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danski · May 11, 2016

JPSLotus said:
That is such a bogus claim.

3-1...really?

Respected journalists aren't going to say .... other than what they think DORNA wants to hear.

Press credentials are the most important thing to the journalist covering MotoGP as a career. The very threat of having those credentials revoked keeps everyone in line because it's better to toe a fine line, than to broach it outright and then not have a job afterwards. Even Kropo who has come closer to saying things that most journalists won't, still doesn't cross that fine line.

What do you even qualify as a neutral?

Kropotkin was offered the chance of a one to one interview with VR and turned it down so he wouldn't feel beholden, that's how much he's in their pocket. Similarly Jules Ryder says when he finds Rossi wrong. Yes there are ones that you could say are biased but any journo worth his salt will give the truth.

Richy56 · May 11, 2016

Daniboy said:
Kropotkin was offered the chance of a one to one interview with VR and turned it down so he wouldn't feel beholden, that's how much he's in their pocket. Similarly Jules Ryder says when he finds Rossi wrong. Yes there are ones that you could say are biased but any journo worth his salt will give the truth.

That's .......... Read the program by David Walsh then you'll learn about 99.9 % of so respected journalists

danski · May 11, 2016

Richy56 said:
That's .......... Read the program by David Walsh then you'll learn about 99.9 % of so respected journalists

Read it yourself, I've spent enough time on this planet to know what a good and bad journo is, David Emmett happens to be a really decent one. With a lot of well earned respect inside the paddock.

michaelm · May 11, 2016

JPSLotus said:
That is such a bogus claim.

3-1...really?

Respected journalists aren't going to say .... other than what they think DORNA wants to hear.

Press credentials are the most important thing to the journalist covering MotoGP as a career. The very threat of having those credentials revoked keeps everyone in line because it's betterM to toe a fine line, than to broach it outright and then not have a job afterwards. Even Kropo who has come closer to saying things that most journalists won't, still doesn't cross that fine line.

What do you even qualify as a neutral?

Even apart from whether journalists may be constrained for whatever reason, which may include a desire to remain in employment, MM is likely to be better informed as to whether he was kicked than any journalist , objective or otherwise, and Dorna banned Honda from showing footage which they claimed proved MM 's contention.

I personally continue to doubt he deliberately kicked MM, but his foot may have been involved in the contact between the riders, contact for which VR was entirely responsible.

Richy56 · May 11, 2016

Daniboy said:
Read it yourself, I've spent enough time on this planet to know what a good and bad journo is, David Emmett happens to be a really decent one. With a lot of well earned respect inside the paddock.

I have read it otherwise I wouldn't have said it thanks. Anyway you don't need a journalists opinion for that incident you just need eyes.

danski · May 11, 2016

Richy56 said:
I have read it otherwise I wouldn't have said it thanks. Anyway you don't need a journalists opinion for that incident you just need eyes.

I saw it, why use insults to attempt to prove your point? I watched it and all the replays and there was no kick, but because people on here (and only here) are in denial when truth is told, they invite the use of other sources to reinforce that, such as the myriad of words online that are available to see , the ones that say there's no kick!

Jumkie · May 11, 2016

Daniboy said:
I saw it, why use insults to attempt to prove your point? I watched it and all the replays and there was no kick, but because people on here (and only here) are in denial when truth is told, they invite the use of other sources to reinforce that, such as the myriad of words online that are available to see , the ones that say there's no kick!

Maybe because the guy who said he got kicked isn't known for manipulating the media and making baseless accusations. And the guy who deliberately caused a crash, known for manipulating the media (that's a euphemism for dishonesty) said he didn't kick, perhaps understanding he might face a forced-hand penalty? Maybe that has something to do with it.

Two guys involved. One said a kick occur. The victim of a deliberate attack, fact. The other guy said no kick occurred. The perpetrator of the attack. But of course, a perpetrator has never lied to get out of further punishment, right?

danski · May 11, 2016

Jumkie said:
Maybe because the guy who said he got kicked isn't known for manipulating the media and making baseless accusations. And the guy who deliberately caused a crash, known for manipulating the media said he didn't kick knowing he might face a forced-hand penalty? Maybe that has something to do with it.

Only in a few minds is the crash deliberate and premeditated, when it was actually just an unfortunate byproduct of a stupid maneuver by Rossi, his foot came off the footrest after the crash had already begun.

moto vudu · May 11, 2016

Often times even the riders have to look at camera footage to see exactly what happened during an incident. The cameras show Rossi's foot stayed on the peg until Marquez made contact with Rossi's bike. It's not hard to believe that Rossi's leg was knocked or pulled off the peg as Marc fell. If MM looked up as he was falling he may have seen Rossi's leg off the peg and thought Rossi kicked out at him. I don't blame anyone for thinking there was a kick while initially watching the incident, but after watching all the videos and slow motion gifs that were posted... if you still claim there was a kick you're motivated by something other than posting facts.

Jumkie · May 11, 2016

The attack was on video, yet you have people like Daniboy insisting it was not deliberate. Though Rossi admitted it was deliberate. Then Rossi said he didn't mean for Marc to crash, his fans of course believe him. Vudu, video is of no consequence as you can see. Your post simply gives Rossi the benefit of the doubt. Many people say the video is "inconclusive" yet have 'concluded' Rossi is telling the truth. Contradiction. Dennis Noyes is adamant the kick didn’t occur. And like you, has said Marquez may have imagined it. Again giving the benefit of the doubt to the PERPETRATOR of the event.

Tell me something Vudu, can you tell me another scenario in life where the 'admitted' perpetrator is given the benefit of the doubt wilst the victim is vilified for suspicion of integrity?

You are not certain a kick occurred, but you are certain Rossi deliberately initiated the attack. From that initial point you then flip to believe Rossi had honest intention after moments before being out of his mind? It was a mental meltdown that caused him to attack, but during this meltdown he was momentarily sane?

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

danski · May 11, 2016

The crash wasn't deliberately caused, running wide was , isn't it easy to adjust the order of a few words to create an entirely different meaning ?

moto vudu · May 11, 2016

Jumkie said:
The attack was on video, yet you have people like Daniboy insisting it was not deliberate. Though Rossi admitted it was deliberate. Then Rossi said he didn't mean for Marc to crash, his fans of course believe him. Vudu, video is of no consequence as you can see. Your post simply gives Rossi the benefit of the doubt. Many people say the video is "inconclusive" yet have 'concluded' Rossi is telling the truth. Contradiction. Dennis Noyes is adamant the kick didn’t occur. And like you, has said Marquez may have imagined it. Again giving the benefit of the doubt to the PERPETRATOR of the event.

Tell me something Vudu, can you tell me another scenario in life where the 'admitted' perpetrator is given the benefit of the doubt wilst the victim is vilified for suspicion of integrity?

You are not certain a kick occurred, but you are certain Rossi deliberately initiated the attack. From that initial point you then flip to believe Rossi had honest intention after moments before being out of his mind? It was a mental meltdown that caused him to attack, but during this meltdown he was momentarily sane?

Content Warning: Look ....... (.)(.)

The act of slowing down and running Marc wide was deliberate. It doesn't matter what Rossi says about kicking, the multiple camera angles that we have all seen do not show any evidence of a kick. I don't feel I have to give Rossi the benefit of the doubt. I saw Marc's bike start to fall as soon as he made contact with Rossi. That is indicative his brake lever was pinched on Rossi's bike (or leg). Rossi would've needed to kick before Marc's bike made contact of after. Again, cameras show his foot was on the peg prior to the contract. If Rossi kicked after the contact, there would've been a delay in Marc losing the front. That would have to be one amazing no-look kick that was pinpoint accurate to miss the brake guard and land squarely on the brake lever while turning and accelerating a 250hp GP bike. Not to mention he had to execute the kick so fast that even high definition video cameras couldn't capture it. Now that's talent, talent you & JPS claim Rossi lacks because he can apparently only win if he has special tires flown in for him the night before a race.

Jumkie · May 11, 2016

Daniboy said:
The crash wasn't deliberately caused, running wide was , isn't it easy to adjust the order of a few words to create an entirely different meaning ?

You've separated one continuous incident into false increments. That is why you can arrive from 'deliberate' to 'un-deliberate'. This has been the single most utilized false logic to arrive at the opposite conclusion. You accept Rossi deliberately perpetrated the attack, but then exonerate him of the consequence because the victim didn’t run away successfully enough to Rossi's movement aimed at confusing his victim. Fascinating!

yamfan · May 11, 2016

As I've said before, only those two riders are qualified to say whether or not there was a kick. Respected journalists weren't riding the bikes and have to rely on sketch video footage and poor angles, which is why I asked if anyone would know if any on bike footage may have been withheld. Dorna and RD have access to all cameras and both bikes cameras were working after the race.
In my opinion none of us are categorically entitled to state kick or no kick.
This isn't an anti VR statement guys, I've seen footage that implies there may have been and other that implies not, but I'd not stake my life on either, unlike some seem willing to do so.
Why can't we just agree to disagree, more importantly why can't ALL the riders learn to respect each other and VR make his appeal for the fans to stop the madness that's creeping into the sport?

danski · May 11, 2016

I accept Rossi ran him wide.' Attack' is your choice of word, lets say for a more dramatic effect no? Lets summarize ....

Rossi ran Marquez wide.
Marquez crashed.
That's all folks.

I love this sport, bring on the next race!!!

Cool Blue · May 11, 2016

yamfan said:
While this subject has been done to death, I'd like to make a point/ask a question.
Is the forward/rear facing camera on the tailpiece of the bikes, one internal rotating unit, or is it two separate cameras in one housing?
Whilst we have all this log distance and helicopter footage available, surely the forward facing cameras on the tailpieces of both bikes would add clarity to the truth. Maybe the rotating camera we see swivelling from one rider to another picked it up and the powers that be are withholding the images, who knows and now cares.
Let's face it, 1 rider said there was a kick, 1 said there wasn't. Only those two riders know the truth if the video evidence is inconclusive.
That's my take on it anyway...

Good point about the forward facing cameras.

If you analyse the video carefully you will see Rossi is propelled forward in the seat at the point when his left leg starts to move forward to put his foot back on the peg. You can clearly see his hips move forward relative to the seat. You can also clearly see his shoulder and at least his left arm brace and take weight against the handlebars at the same time. His elbow is forced out slightly. It was clearly a kick. Cannot say if it was aimed at any particular target but it was a ....... kick.

Just because some air head journalist isn't bright enough or logical enough to see this and realise what it means doesn't mean anything.
The forward facing cameras would have been very good data indeed and their conspicuous absence is telling.

MM was there and he said there was a kick. Rossi said what? I don't even remember. Did he say there was no kick or did he obfuscate or avoid answering directly?
Whatever he said, he has already discredited himself with his disingenuous use of the media to blatantly build prejudice against MM.

Cool Blue · May 11, 2016

Daniboy said:
I accept Rossi ran him wide.' Attack' is your choice of word, lets say for a more dramatic effect no? Lets summarize ....

Rossi ran Marquez wide.
Rossi kicked out at Marquez

Marquez crashed.

That's all folks.

I love this sport, bring on the next race!!!

Fixed it for you.

Barbedwirebikerr · May 11, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

Aw Mang · May 11, 2016

#22 · May 11, 2016

yamfan said:
While this subject has been done to death, I'd like to make a point/ask a question.
Is the forward/rear facing camera on the tailpiece of the bikes, one internal rotating unit, or is it two separate cameras in one housing?

It's a single rotating unit, so wouldnt have been recording front and rear fottage simultaneously. This is the best picture I could find online of the latest one:

The earlier ones have a schematic on the MotoGP website which I found interesting.

onboardcamerascomparison.gallery_full_top_lg.jpg

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