Help Support MotoGP Forum:
You may not get a lot of action on this thread b/c we've been going back and forth in the Hayden & Hopper: why don't they get along and the Hopper goes to Kawasaki threads. I like this topic so I'm not sick of it yet.
General consesus is that Hopper is talented but for some reason his superiority in certain riding disciplines hasn't equaled results. He went to Kawasaki for a change of scenery and a serious payday from Kawasaki and Monster Energy.
Personally I think he's better than CV, but CV has more points, more wins, and more podiums. CV has been improving drastically and is getting more comfortable and more support from the team. Both have had some good and bad performances, so I guess it's too early to conclude who is the better rider until after Valencia. Right now, I think the difference in the points is mainly related to Hoppers crash at Laguna, but even so CV has shown he can beat Hopper in the dry so it will be an interesting race to the end of the season.
Moving to a team that runs an I-4 seems to be precarious b/c they give up mpg and hp in exchange for front end load that improves corner acceleration (not good for braking though). Kawasaki already have pneumatic valves so they can run higher rpm than Yamaha (assuming Kawi's got the fuel). Tough to say what will happen. If the Kwak looks good next year, Hopper and West will deserve a pat on the back.
Money is probably the reason he left. I don't think the sum at Kawi was so big that he couldn't refuse, I think he might have been upset that the sum at Suzu was small after he pledged his career to helping improve the program.
You can see a bit of Biaggi in his eyes. However, I don't think the righteous indignation runs as deep and I don't think he is incapable of enjoying life without a title.
Time will tell.
General consesus is that Hopper is talented but for some reason his superiority in certain riding disciplines hasn't equaled results. He went to Kawasaki for a change of scenery and a serious payday from Kawasaki and Monster Energy.
Personally I think he's better than CV, but CV has more points, more wins, and more podiums. CV has been improving drastically and is getting more comfortable and more support from the team. Both have had some good and bad performances, so I guess it's too early to conclude who is the better rider until after Valencia. Right now, I think the difference in the points is mainly related to Hoppers crash at Laguna, but even so CV has shown he can beat Hopper in the dry so it will be an interesting race to the end of the season.
Moving to a team that runs an I-4 seems to be precarious b/c they give up mpg and hp in exchange for front end load that improves corner acceleration (not good for braking though). Kawasaki already have pneumatic valves so they can run higher rpm than Yamaha (assuming Kawi's got the fuel). Tough to say what will happen. If the Kwak looks good next year, Hopper and West will deserve a pat on the back.
Money is probably the reason he left. I don't think the sum at Kawi was so big that he couldn't refuse, I think he might have been upset that the sum at Suzu was small after he pledged his career to helping improve the program.
You can see a bit of Biaggi in his eyes. However, I don't think the righteous indignation runs as deep and I don't think he is incapable of enjoying life without a title.
Time will tell.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2006
- Messages
- 11,345
- Location
- Texas
Hopper is the coolest dude in the pad...he's better than CV for sure....
and as far as the move to Kawi...change is good....
and as far as the move to Kawi...change is good....
... you can see a bit of Biaggi in his eyes...
Yeah. I think that you nailed it right on the head.
I don't think that Hoppers is better than Vermulen. I think that Hoppers can act a little spoiled at times. I just watched the "Doctor, The Tornado and the Kentucky Kid". You can see and hear it in Hoppers. He has a little "entitlement" in his blood
Enough of the speculation. Here is what I know
- Hoppers is fast. Very fast.
He is one very aggressive rider and he is hard on the tyres. I think this is what is holding him back - not having enough tyre to push at the very end of the race. Vermulen is not so aggressive and has a bit more tyre left so he can push for the win. Hoppers has consistently spent his tyres and by the end of the race with have to back off or crash. To many examples to mention on that one..
Hoppers on the kawak. I think that he will be in exactly the same position that he is in right now. The Suzuki, the honda and the Ducati will improve. The Kawak (and Yamaha) will hit a plateau on improvement. Hopkins will be left with excuses as to why no great results.
#34 says you should go chasing the better bike/ride for results you may end up chasing your tail and are the worse off.
Look at Biaggi, Nakano, Barros, Checa etc. These guys gambled on a sure bet and ended up being out of a seat.
Yeah. I think that you nailed it right on the head.
I don't think that Hoppers is better than Vermulen. I think that Hoppers can act a little spoiled at times. I just watched the "Doctor, The Tornado and the Kentucky Kid". You can see and hear it in Hoppers. He has a little "entitlement" in his blood
Enough of the speculation. Here is what I know
- Hoppers is fast. Very fast.
He is one very aggressive rider and he is hard on the tyres. I think this is what is holding him back - not having enough tyre to push at the very end of the race. Vermulen is not so aggressive and has a bit more tyre left so he can push for the win. Hoppers has consistently spent his tyres and by the end of the race with have to back off or crash. To many examples to mention on that one..
Hoppers on the kawak. I think that he will be in exactly the same position that he is in right now. The Suzuki, the honda and the Ducati will improve. The Kawak (and Yamaha) will hit a plateau on improvement. Hopkins will be left with excuses as to why no great results.
#34 says you should go chasing the better bike/ride for results you may end up chasing your tail and are the worse off.
Look at Biaggi, Nakano, Barros, Checa etc. These guys gambled on a sure bet and ended up being out of a seat.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
Tinks, I think there was a thread dedicated to this question.
Here is my short answer. Hopkins is better. Chis has had more success, but that's lately on a much-improved Suzuki. The difference in points is Laguna this year, so don't let that fool you. That said, they are both great guys and deserve better results.
I wonder what you don't like about Hopkins because I can't really think of any major character flaws the guy has shown. He looks like a rockstar and in interviews he is courteous and fairly humble.
Here is my short answer. Hopkins is better. Chis has had more success, but that's lately on a much-improved Suzuki. The difference in points is Laguna this year, so don't let that fool you. That said, they are both great guys and deserve better results.
I wonder what you don't like about Hopkins because I can't really think of any major character flaws the guy has shown. He looks like a rockstar and in interviews he is courteous and fairly humble.
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2006
- Messages
- 24,726
- Location
- Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Sep 11 2007, 03:00 PM) [snapback]90154[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think that Hoppers can act a little spoiled at times. I just watched the "Doctor, The Tornado and the Kentucky Kid". You can see and hear it in Hoppers. He has a little "entitlement" in his blood
Hey, what’s up 999? Hey man, I think I saw something different. Entitlement? What gave you that impression? This is what I saw in that movie, the dude is walking around telling his story, he hangs out with the team whenever he can and pays them respect, and jumps on what is clearly an inferior bike, but goes the distance anyway, and this gave you a sense of "entitlement"? I don't get it. Please elaborate.
Perhaps you felt his emotion after the race on the movie about the Laguna race was a sense of entitlement that he wasn't up there with Hayden. But think about this, did you see how he would make ground on other riders only to be passed on the straights? How would you express this as emotion while seeing your co-patriots on the podium? ...., many are still crying about how Rossi go passed this year on straights and won’t shut up about it, so how so you think it makes Hopkins feel to have this happen all the time, with little to no notice by anybody?
I guess we all see something different, but I saw a frustrated person who knows he is better than the results he has shown, all because his crappy machine has not been adequate. The Suzuki has been primitive compared to the top bike before this year, and it still is behind them.
I'd call what you think as entitlement, frustration.
(.... the site is slow to post, anybody else having this issue?)
I think that Hoppers can act a little spoiled at times. I just watched the "Doctor, The Tornado and the Kentucky Kid". You can see and hear it in Hoppers. He has a little "entitlement" in his blood
Hey, what’s up 999? Hey man, I think I saw something different. Entitlement? What gave you that impression? This is what I saw in that movie, the dude is walking around telling his story, he hangs out with the team whenever he can and pays them respect, and jumps on what is clearly an inferior bike, but goes the distance anyway, and this gave you a sense of "entitlement"? I don't get it. Please elaborate.
Perhaps you felt his emotion after the race on the movie about the Laguna race was a sense of entitlement that he wasn't up there with Hayden. But think about this, did you see how he would make ground on other riders only to be passed on the straights? How would you express this as emotion while seeing your co-patriots on the podium? ...., many are still crying about how Rossi go passed this year on straights and won’t shut up about it, so how so you think it makes Hopkins feel to have this happen all the time, with little to no notice by anybody?
I guess we all see something different, but I saw a frustrated person who knows he is better than the results he has shown, all because his crappy machine has not been adequate. The Suzuki has been primitive compared to the top bike before this year, and it still is behind them.
I'd call what you think as entitlement, frustration.
(.... the site is slow to post, anybody else having this issue?)
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 12 2007, 08:03 AM) [snapback]90155[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Tinks, I think there was a thread dedicated to this question.
Here is my short answer. Hopkins is better. Chis has had more success, but that's lately on a much-improved Suzuki. The difference in points is Laguna this year, so don't let that fool you. That said, they are both great guys and deserve better results.
I wonder what you don't like about Hopkins because I can't really think of any major character flaws the guy has shown. He looks like a rockstar and in interviews he is courteous and fairly humble.
now now our humble friends from the us of a of course all of you would have to put youre two bobs worth into the mr hokins basket...but speaking from an aussies point of view...there are quite a few differentiating factors between hoppers and cv...and they are that hoppers has been with the Suzuki for what 5 years and chris only what 1.5 that is the big difference and if you look at all the statistics cv has a much better record in those 1.5 years then hopper....yes i know hopper help develop and destruct the suzi but you do have to look at the facts, figures and results....hopper is a great bloke!
but his decision to move to kawasaki
? still remains a big question mark in my mind...for 2008??? was this move a step forward or 6ackward5
...only time will tell!?
Tinks, I think there was a thread dedicated to this question.
Here is my short answer. Hopkins is better. Chis has had more success, but that's lately on a much-improved Suzuki. The difference in points is Laguna this year, so don't let that fool you. That said, they are both great guys and deserve better results.
I wonder what you don't like about Hopkins because I can't really think of any major character flaws the guy has shown. He looks like a rockstar and in interviews he is courteous and fairly humble.
now now our humble friends from the us of a of course all of you would have to put youre two bobs worth into the mr hokins basket...but speaking from an aussies point of view...there are quite a few differentiating factors between hoppers and cv...and they are that hoppers has been with the Suzuki for what 5 years and chris only what 1.5 that is the big difference and if you look at all the statistics cv has a much better record in those 1.5 years then hopper....yes i know hopper help develop and destruct the suzi but you do have to look at the facts, figures and results....hopper is a great bloke!
but his decision to move to kawasaki
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 11 2007, 10:18 PM) [snapback]90157[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Hey, what’s up 999? Hey man, I think I saw something different. Entitlement? What gave you that impression?
Perhaps you felt his emotion after the race on the movie about the Laguna race was a sense of entitlement that he wasn't up there with Hayden. this as emotion while seeing your co-patriots on the podium?
I guess we all see something different, but I saw a frustrated person who knows he is better than the results he has shown, all because his crappy machine has not been adequate. The Suzuki has been primitive compared to the top bike before this year, and it still is behind
Well what I call entitlement came from the comment - Nicky has been on the bike for way to long and hasn't produces any sort of results by now. - The statement was true but there was a tinge to the comment that He would have done much much better than Nicky.
Yeah, he was frustrated that Nicky and Colin were on the Podium and he was sitting in the paddock. Yes he said he was gutted that he was getting blown by on the straights. I also see a little bit of envy.
We will see what happens to Hoppers on the Kawak. Remember KRJR took a bit of pride in rubbing Hoppers nose in it last year as much as Hoppers had quite a few things to say about RobertsJr during his last season on the suzook.
Seeing that he also made a jump from Suzook maybe his chickens have come home to roost.
Hey, what’s up 999? Hey man, I think I saw something different. Entitlement? What gave you that impression?
Perhaps you felt his emotion after the race on the movie about the Laguna race was a sense of entitlement that he wasn't up there with Hayden. this as emotion while seeing your co-patriots on the podium?
I guess we all see something different, but I saw a frustrated person who knows he is better than the results he has shown, all because his crappy machine has not been adequate. The Suzuki has been primitive compared to the top bike before this year, and it still is behind
Well what I call entitlement came from the comment - Nicky has been on the bike for way to long and hasn't produces any sort of results by now. - The statement was true but there was a tinge to the comment that He would have done much much better than Nicky.
Yeah, he was frustrated that Nicky and Colin were on the Podium and he was sitting in the paddock. Yes he said he was gutted that he was getting blown by on the straights. I also see a little bit of envy.
We will see what happens to Hoppers on the Kawak. Remember KRJR took a bit of pride in rubbing Hoppers nose in it last year as much as Hoppers had quite a few things to say about RobertsJr during his last season on the suzook.
Seeing that he also made a jump from Suzook maybe his chickens have come home to roost.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Whats your opinions on him?
Not much
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is he better than Chris Vermuelen?
Not in my opinion
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is going to Kawasaki really a sideways move?
Hmm good question, possibly. (I hope not, I;m a bit of a Kawasaki fan)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Do people think he's been swayed by the money?
No.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>Im not a major fan of his character although im not quite sure why.
Neither am I
Whats your opinions on him?
Not much
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is he better than Chris Vermuelen?
Not in my opinion
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Is going to Kawasaki really a sideways move?
Hmm good question, possibly. (I hope not, I;m a bit of a Kawasaki fan)
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Do people think he's been swayed by the money?
No.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tinks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:44 AM) [snapback]90130[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>Im not a major fan of his character although im not quite sure why.
Neither am I
Is he better than Chris Vermuelen?
Well that depends on which way you look at it. CV has more runs on the board, a win few podiums.
Is going to Kawasaki really a sideways move?
The change of scenery should do him good.
Do people think he's been swayed by the money?
The money has to factor in when signing a deal but the riders always say it doesnt.
I think Hopper will go alright on the Kawi and dont see it as a step backwards. Hopefully he will get his first win in 08 which i think he really needs.
Well that depends on which way you look at it. CV has more runs on the board, a win few podiums.
Is going to Kawasaki really a sideways move?
The change of scenery should do him good.
Do people think he's been swayed by the money?
The money has to factor in when signing a deal but the riders always say it doesnt.
I think Hopper will go alright on the Kawi and dont see it as a step backwards. Hopefully he will get his first win in 08 which i think he really needs.
I don't particularly care for Hopper, the way he is or the things he says.
I think hes an excellent rider and hes very consistent, but hes just not quick enough and i don't ever see him having serious success. CV is the better rider already with far less experience, but i don't think that should be used against John, because CV is clearly a bit special.
The Kawasaki move is a good one, the bikes might be roughly equal but the change of scene and the fresh start will do him good, and now that CV is riding stronger Hopper needs to get out the team, i don't think money was the deciding factor.
I think hes an excellent rider and hes very consistent, but hes just not quick enough and i don't ever see him having serious success. CV is the better rider already with far less experience, but i don't think that should be used against John, because CV is clearly a bit special.
The Kawasaki move is a good one, the bikes might be roughly equal but the change of scene and the fresh start will do him good, and now that CV is riding stronger Hopper needs to get out the team, i don't think money was the deciding factor.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Sep 12 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]90185[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't particularly care for Hopper, the way he is or the things he says.
I think hes an excellent rider and hes very consistent, but hes just not quick enough and i don't ever see him having serious success. CV is the better rider already with far less experience, but i don't think that should be used against John, because CV is clearly a bit special.
The Kawasaki move is a good one, the bikes might be roughly equal but the change of scene and the fresh start will do him good, and now that CV is riding stronger Hopper needs to get out the team, i don't think money was the deciding factor.
Interesting, you think Hopper had to leave because otherwise he might get get humiliated by CV. I suppose its possible, but that sounds like running from a challenge.
All i know is next year we are really going to find out how the Kwaka and the suzuki's compare, considering theyve had pretty much the same points this season.
I don't particularly care for Hopper, the way he is or the things he says.
I think hes an excellent rider and hes very consistent, but hes just not quick enough and i don't ever see him having serious success. CV is the better rider already with far less experience, but i don't think that should be used against John, because CV is clearly a bit special.
The Kawasaki move is a good one, the bikes might be roughly equal but the change of scene and the fresh start will do him good, and now that CV is riding stronger Hopper needs to get out the team, i don't think money was the deciding factor.
Interesting, you think Hopper had to leave because otherwise he might get get humiliated by CV. I suppose its possible, but that sounds like running from a challenge.
All i know is next year we are really going to find out how the Kwaka and the suzuki's compare, considering theyve had pretty much the same points this season.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rossifan @ Sep 12 2007, 10:10 AM) [snapback]90160[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
First of al l he is not better than CV, the points prove that , CV has won a race , Hoppers will never win a race if he keeps riding the way he has( wearing out his tyres in the first half of the race) . West will give him a good run for his money next year, Go Westy!
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
I think he is very good. Better than CV this year, has been consistent unlike CV. Going to Kawasaki will be great new challenge for him. Maybe his temper is a bit short, but other than that he looks and acts like a nice guy. also needs to be more aggressive on the bike.
First of al l he is not better than CV, the points prove that , CV has won a race , Hoppers will never win a race if he keeps riding the way he has( wearing out his tyres in the first half of the race) . West will give him a good run for his money next year, Go Westy!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(captain clutch @ Sep 12 2007, 09:07 AM) [snapback]90189[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Interesting, you think Hopper had to leave because otherwise he might get get humiliated by CV. I suppose its possible, but that sounds like running from a challenge.
I don't see it as running from a challenge, nor a case of being humiliated by CV. His best shot at a world championship is to be a clear number one rider in a factory team, its what every rider wants.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Sep 12 2007, 09:14 AM) [snapback]90190[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Westy wont give him an easy run either.. He's running from one challenge straight into another..
Westy obviously isn't going to play the Edwards role to Hopper, but I doubt we'll see West ride as well as CV or Challange Hoppers authority any time soon.
Interesting, you think Hopper had to leave because otherwise he might get get humiliated by CV. I suppose its possible, but that sounds like running from a challenge.
I don't see it as running from a challenge, nor a case of being humiliated by CV. His best shot at a world championship is to be a clear number one rider in a factory team, its what every rider wants.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Sep 12 2007, 09:14 AM) [snapback]90190[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Westy wont give him an easy run either.. He's running from one challenge straight into another..
Westy obviously isn't going to play the Edwards role to Hopper, but I doubt we'll see West ride as well as CV or Challange Hoppers authority any time soon.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Sep 12 2007, 07:51 PM) [snapback]90197[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Westy obviously isn't going to play the Edwards role to Hopper, but I doubt we'll see West ride as well as CV or Challange Hoppers authority any time soon.
I agree
Westy obviously isn't going to play the Edwards role to Hopper, but I doubt we'll see West ride as well as CV or Challange Hoppers authority any time soon.
I agree
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Sep 12 2007, 09:30 PM) [snapback]90205[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Give Westy a full year and see if what his results are in his full second year, they'll be as good, if not better than CV's this year....
I very much doubt that!
Give Westy a full year and see if what his results are in his full second year, they'll be as good, if not better than CV's this year....
I very much doubt that!
