Help needed for info about SNS and Bridgestone switch.

Arrabbiata1 said:

Where, how?

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Don't tell me you have missed it all!

Daniboy said:

As long as nobody gets hurt and it's within the rules yes, it's a cutthroat world from every aspect, most successful people have a ruthless streak.

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Daniboy, you are mistaken, people do get hurt, their lifelong dedication to become world champions are thwarted by a rigged system. That's bad enough but if they actually succeed against all odds, their environment becomes hostile.

When they try their best and actually beat Rossi their lives become a nightmare, their reward is a hostile work environment. Every single person who has beat Rossi has at a point become the object of disparaging: Hayden, Stoner, Lorenzo, and Marquez.

Hayden had to defend his honor against an overwhelming fanbase that follow Rossi's lead.
Stoner had to defend his honor against an overwhelming fanbase that follow Rossi's lead.
Lorenzo has to defend his honor against an overwhelming fanbase that follow Rossi's lead.
Marquez has to defend his honor against an overwhelming fanbase that follow Rossi's lead.

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if it was just the jeering and open disrespect of the fans, but they also have to contend against the very organization that acts as an extension of the Yellow fanbase.

You seem to be part of the problem Daniboy, because like this particular fanbase, you continue to defend the inequity of the system. Though not surprising. The perversion of reason has been fascinating. Kropos just had an exchange on his twitter, he asked Rossi fans to stop booing because it makes "Rossi look bad." That's an odd rationale, but I see the reverse psychology tactic. Thing is any attempt at logical reason is doomed to fail, just like this thread. Two Rossi apologists responded saying Lorenzo had "disrespected" (thumbs down) Rossi and so deserved booing. To which Kropo responded, did not Rossi show disrespect when he forced Marquez wide and off the track, does he (Rossi) deserve to get booed? This is where it got good. Much like your rationale Daniboy on the subject of a rigged system, this person argued the exact opposite of reason. Black has become white. The response was, Rossi taking Marquez wide was the 'safest' thing to do because he slowed Marc down to stop him from endangering their lives. That is the levels of perversion this incident has reached! Marquez engaged Rossi in clean racing, the exact type of racing that Rossi is admired for, now so egregious to this person justified the elimination Marquez by putting him in immediate danger!

I read it and shake my head in disbelief. It reminds me of the rationalization that has enabled human tragedy throughout history. The rationale becomes so absurd so perverted that no amount of reasonable logic or sense of justice is accepted, to the contrary, the sense of justice is for the injuring party!

I just read a awful story of a 13 year old girl being ..... by her father in India. She was whipped by the village elders in response. Of course this is not the same, nor like segregation, the point is to highlight the perversion of meaning, logic, and reason. It's all backwards. The victims are criminals. The perpetrator a hero worthy of "honor" and admiration.

Dr No said:

The article I recall was TV viewing numbers dropping in 07...

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I've been looking, and what it seems more of is Dorna made the claim.

There's literally nothing out there so far that I can find that actually validates this. I'm going to keep looking though.

I did find this site that gives US ratings for sports, and the 2007 Laguna Seca race garnered a 0.8 Nielsen rating. I think that's about the sort of TV crowd they were pulling at that time in the US, and to be doing that in the middle of the season when it was clear Stoner was walking away with the title might be a direct rebuttal of the Dorna claims. On the flipside, the US fans also seemed far more appreciative of Stoner than the European fanbase ever was.

Everything But the Game: Overnight Sports Nielsen TV Ratings: 07/16/2007 - 07/22/2007

In November 2007, Superbikeplanet had a post about Rossi and the 2007 season, and this one sentence was in there...

Rossi's lack of '07 success—if you can call it that—reportedly made TV ratings for MotoGP dive all over Europe.

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Soup :: Rossi: His Own Personal Apocalypse :: 11-13-2007

The tone is skeptical since the author used the word reportedly. It seems it was accepted fact that the ratings nose-dived, but there was never any numbers put out. Not sure if Kropo knows, or might have some information somewhere.

I've never said Rossi was right to do what he did to Marquez, I understand why and how he lost the plot. However many many sports idols have also had the red mist descend and while rightly vilified at the time people moved on and the event was forgotten. Remember Zidane, Becks, Rooney and countless others kicking and head-butting their way into the back pages, do people go on about those infractions now ?

How many have lost it in MOTOGP is the big question? Werent Zidane, Becks, Rooney all punished to the same degree as well?
Edit: Punished to the degree of offence

Daniboy said:

I've never said Rossi was right to do what he did to Marquez, I understand why and how he lost the plot. However many many sports idols have also had the red mist descend and while rightly vilified at the time people moved on and the event was forgotten. Remember Zidane, Becks, Rooney and countless others kicking and head-butting their way into the back pages, do people go on about those infractions now ?

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Fair enough. Though headbutts don't quite put the other player in immediate danger for their lives. Surely you don't believe like many have expressed, going down "slowly" during a hot track, in an impact zone, was "safe". Compare the reaction by the governing bodies. A mere bite saw Suarez banned for half a year. Even the headbutt incident of Zidane resulted in soccer's version of a black flag. In addition he was banned 3 matches. Contrast it to Rossi. He was allowed to stay in the race, the 16 points he got by violent means were allowed to stand. The only man to publicly express disapproval has become an object of "justified" scorn.

It's why I described the debacle and the reaction as a complete perversion.

Jumkie said:

Fair enough. Though headbutts don't quite put the other player in immediate danger for their lives. Surely you don't believe like many have expressed, going down "slowly" during a hot track, in an impact zone, was "safe". Compare the reaction by the governing bodies. A mere bite saw Suarez banned for half a year. Even the headbutt incident of Zidane resulted in soccer's version of a black flag. In addition he was banned 3 matches. Contrast it to Rossi. He was allowed to stay in the race, the 16 points he got by violent means were allowed to stand. The only man to publicly express disapproval has become an object of "justified" scorn.

It's why I described the debacle and the reaction as a complete perversion.

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Motorcycle racing is extremely dangerous even if the protection is better than it was 20 years ago. Reacting to perceived slights on the circuit can cause another rider to be killed. If you crash at 40MPH on a public road, you can easily be killed, or at the minimum have serious injuries depending on how you hit the ground. So why it was thought to be not that big of a deal that MM was "only" doing 40MPH instead of 150+ was mind boggling. It was as bad a leap of faith as the one that had people swearing MM was out to ruin VR's race at Phillip Island.

Daniboy said:

I've never said Rossi was right to do what he did to Marquez, I understand why and how he lost the plot. However many many sports idols have also had the red mist descend and while rightly vilified at the time people moved on and the event was forgotten. Remember Zidane, Becks, Rooney and countless others kicking and head-butting their way into the back pages, do people go on about those infractions now ?

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Dani, this is why VR's actions were unforgiveable:

Everyone is laughing, but it is not funny because we are playing with our lives and riding at 200mph. On bikes that are very powerful and very heavy. It is not mini-bikes. It is a dangerous sport, so you have to think what you do. -Jorge Lorenzo

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Daniboy said:

I've never said Rossi was right to do what he did to Marquez, I understand why and how he lost the plot. However many many sports idols have also had the red mist descend and while rightly vilified at the time people moved on and the event was forgotten. Remember Zidane, Becks, Rooney and countless others kicking and head-butting their way into the back pages, do people go on about those infractions now ?

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I remember Shearer kicking Neil Lennon in the head at Filbert Street - very clearly in fact, given that I was sitting several rows in front of the incident when it happened. (I mentioned this to Jum recently in respect of Vardy's two match ban given that Shearer successfully played the England card to the FA to escape a suspension). His excuse was, if you recall and are familiar with the incident, that Lennon had head butted his boot!!! Unbelievable - yet it was clear to see from being there and video evidence what happened. Reminds me of the posts on here defending Rossi who intentionally pushing Marc at a corner thereby interfering with his line then blaming Marquez for turning into him. So when I punch a Rossi fanatic very hard in the face for 'chatting ....' - the fact that they 'get banged' is entirely justifiable, because they collided with my fist? Seriously though, I'm a very passive person, but if at Silverstone this year I spot any of these fly by night fuckers cheering an accident I swear to God we will be having words.

Back to Sepang, you're right Daniboy...it has been debated to death. From an objective standpoint and I've maintained this all along, all you have to consider is the outrage had the 'boot been on the other foot' so to speak...what if Marquez had done this to Rossi? or God forbid, Stoner at Laguna in 2008? So thousands of Rossi fans the world over would be condemning Valentino for 'turning in when forced wide and making contact' and exonerating Casey or Marc in the process?

Debate over.

JPSLotus said:

Dani, this is why VR's actions were unforgiveable:

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He didn't punt him off at 200 mph though, and there was no real injury incurred as the speed was slow. The real damage was done in the PC before they even got on track, just for the record I think Rossi was a proper cockhead for his outburst, really painted himself into a corner there. But he got the punishment and it was just about right for the offence. Thankfully the appeal was rejected and at the end of the day he lost the championship by not being fast enough in the races after the summer break.

Jakrap said:

How many have lost it in MOTOGP is the big question? Werent Zidane, Becks, Rooney all punished to the same degree as well?

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"Pushed to the same degree?" How was Rossi "pushed" to meltdown? Please elaborate. How was Rossi 'provoked?

As I recall, Zidane and Mazzaradi (can't remember how to spell his name) had been talking .... to 'eachother' during the game. Zidane claimed the Italian insulted his mother or some ...., right? Hahaha, I'm laughing just at the absurdity of it. I can't remember what Mazzaradi claimed, something about verbal insults too. Words to physical violence. That is the connection often made to justify it.

Yesterday I saw a clip of a Jamaican international named Romeo Parks literally kick a guy in the back. This wasn't during play. The ref had just ejected both players. As one of the guys was walking off the pitch, the Parks surprised attacked him with an open studs kick to the spine. The team of the perpetrator immediately terminated his contract! They fired the guy on the spot. I'm sure he will be subject to a lengthy ban. Contrast this to Rossi. Not only was he not black flagged, but his employer defended the violent act!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSL_EKZZ2v4
This was dangerous, can we have a six month discussion about this one too?

Daniboy said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSL_EKZZ2v4
This was dangerous, can we have a six month discussion about this one too?

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We did at the time. The sane people argued it was dangerous. However, since Rossi had got away with it in 05, then the move was celebrated for its "brilliance."

I see you have surmised since Rossi's assault on Marquez was done at a "slow" speed you negate the element of danger. Of course when Rossi initiated the attack it was at full speed, but I guess you're just focused on the last part. Maybe you should view it in slow motion, it appears less dangerous that way. Maybe Rossi was just pulling over to invite Marquez for tea.

Daniboy said:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jSL_EKZZ2v4
This was dangerous, can we have a six month discussion about this one too?

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No need - as Jum recollects...

Jumkie said:

We did at the time. The sane people argued it was dangerous. However, since Rossi had got away with it in 05, then the move was celebrated for its "brilliance."

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On the other hand, I'm more than willing to waste innumerable posts speculating as to why the guy that posted this video on YouTube chose to soundtrack it with MGMT.

Jumkie said:

We did at the time. The sane people argued it was dangerous. However, since Rossi had got away with it in 05, then the move was celebrated for its "brilliance."

I see you have surmised since Rossi's assault on Marquez was done at a "slow" speed you negate the element of danger. Of course when Rossi initiated the attack it was at full speed, but I guess you're just focused on the last part. Maybe you should view it in slow motion, it appears less dangerous that way. Maybe Rossi was just pulling over to invite Marquez for tea.

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Rossi slowing down and pulling MM off line when there wasn't another rider anywhere near the two of them was safer than the numerous hard passes they had just put on each other moments before. MM wasn't doing anything against the rules, but he wasn't riding like some sort of safety ambassador as some of you are implying. He was fired up and seeing some red mist himself. He was in full "Murder Mac" mode, it's just that Rossi struck first before MM could ready his torpedo.

Jumkie said:

"Pushed to the same degree?" How was Rossi "pushed" to meltdown? Please elaborate. How was Rossi 'provoked?

As I recall, Zidane and Mazzaradi (can't remember how to spell his name) had been talking .... to 'eachother' during the game. Zidane claimed the Italian insulted his mother or some ...., right? Hahaha, I'm laughing just at the absurdity of it. I can't remember what Mazzaradi claimed, something about verbal insults too. Words to physical violence. That is the connection often made to justify it.

Yesterday I saw a clip of a Jamaican international named Romeo Parks literally kick a guy in the back. This wasn't during play. The ref had just ejected both players. As one of the guys was walking off the pitch, the Parks surprised attacked him with an open studs kick to the spine. The team of the perpetrator immediately terminated his contract! They fired the guy on the spot. I'm sure he will be subject to a lengthy ban. Contrast this to Rossi. Not only was he not black flagged, but his employer defended the violent act!

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Never meant Pushed, Punished. Should have been more clear. Punished to the degree of offence is what was meant.

Rossi was let away lightly and he was allowed to keep the points which was absurd. Rossi should have been shown an immediate black flag for setting in motion a deliberate chain of events which caused a competitor to crash. Dorna chickened out. As you said correctly, it is kind of ridiculous why Yamaha continued to support him.

Have always wondered how a sport can be dominated by one guy! Last time I checked it, was Lance on the bike. Incidentally he was a 7 time champ too.

moto vudu said:

Rossi slowing down and pulling MM off line when there wasn't another rider anywhere near the two of them was safer than the numerous hard passes they had just put on each other moments before. MM wasn't doing anything against the rules, but he wasn't riding like some sort of safety ambassador as some of you are implying. He was fired up and seeing some red mist himself. He was in full "Murder Mac" mode, it's just that Rossi struck first before MM could ready his torpedo.

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I bolded the relevant portion, which is a complete unfounded and ........ statement.

How do you know he was fired up and seeing red mist?

You don't, and you cannot possibly even make this claim without being inside his mind at that very moment.

If anything, you've likely made this claim based solely on Mike Webb's assertions MM was doing something.

Close overtakes are not an indication of anything wrong being done. Rossi was keen on crowing post-Laguna 08, "It's racing Casey." What we saw unfolding was racing. If Rossi said nothing at the Sepang press conference, everyone would have been ooooo'ing and ahhhhh'ing over it.

JPSLotus said:

[/b]

I bolded the relevant portion, which is a complete unfounded and ........ statement.

How do you know he was fired up and seeing red mist?

You don't, and you cannot possibly even make this claim without being inside his mind at that very moment.

If anything, you've likely made this claim based solely on Mike Webb's assertions MM was doing something.

Close overtakes are not an indication of anything wrong being done. Rossi was keen on crowing post-Laguna 08, "It's racing Casey." What we saw unfolding was racing. If Rossi said nothing at the Sepang press conference, everyone would have been ooooo'ing and ahhhhh'ing over it.

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I can state any claim or opinion since you and Jums can continuously state your BS tire conspiracy theories with not a shred of supporting evidence. Enlighten us with a story about how Michelin flew in special tires to help JL win at Le Mans. Come on, lets hear you .... on his performance like you would've done if Rossi won again.

moto vudu said:

Rossi slowing down and pulling MM off line when there wasn't another rider anywhere near the two of them was safer than the numerous hard passes they had just put on each other moments before. MM wasn't doing anything against the rules, but he wasn't riding like some sort of safety ambassador as some of you are implying. He was fired up and seeing some red mist himself.

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Absolute ......... That is the fabrication you and the Yellow Hordes have dreamed up out of thin air. Utterly no basis for it.

Marquez rode more cleanly than Iannone at Phillip Island just the previous race. Marquez rode cleaner than Rossi has on a plethora of occasions, I don't remember his fans claiming how dangerous he was, to the contrary, he was admired for bravery and brilliance. Jerez 05, punts Sete, Laguna 08 cuts the Corkscrew out of control, Stoner's evasion action saves a catastrophe (after dangerous moves out of turn 6) Catalunya 09, Motegi 10 makes repeated contact with Lorenzo, Jerez 11 torpedoes Stoner, etc.

Marquez made the type of overtaking that is common with GP's acceptable motorcycle racing the world over. In fact far less aggressive than we've seen Rossi pull. You're absolutely blinded by your worship of the man. You can look at Marc's overtaking at Sepang and not realize it was fair racing. Nobody held a gun to Rossi's helmet to overtake Marquez either. Sepang is thee epitome of Rossi's cowardice to race on the terms he popularized!

moto vudu said:

I can state any claim or opinion since you and Jums can continuously state your BS tire conspiracy theories with not a shred of supporting evidence. Enlighten us with a story about how Michelin flew in special tires to help JL win at Le Mans. Come on, lets hear you .... on his performance like you would've done if Rossi won again.

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I just posted a whole slew of stories about the Saturday Night Specials to support what was going on, and how that impacted the 2007 season, and led to the total ........ of the 2008 season. A time frame which has often been disputed by Rossi fans around here.