8 sec off the pace. In 2009 at Jerez Bautista on a 250cc two stroke did a fastest lap 3.5 sec off Rossi on the Yamaha. Thats the $$$$$ million dollar Yamaha with the GOAT riding vs lowly Baustista on a cheap ... piddly 250cc. KTM and Aprilia would make a decent 500. How about a Gas Gas 500?
<




A 500cc would have many advantages for cash straped privateers with no need for slipper clutches or complicated electronics to control rear wheel lock up on corner entry.



Motogp had a rich history of two strokes but thanks to Honda thats all gone and instead we might get lucky enough to watch 4 competitive bikes against 10 superbikes with a grid of 14?
 
birdman said:
The 500's did a lot better than what a BMW powered Suter is doing. Whats the point of this production engine crap and CRT? More bikes but 8 sec off the pace. In 2009 at Jerez Bautista on a 250cc two stroke did a fastest lap 3.5 sec off Rossi on the Yamaha. Thats the $$$$$ million dollar Yamaha with the GOAT riding vs lowly Baustista on a cheap ... piddly 250cc. KTM and Aprilia would make a decent 500. How about a Gas Gas 500?
<




A 500cc would have many advantages for cash straped privateers with no need for slipper clutches or complicated electronics to control rear wheel lock up on corner entry.



Motogp had a rich history of two strokes but thanks to Honda thats all gone and instead we might get lucky enough to watch 4 competitive bikes against 10 superbikes with a grid of 14?
Click to expand...

As long as i can remember, GP was the haves and have nots. You had 2-3 bikes that were capable of running upfront, and more often than not, you had a superior rider who could take one of those bikes and win easily. Its the nature of the beast, and as much as people like Lex dont like it, IT IS a technology contest first, and rider contest second. I can get my fill of close racing by watching WSBK<DSB and ASB.
 
povol said:
As long as i can remember, GP was the haves and have nots. You had 2-3 bikes that were capable of running upfront, and more often than not, you had a superior rider who could take one of those bikes and win easily. Its the nature of the beast, and as much as people like Lex dont like it, IT IS a technology contest first, and rider contest second. I can get my fill of close racing by watching WSBK<DSB and ASB.
Click to expand...

The problem is the high cost. If it goes really wrong, and Suzuki and Ducati quit, will anyone still be watching Motogp? CRT and production engines with control tyres? Might as well just say Superbikes. Clearly Kawaski, BMW and Aprilia think the future is superbikes.



Back to two strokes, Honda would have made damn sure the 500 was not going to match the 990. And what was the budget for the 500 that year vs the 990? Imo the only way Motogp can survive as a separate entity from Superbike is to go back to a more open rule book.
 
BMW and Aprilia both want to get to GP, Aprilia can't afford it yet and BMW says they want to win a superbike title before moving up. Kawasaki... I don't know. They can't seem to build a competitive superbike and it looked as though they were trying to kill their GP riders. I think 'lost' is the word I was looking for.
 
birdman said:
The problem is the high cost. If it goes really wrong, and Suzuki and Ducati quit, will anyone still be watching Motogp? CRT and production engines with control tyres? Might as well just say Superbikes. Clearly Kawaski, BMW and Aprilia think the future is superbikes.



Back to two strokes, Honda would have made damn sure the 500 was not going to match the 990. And what was the budget for the 500 that year vs the 990? Imo the only way Motogp can survive as a separate entity from Superbike is to go back to a more open rule book.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say those manufacturers believe World Superbike is the future. Kawasaki decided that World Supers was a more cost effective means of marketing. I'd imagine little of their R&D derived from MotoGP was filtering down to their production bikes. BMW have been interested in moving into MotoGP for half a decade or more, but are smart enough to know that a semi-successful factory effort in WSB is not nearly enough to have a go at MotoGP. And my understanding of the Aprilia situation, and Kropotkin can correct me if I'm wrong, is that they hold some ill will toward Dorna for ending their reign of dominance in 250s and going single engine supplier with Honda in Moto2. My understanding is they are the most invested of anyone in World Supers, hence their active (but futile) pursuit of Simoncelli to the WSB team in the 2009 season.
 
povol said:
As long as i can remember, GP was the haves and have nots. You had 2-3 bikes that were capable of running upfront, and more often than not, you had a superior rider who could take one of those bikes and win easily. Its the nature of the beast, and as much as people like Lex dont like it, IT IS a technology contest first, and rider contest second. I can get my fill of close racing by watching WSBK<DSB and ASB.
Click to expand...



The problem is, people think back to the old gp500 days with a very misplaced sense of nostalgia. I think this comes in part because the era gets remembered not so much by what it really was like, but by how you experience it today by watching youtube clips. Which youtube video's do you think get watched the most? Those with exceptionally exiting races. They conveniently forget that these were the exceptions rather than the norm. And of course a 5 minute race review is more action packed than watching a full race. So you get a very distorted picture of big grids at the start (failing to see just how wide the distribution in lap times was, in other words, how slow the back-markers were relative to the mid-pack and the mid-pack relative to the front runners) and exiting racing right until the chequered flag (ignoring the many races with dominating victories).



Truth is, gp racing has been between a very select number of factory backed honda and yamaha riders most of the time, with never more than 3, maybe 4 really competitive riders on those bikes.



I absolutely agree with you, this is in the nature of prototype racing. If you want to see a more equalized grid, watch sbk. Be glad that that option is available, rather than moan about how gp should become more like sbk.
 
stiefel said:
The problem is, people think back to the old gp500 days with a very misplaced sense of nostalgia. I think this comes in part because the era gets remembered not so much by what it really was like, but by how you experience it today by watching youtube clips. Which youtube video's do you think get watched the most? Those with exceptionally exiting races. They conveniently forget that these were the exceptions rather than the norm. And of course a 5 minute race review is more action packed than watching a full race. So you get a very distorted picture of big grids at the start (failing to see just how wide the distribution in lap times was, in other words, how slow the back-markers were relative to the mid-pack and the mid-pack relative to the front runners) and exiting racing right until the chequered flag (ignoring the many races with dominating victories).



Truth is, gp racing has been between a very select number of factory backed honda and yamaha riders most of the time, with never more than 3, maybe 4 really competitive riders on those bikes.



I absolutely agree with you, this is in the nature of prototype racing. If you want to see a more equalized grid, watch sbk. Be glad that that option is available, rather than moan about how gp should become more like sbk.
Click to expand...

Too much control garbage. Control tyres, control fuel capacity, control cylinder numbers, control 81mm bore, control number of engines per year, control number of tests per year, control this, control that blah blah blah. It seams to me more manufacturers are actually in superbikes because there is more potential there to develop and continuously improve a bike than motogp.
 
Good post Birdman, there seems to be alot of control condsidering its supposed to be protoype racing. .
 

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