Honda Team

blimey, a tad up-tight are we today gang? :s

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HiMyNameIsDan @ Mar 26 2007, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>blimey, a tad up-tight are we today gang? :s
Glad to see i'm not the only one who gets myself into a pickle sometimes! Roger you were critising me for this a week or so ago too, how dare you!

Clearly, IMHO Hayden has problems with his bike while Pedrosa can ride around it. Haydens RC211V was not a "test bed" last year. Instead, HRC was bending over backwards by modifying the bike so at please Hayden.

From Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC211V

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>At the British GP, HRC gave Hayden a new chassis, but Hayden complained that he didn't have enough time to test it. Hayden had started the year with the same clutch as Pedrosa, but 4 rounds later it was shelved in favor of a clutch Hayden had used in previous years; at the Brno round, he had a problem with the clutch that contributed to a 9th-place finish. Honda and Hayden had difficulty finding a clutch that would allow a good launch at the start but also work well throughout the race. Hayden eventually won the rider championship and Honda reclaimed the constructor's championship.

And so, the saga continues. Pedrosa is making the RC212V work. Hayden seems to have "problems", again this year. May be he should focus more on riding the bike rather than the slogans on his helmet. I hope Hayden does not turn out to be another Biaggi.

Although this is only Pedrosa's 2nd year on the RC21XV series bikes and Hayden's 4th, I think Pedrosa is way ahead of him on the learning curve -- and his quick career progression through the 125cc and 250cc chanpionships supports this.

We got a live one here! Great to see the old Google being fired up so people can show us all how "knowledgeable" they are.

I think they moved the crankshaft coz Hayboy is American, and HRC wanted to screw up his season to get back for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


PS Before the google gang run off to see who won the motogp at Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the last few seasons, they weren't races, they were japanese cities that the USA dropped atomic bombs on.

Yes, I am taking the piss coz some folks really need to chill out.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 26 2007, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Glad to see i'm not the only one who gets myself into a pickle sometimes! Roger you were critising me for this a week or so ago too, how dare you!
well i was a motorcycle mechanic for many years and i graduated from an engineering collage so i understand motorcycle engine more than most,sadly that doesnt mean i can always put my point accross clearly in writing.
the one thing i forgot was a piece of philosophy i learned on this very site.

never debate with idiots,they will drag you down to there level then beat you with experance.

you see povol didnt prove anything all he did was cut and paste some stuff that was slightly different from his original point. just like in the other thread when he was banging on about ducatis being inferer so started talking about nhra stuff,he says he has proved you wrong but never quotes anything.
he said hrc moved the crank because of clutch problems then when aked to expain he talks about the evo bike, 2 different thigs imo.
but who really care's,mabe he will now tell me he is an engineer.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 26 2007, 08:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>well i was a motorcycle mechanic for many years and i graduated from an engineering collage so i understand motorcycle engine more than most,sadly that doesnt mean i can always put my point accross clearly in writing.
the one thing i forgot was a piece of philosophy i learned on this very site.

never debate with idiots,they will drag you down to there level then beat you with experance.

you see povol didnt prove anything all he did was cut and paste some stuff that was slightly different from his original point. just like in the other thread when he was banging on about ducatis being inferer so started talking about nhra stuff,he says he has proved you wrong but never quotes anything.
he said hrc moved the crank because of clutch problems then when aked to expain he talks about the evo bike, 2 different thigs imo.
but who really care's,mabe he will now tell me he is an engineer.


Another useful peice of advice Roger, "You cant teach pork" says it all really....

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 26 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another useful peice of advice Roger, "You cant teach pork" says it all really....

Pete

mmm pork, i love pork! mmm apple sauce, pork and apple sauce.. mmm cracklin'.. mm i love a good cracklin' on a juicy joint of pork!! here piggy piggy!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 26 2007, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Another useful peice of advice Roger, "You cant teach pork" says it all really....

Pete
yeah mate, im not even going to bother trying ignorance is blis for some people,so leave em to it i say, now i got to go and move that crank cos the cluch is knackered

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HiMyNameIsDan @ Mar 26 2007, 09:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>mmm pork, i love pork! mmm apple sauce, pork and apple sauce.. mmm cracklin'.. mm i love a good cracklin' on a juicy joint of pork!! here piggy piggy!!
with talk like that you will end up looking like your avitar

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Mar 26 2007, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> yeah mate, im not even going to bother trying ignorance is blis for some people,so leave em to it i say, now i got to go and move that crank cos the cluch is knackered

umm i already do mate haha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (crvlvr @ Mar 26 2007, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden's 4th
actually it's his 5th.

that makes it even worse.

Lets face it. Hayden can barely speak english (although it is better so far this season) so how can he be expected to relate what's going on with the bike to people who actually understand technical lingo?

Last season Edwards had fits with chassis setup and was constantly amazed with Rossi's ability to not only go fast but to actually WIN on the Yamaha.

Winners WIN caretakers have people make excuses as to why they don't win.

SS

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 26 2007, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they moved the crankshaft coz Hayboy is American, and HRC wanted to screw up his season to get back for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Mar 26 2007, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think they moved the crankshaft coz Hayboy is American, and HRC wanted to screw up his season to get back for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
PS Before the google gang run off to see who won the motogp at Hiroshima and Nagasaki for the last few seasons, they weren't races, they were japanese cities that the USA dropped atomic bombs on.

that made my day basspete thanks

Liz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2007, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dont know about this year,but last year's clutch problem had nothing to do with Hayden.They were testing new clutches up until the last 2 races on Haydens bike and not Pedrosa's.Not only were they trying different clutch's, they were not even in the same place.The crankshaft was even moved to try a developmental clutch assembly.Bottom line,Hayden's bike was the lab rat when it came to clutch testing.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2007, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>RC212V
In 2006 Nicky Hayden of the Repsol Honda team won the championship on a 'Evo' version of the RC211V. Nicky's bike was significantly different than the other 4 RC211V's as it featured a revised, more compact frame, a more compact engine, a different swingarm, and a different clutch. HRC's goal with this machine was to develop concepts that could then be applied to the 800 cc RC212V.

Tell me when you have had enough,i can make you look more foolish than you allready do.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CaptainSnow @ Mar 26 2007, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>For clarificastion, povol is right.
The clutch was in all different places and the 2006 bike hayden rode was a test bed all season long.

no1 had problems except hayden with the clutch.
they even fired the test rider in japan and got a new guy and apaprently the new guy figured out the problem and gave him a new clutch that was better for the last 2 rounds.

although it still worried him.

The truth is that in 2006 Nicky Hayden was the lead rider and as lead rider your job is to develop the bike. When Rossi was the lead rider, the developed the bike and won the championship. When Biaggi and Barros were lead riders they were in charge as well but they lost the championship. Nicky won it when he was the lead rider so in my book based purely on facts, Hayden is the better rider than Biaggi and Barros.

Now, Pedrosa and Hayden are both co-lead riders.. HRC will definitely go in different directions for both of them but will ultimately want a package that other Honda riders will win in.. That is Honda's philosophy that the machine is the champion..

In Jerez, both Pedrosa and Hayden fell back in the later stages of the race, but Hayden's falling back was more visible.. Pedrosa has good talent to ride around his problems like Rossi does.. in fact, I can recall that Pedrosa mentioned that his 250 bike had problems even though he won the race..

I don't like the talk that Hayden was a lab rat... does that mean that all Honda lead riders were lab rats? Sure it is easy for us Americans to come up with excuses why the American is being biased.. but why no one mentioned that Edwards didn't get any good parts from Yammi until Portugal! Rossi was a huge lab rat last season when things didn't go well... but does anybody say that? So what is Hayden is not as talented as Rossi or even Pedrosa.. in this world, you don't have to be the best to be on top of the world. You just have to keep fighting and not give up.. I'm sure Hayden will continue to fight!

^^^props to you chemikaze,

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Mar 27 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The truth is that in 2006 Nicky Hayden was the lead rider and as lead rider your job is to develop the bike.
I made a comment in another thread a while back about this. Pedrosa didn't want/probably wasn't considered as the lead rider/developer because it was his rookie year, but why wouldn't Hayden want the job? The press often mentioned his reluctance to take on the role. Wouldn't most riders leap at the chance to be first in line to try all the shiny new go-fast bits?

I guess the only caveat with this stems from the whole EVO bike theory, i.e. up to 80% of the bike was testing parts for the 800cc machine. Rather than developing things for the 2006 bike, he was doing stuff for 2007. This theory is where all the lab rat stuff about Hayden stems from, I think, and would go some way to explain his reluctance. How accurate it is, who knows? Certainly Hayden's 2006 bike had some obvious physical differences from the other 2006 Hondas, but is it really the logical way to develop a new bike--during races, and in such a hybrid fashion?

roger-m's comment about raising the crank giving a rise in RPMs I thought curious. The 800s rev higher than the 990s did, right? Is there something to that? [BTW, I do remember a lot of commentators and press items talking about Hayden's weird clutch and its problems and raising the crank; whether the two issues and modifactions were actually related or just simultaneous is something I'm far from qualified to talk about.]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChemiKaze @ Mar 27 2007, 10:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>but why no one mentioned that Edwards didn't get any good parts from Yammi until Portugal!
I'm sure he got some for Assen; and after that debacle they probably took them away again...

Another thing I think worth mentioning: The trinkle-down effect of new parts from lead rider to team mate, and to teams on a lower level only happens once the new stuff has been tested and actually found to be good or better than the existing stuff. And even then what works for the lead rider might not work for others (Edwards even said something to this effect last year). Maybe Melandri isn't getting his new parts because the 2007 Honda is less than it should be, and the modifications to date haven't made it any better...

i wonder how many parts the 800 rc212v actualy shares with the rc211v evo bearing in mind one was a v5 and the new bike is a v4.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Mar 26 2007, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dont know about this year,but last year's clutch problem had nothing to do with Hayden.

Thats not true