Honda Team

I am happy I ask the question is it the bike setup, or rider skill that prevents Hayden from running up front. I now believe roger-m and povol should met over a pint, maybe many pints, and discuss MotoGP. I am an old retired fart and I can be presuaded to believe almost anything.

Formula 1 and MotoGP are an arena of very exceptional drivers and riders. But even in their ranks there a only 4 to 5 participants with the skills to go to the front week after week. Hayden is not one of those riders with the skills to ride up front. Remember the times he has started quickly and led a few lap to be overtaken. I can't remember the exact wins but I believe it is 3 or 4 in 4 years of competing. His championship was due to Rossi misfortune and Hayden had consist 5th place or better.

I am an American and think the American Motorcycle Association has hurt American chances in the MotoGP with not racing the 250s. There can be 5 250cc riders in a pack and the leader raises his head 3mm and falls to 5 place.

Conclusion: Roger-M and povol please keep me informed. I need the education. I am such a dumb .... Nicky Hayden has won his only and final championship in MotoGP.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BruceLee @ Mar 27 2007, 07:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am happy I ask the question is it the bike setup, or rider skill that prevents Hayden from running up front. I now believe roger-m and povol should met over a pint, maybe many pints, and discuss MotoGP. I am an old retired fart and I can be presuaded to believe almost anything.

Formula 1 and MotoGP are an arena of very exceptional drivers and riders. But even in their ranks there a only 4 to 5 participants with the skills to go to the front week after week. Hayden is not one of those riders with the skills to ride up front. Remember the times he has started quickly and led a few lap to be overtaken. I can't remember the exact wins but I believe it is 3 or 4 in 4 years of competing. His championship was due to Rossi misfortune and Hayden had consist 5th place or better.

I am an American and think the American Motorcycle Association has hurt American chances in the MotoGP with not racing the 250s. There can be 5 250cc riders in a pack and the leader raises his head 3mm and falls to 5 place.

Conclusion: Roger-M and povol please keep me informed. I need the education. I am such a dumb .... Nicky Hayden has won his only and final championship in MotoGP.

I Believe nicky hayden is still not far into his career and has much improvement left in him, i would consider him a potential future world champion for sure. However he is clearly having trouble with riding the 800's and needs to further alter his style to suit the bike (unless Honda do a u-turn for his sake!!) so this year is gonna be a tough one.

I would like to point out however that you are wrong on your assesment of Hayden in the second paragraph above. He was one of very few riders last year who could be fast and at the front everywhere week after week, and that is what won him the world title.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 27 2007, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I Believe nicky hayden is still not far into his career and has much improvement left in him, i would consider him a potential future world champion for sure. However he is clearly having trouble with riding the 800's and needs to further alter his style to suit the bike (unless Honda do a u-turn for his sake!!) so this year is gonna be a tough one.

I would like to point out however that you are wrong on your assesment of Hayden in the second paragraph above. He was one of very few riders last year who could be fast and at the front everywhere week after week, and that is what won him the world title.

Surely you mean fast and near the front Tom.

Pete

yes, leading group like, but not winning enough..................sounds familiar

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 27 2007, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I Believe nicky hayden is still not far into his career and has much improvement left in him, i would consider him a potential future world champion for sure. However he is clearly having trouble with riding the 800's and needs to further alter his style to suit the bike (unless Honda do a u-turn for his sake!!) so this year is gonna be a tough one.

Out of curiosity, how would Honda do u-turn to help Hayden?
Ok, he has got complaints about the fairing and the tank, bit is that really going to help much, and if I got it right, arn't thse issues allready adressed?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 27 2007, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Out of curiosity, how would Honda do u-turn to help Hayden?
Ok, he has got complaints about the fairing and the tank, bit is that really going to help much, and if I got it right, arn't thse issues allready adressed?
simple... just bring out an old 06 frame, put a 16.5 front tire back on, throw in the v4 & have at it!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BruceLee @ Mar 27 2007, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am an American and think the American Motorcycle Association has hurt American chances in the MotoGP with not racing the 250s. There can be 5 250cc riders in a pack and the leader raises his head 3mm and falls to 5 place.
bruce i here ya. i think they need that 125/250 expirience to learn how to be smooth. we do have the usgpr which do run the 125 & 250's. what they need to do is incorperate this series with the ama sbk series alowing only young up & commers to race. u see the old 250 series was dominated by 1 rider most of the time, old man oliver, who made a career outa the class. it was dull.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Mar 27 2007, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Out of curiosity, how would Honda do u-turn to help Hayden?
Ok, he has got complaints about the fairing and the tank, bit is that really going to help much, and if I got it right, arn't thse issues allready adressed?

Well they could build a bike to match Haydens riding style rather than expecting him to change his style to match the bike which they have decided (correctly in my opinion) is the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Mar 28 2007, 12:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well they could build a bike to match Haydens riding style rather than expecting him to change his style to match the bike which they have decided (correctly in my opinion) is the future.

I thought that it was the new engine that forced a different style?
With custom handmade parts it cant be too hard to make a small bike fit a big guy. Riding positions must be easy to change on a bike like that?
Besides isn't this bike a new version of his evo 211? If anyone should feel at home it should have been him, or at least I thought so.

Yes Nicky is only 4 years into the GP bikes. But look at Freddie Spencer, Kenny Roberts and Eddie Lawson. These guys teethed on 250cc machines and had riden 500cc machines before going to the GP bikes. And I believe my favorite Valentino Rossi would beat all three of the above. Rossi is so cool before a race I would bet his blood pressure and heart rate are normal. I don't think we have ever seen a talent like his.

Compare Nicky with Fast Freddie. In 1985, Fast Freddie Spencer won the 250cc and 500cc championship. The young man who had taken the championship from King Kenny Roberts in 1983 was soon to become the first person in history to win both the 250cc and 500cc World Championships in the same season. In the 250cc classification, Freddie competed in ten events, qualified on the pole six times, and won seven races. In the eleven 500cc races, Freddie qualified first nine times and won seven. This achievement stands alone in the history of modern Grand Prix racing; no competitor today would even attempt such a feat, yet Spencer accomplished it while setting nine new track records. Even more incredibly, in the same year, he won all three major divisions (250cc, 500cc and Superbike) at the AMA National at Daytona International Speedway. He is the first and only competitor ever to do so.

Look at all the Superbike riders from American that have tried to compete on GP bikes, Russel, Hayden, Hopkins, Bostrum. Australian Matt Mladin is a super racer but I ask him once why he did not go to Europe and he responded: Why should I, I make good money here and those guys are too damn fast. Hayden will work very hard but he can never be a Rossi.

To Roger & Povol: If you come to Laguna Seca I will give you my cell number so we can meet up and I will buy you a pint. I if join you two for a beer you can both boost of being more intelligent than my .... I am a 70 year old and my wife calls me a dump ..... Hey I married her.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Mar 27 2007, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I guess the only caveat with this stems from the whole EVO bike theory, i.e. up to 80% of the bike was testing parts for the 800cc machine. Rather than developing things for the 2006 bike, he was doing stuff for 2007. This theory is where all the lab rat stuff about Hayden stems from, I think, and would go some way to explain his reluctance. How accurate it is, who knows? Certainly Hayden's 2006 bike had some obvious physical differences from the other 2006 Hondas, but is it really the logical way to develop a new bike--during races, and in such a hybrid fashion?

Perhaps this is where the theory came from.. but he has the say on what works... hey HRC had a whole group called the Hayden group to work things out for Hayden's needs... yes, Hayden's needs.. in Japan

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rising Sun @ Mar 27 2007, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another thing I think worth mentioning: The trinkle-down effect of new parts from lead rider to team mate, and to teams on a lower level only happens once the new stuff has been tested and actually found to be good or better than the existing stuff. And even then what works for the lead rider might not work for others (Edwards even said something to this effect last year). Maybe Melandri isn't getting his new parts because the 2007 Honda is less than it should be, and the modifications to date haven't made it any better...

Nope, Edwards was using old parts from begining of the year and Rossi was using new parts.. which was weird because we saw Rossi struggled and Edwards in good shape till the last turn.. This fact was confirmed in the interview and race report.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BruceLee @ Mar 27 2007, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes Nicky is only 4 years into the GP bikes. But look at Freddie Spencer, Kenny Roberts and Eddie Lawson. These guys teethed on 250cc machines and had riden 500cc machines before going to the GP bikes. And I believe my favorite Valentino Rossi would beat all three of the above. Rossi is so cool before a race I would bet his blood pressure and heart rate are normal. I don't think we have ever seen a talent like his.

This is true.. in a Faster DVD, I think.. it was mentioned that Rossi race pulse is about 70 while Biaggi was around 140... talk about cool under pressure.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BruceLee @ Mar 28 2007, 04:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>To Roger & Povol: If you come to Laguna Seca I will give you my cell number so we can meet up and I will buy you a pint. I if join you two for a beer you can both boost of being more intelligent than my .... I am a 70 year old and my wife calls me a dump ..... Hey I married her.
cheers for that bruce lee,an offer i may take you up on,theres a few here on the site i would like to share a pint with., as for povol i think he will have to have a bottle of pop with a straw.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 28 2007, 03:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> cheers for that bruce lee,an offer i may take you up on,theres a few here on the site i would like to share a pint with., as for povol i think he will have to have a bottle of pop with a straw.

We have something in the states called wine coolers, I never drink the stuff, but maybe povol would like it.

I hope he is not a 6ft 8in Mountain Division soldier that comes to Laguna Saca and kicks my ....

How are you going to get the sailors home?