How does Casey go about beating Rossi now...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 31 2008, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i said stoner fans loosing respect for him not rossi fans, sure a lot of rossi fans started to dislike him purly because he was beating vale, some lost respect for him because of his tantrums and nothing to do with beating vale but im reading a different tone from his own fans after his parc ferme comments.

To be fair Roger, I have not met many of his fans in Australia who have lost any respect for Stoner as a result of the parc ferme comments (irrespective of whether they agree or not).

But, almost to a person there is disappointment regarding the failure to shake hands (my own personal view as well). This is because within a sporting environment most Aussies that I deal with place a large premium on the handshake as an acknowledgement, irrespective of what happened 'on the field'.

Respect is a hard word, but I have no doubt that a number of people are greatly disappointed for their own reasons.





Garry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gaz @ Jul 31 2008, 06:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To be fair Roger, I have not met many of his fans in Australia who have lost any respect for Stoner as a result of the parc ferme comments (irrespective of whether they agree or not).

But, almost to a person there is disappointment regarding the failure to shake hands (my own personal view as well). This is because within a sporting environment most Aussies that I deal with place a large premium on the handshake as an acknowledgement, irrespective of what happened 'on the field'.

Respect is a hard word, but I have no doubt that a number of people are greatly disappointed for their own reasons.





Garry

Beautifully put. The failure to shake hands disappointed me a lot.
There were a number of occasions I was worried about them both coming off. Casey probably was too, but I'd prefer he shook hands and give him back the same with interest next time.

It doesn't worry me as long as he backs it up on the track. It would surprise me extremely if he backs down from a one-on-one duel in a future race now that ground rules have been set. If he does and then complains I will change my view.

I am sure valentino is as charismatic and friendly off the track as everyone says, but he is a killer (figuratively not literally) on the track just like most others who have approached his level of achievement, and kowtowing to him and acknowledging his greatness has not proven a successful tactic when employed by others in the past.

Given Vale and Casey make a shitload of $$$ doing what they love I don't think either of them would put too much emphasis on any of this "respect" crap that the media love to drum up. In fact for all we know they are holidaying together dreaming up the next piece of gossip between them just for the entertainment value similar to wrestling -

"Okay Casi thisa race I'lla be the bad cop anda you be the good cop yes?"

"Sure mate start ogling my wife in park ferme, that'll stir the fuckers up!"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lad @ Jul 31 2008, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Given Vale and Casey make a shitload of $$$ doing what they love I don't think either of them would put too much emphasis on any of this "respect" crap that the media love to drum up. In fact for all we know they are holidaying together dreaming up the next piece of gossip between them just for the entertainment value similar to wrestling -

"Okay Casi thisa race I'lla be the bad cop anda you be the good cop yes?"

"Sure mate start ogling my wife in park ferme, that'll stir the fuckers up!"
I don't think central casting are going to pick casey for the good cop role very often .

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 31 2008, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think central casting are going to pick casey for the good cop role very often .

If both of them grow their hair we could have another Starsky and Hutch remake

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 31 2008, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i said stoner fans loosing respect for him not rossi fans,

well hands up those Stoner fans who have lost respect with Casey for his naughty words at Vale ...... come on Rog. I thought your trip out of "the cabin" seemed to do you the world of good, but this one is back at the crap again ... get real Rog. ...... would you loose respect for Vale if he stuck up for himself by daring to say something to a rider he has an issue with. Don't start with the crap Rog. .... think back to your trip.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 31 2008, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well hands up those Stoner fans who have lost respect with Casey for his naughty words at Vale ...... come on Rog. I thought your trip out of "the cabin" seemed to do you the world of good, but this one is back at the crap again ... get real Rog. ...... would you loose respect for Vale if he stuck up for himself by daring to say something to a rider he has an issue with. Don't start with the crap Rog. .... think back to your trip.
im only saying what i read and heard from peeps. didn't son of doohan say something aBOUT CASEY MAKING IF DIFFICULT TO DEFEND WHEN HE GOES AND SAYS THINGS LIKE HE DID IN PARC

hit caps lock, could not be arsed to re type

Another gossip column drummed up by the media with absolutely no substance. Where's the link to the original article? Yet more tabloid ........, that's not worth the time of day - good for the people who dislike Stoner though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 31 2008, 09:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>im only saying what i read and heard from peeps. didn't son of doohan say something aBOUT CASEY MAKING IF DIFFICULT TO DEFEND WHEN HE GOES AND SAYS THINGS LIKE HE DID IN PARC

hit caps lock, could not be arsed to re type

But what exactly did he say that got folk so worked up?

I would have said a damn sight more had I nearly been knocked off my ride at such a place as the corkscrew ..... especially given the pre-hype for the race whereby Rossi had overtly indicated he would attempt to get out in front and block his way to a win ...... things were already "tender" then but then to come out with one of the alltime out of control moves for the sake of a desperate pass attempt ..... that could have gone bad ...... I definitely think Rossi got off lightly ....... imagine if it was back in "the day" I think Rossi wouls have got a tad more than just a mere indication of ill feeling


Besides I think Roger, you hold the key to how serious Stoner thought the situation was, ie. you did a bit of "bar banging" with him, granted he was in a hummer , and all he said to you was niceties!

I it is evident that Stoner is the rider Rossi respects and "fears" the most. He wanted his same tyres to be able to neutralize the most important variable between them. He knew pretty well that this 2008 would have been a duel between the two of them, in the end. He would prefer to have Pedrosa any day, for sure... but he never took his eyes off Stoner, even when Casey was having difficulties. He insisted that Stoner was not out of it, even when he was lagging 45 points behind. One thing one can say for Rossi--he is the most experienced rider out there and he can tell who the best ones are.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Son of Doohan @ Jul 31 2008, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another gossip column drummed up by the media with absolutely no substance. Where's the link to the original article? Yet more tabloid ........, that's not worth the time of day - good for the people who dislike Stoner though.
This is the problem with a 4 week midseason break, they have to find something to stretch out for this period, particularly in spain as I doubt dani and jorge have exactly been bounding around offering interviews freely given their current situations.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Jul 31 2008, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But what exactly did he say that got folk so worked up?

I would have said a damn sight more had I nearly been knocked off my ride at such a place as the corkscrew ..... especially given the pre-hype for the race whereby Rossi had overtly indicated he would attempt to get out in front and block his way to a win ...... things were already "tender" then but then to come out with one of the alltime out of control moves for the sake of a desperate pass attempt ..... that could have gone bad ...... I definitely think Rossi got off lightly ....... imagine if it was back in "the day" I think Rossi wouls have got a tad more than just a mere indication of ill feeling


Besides I think Roger, you hold the key to how serious Stoner thought the situation was, ie. you did a bit of "bar banging" with him, granted he was in a hummer , and all he said to you was niceties!
i guess you did not see casey and vale touch on the rahal straight leading to the corkscrew that imo set the chain of events leading to rossi going a bit off line through the corkscrew then? no worries cos from what i saw on bbc and eurosport they didnt show it but the american channel that aired the race did. not sure what coverage you lot get in oz.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 31 2008, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i guess you did not see casey and vale touch on the rahal straight leading to the corkscrew that imo set the chain of events leading to rossi going a bit off line through the corkscrew then? no worries cos from what i saw on bbc and eurosport they didnt show it but the american channel that aired the race did. not sure what coverage you lot get in oz.

Not really interested in this fight but I think you have a point Roger about the touch. Another thing is; what options did Rossi have. Comitting to a pass is allways risky and depend on the asumption that the other will brake earlier/harder. As Rossi said, Stoner didn't, and as it was Rossi had no other option but to go through with his pass. The other option would be to try to back up as we have seen Pedrosa do so many times, and for what he has been heavily critizised for. As a result he went wide but there too, he had no option but to try to straighten the bike as much as possible over the gravel.
Aborting the pass could just as easily caused a lowside taking Stoner with him.
I suspect this is part of Stoner's anger. He showed every signal that he would not accept a pass at the cork screw but still rossi was there. Probably also why Rossi rate it as one of his best passes ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 31 2008, 11:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Probably also why Rossi rate it as one of his best passes ever.

again, a good hard pass by Rossi IMO

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jul 31 2008, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i guess you did not see casey and vale touch on the rahal straight leading to the corkscrew that imo set the chain of events leading to rossi going a bit off line through the corkscrew then? no worries cos from what i saw on bbc and eurosport they didnt show it but the american channel that aired the race did. not sure what coverage you lot get in oz.

I did catch that on the BBC coverage, it was hard to tell if there was contact but Rossi had the inside line for the chicane.

Vale's pass through the corkscrew was a bit rough but having said that Casey had already been passed there earlier and should have rode a more defensive line approaching it from then on. Stoner was looking to zip away when Vale put it in the dirt, but his re entry back on the track made sure that didn't happen. Was that an out of control track re entry or a desperate attempt to ensure Stoner did not get past? I don't know. But either way the failure to shake hands afterwards should not be repeated again.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Aug 1 2008, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i guess you did not see casey and vale touch on the rahal straight leading to the corkscrew that imo set the chain of events leading to rossi going a bit off line through the corkscrew then? no worries cos from what i saw on bbc and eurosport they didnt show it but the american channel that aired the race did. not sure what coverage you lot get in oz.

No I saw all that .... but the elbow was way before the actual corner to me .... it did certainly "set the tone" for Casey that something was "on the boil" .... but what I found funny was ..... it was obvious that Casey was going to get the "inch" needed to enter the Corkscreww ..... but Vale was determined to get that inch ....... it then became obvious that to get that inch he had to put both of them in danger and the next few hundred metres were merely a disaster recovey scene from wacky races Just so happened that Stoner saw him in his predicament and in order to evade the possible consequences he had to go wide.

I think the thing with Stoner is ( and why he is pissed ) he did not expect Vale to get out of control, ask any racer, a bit of biff is fine, so long as your opponent is well in control. What anybody hates is when a rider gets to the point of being out of control ....... and is within "effect distance' for them ....... don't deny it ...... it happens the same for everybody.

But I still say, the expectation that any rider would not have had "words" for Rossi after that, is a shocker, and is why so many riders are not capable of stepping it up in motogp today. Its all a bit too dependent on not being assertive.

The majority of fans of motogp are still Rossifans, so there seems to be a prevailing sentiment to not ruffle the fans feathers with too many riders. SO when riders do not "praise the lord Rossi" after any race many are dissapointed ......

I would have shaken Rossi's hand if he had ridden to block me or fuster me ....... however this would have been under the condition that he did not hinder me dangerously. At the corkscrew he was waaaay out of control ......... that put a new "complexion" on the battle to me ........ and was worthy of chastisment. I most certainly would not shake his hand after the Corkscrew ..... matter of fact at least one "........" would have escaped my lips

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Aug 1 2008, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Vale's pass through the corkscrew was a bit rough but having said that Casey had already been passed there earlier and should have rode a more defensive line approaching it from then on. Stoner was looking to zip away when Vale put it in the dirt, but his re entry back on the track made sure that didn't happen. Was that an out of control track re entry or a desperate attempt to ensure Stoner did not get past? I don't know. But either way the failure to shake hands afterwards should not be repeated again.


yes he could have been defensive, for any sensibe racing line ........ when things are out of control such as Rossi was at the top of the Corkscrew ( at one stage he was so badly of line it looked like Stoner would T-bone Rossi as Rossi had missed the turn that bad ) nobody can even be defensive for that ....... again ..... its not the hard riding .... its the out of control stuff that ..... .....


Edit:
Not one person here would put up with, without saying something, it if it happened to them ........ niether should Stoner ...... its just more manipulative "boowhooing" when the Rossifans sook about the attack on there object of worship ....... but ....... get used to it ..... I suspect it will happen again ....... as it has in the past

Amen, Amen, Amen... Barry!

First off, I am a Stoner fan, but I have always had nothing but respect for Vale. However, after Laguna, I have done nothing but GAIN respect for Mr. Stoner and lose respect for Vale. Like it or not Rossi was out of control and put a race win above a fellow competitor's well being. Rossi is the living legend and should have known better. He well knew that Casey had 0.5 seconds more pace and was willing to risk all for the sake of a victory. BTW, I loved all the racing before and after that incident and many would have a different opinion if Casey or Rossi had be seriously injured in the crash that wasn't.

All the best...
marlboro