Haydens potential right now combined with bike?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jul 16 2009, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I really don't see where you're going with that. A season finishing second in the championship with a half-dozen race wins isn't exactly a poor performance.
Rose tinted glasses are fun, I think that's Rog's point. Stoner fans want to remember 2007 but not 2008. Hayden fans want to remember 2006 and nothing after. Rossi fans wish 2006 and 2007 didn't happen.

That summarizes pretty well, no?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Jul 16 2009, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What a difference a liter of fuel makes!

The problem with the Ducati is that:
-the loss of Loris stopped balanced and widely applicable development
-the electronics rapidly evolved around Casey's enigmatic style
-it's too long
I have 1 of those 3 problems ill let you guys decide which one

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jul 16 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I really don't see where you're going with that. A season finishing second in the championship with a half-dozen race wins isn't exactly a poor performance.
now your putting words into my mouth ! i didn't say it was poor did i ? but the fact is he still finished behind rossi last year and is in third now. if you followed the thread and the quote's you would see where it was going. do we really need to recap every post just for the few that cant follow ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The California Kid @ Jul 16 2009, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I have 1 of those 3 problems ill let you guys decide which one
Yea CK, I have electronic problems as well

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Jul 16 2009, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What a difference a liter of fuel makes!

The problem with the Ducati is that:
-the loss of Loris stopped balanced and widely applicable development
-the electronics rapidly evolved around Casey's enigmatic style
-it's too long
Very succinctly put, and very right Clarky. I would also add, that to compound all this, the curtailment of testing, and the decreased sessions this year - altogether a significant reduction in tracktime - has crucified Nicky in his attempt to tame very difficult animal.

Have you guys stop to think that maybe Hayden isn't all what he's cracked up to be? I mean, sure the guy's got good work ethics, is easy going and charming, but that doesn't mean he's a top level tier racer. He's just a good guy that everyone would like to see succeed, but you have to be honest and say to yourself, if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is.

You put Hayden and DePuniet on the same machine and I'd say DePuniet would run circles around him, that's if he doesn't fall off the bike first. Hayden is just your average Joe racer who's been lucky enough to achieve what he has so far due to Honda..... but I guess many people like him because they can relate to him in that average Joe sort of way and fail to see what's really there. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make him out to be a superhero of sorts.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 16 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You put Hayden and DePuniet on the same machine and I'd say DePuniet would run circles around him, that's if he doesn't fall off the bike first. Hayden is just your average Joe racer who's been lucky enough to achieve what he has so far due to Honda..... but I guess many people like him because they can relate to him in that average Joe sort of way and fail to see what's really there. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make him out to be a superhero of sorts.

Why don't you take out DePunt and put in Melandri because that has been done before. Yeah that's right. Your not very good at driving your point home. Unless of course you think that Melandri is worse than both Hayden and DePunt

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 16 2009, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have you guys stop to think that maybe Hayden isn't all what he's cracked up to be? I mean, sure the guy's got good work ethics, is easy going and charming, but that doesn't mean he's a top level tier racer. He's just a good guy that everyone would like to see succeed, but you have to be honest and say to yourself, if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is.

You put Hayden and DePuniet on the same machine and I'd say DePuniet would run circles around him, that's if he doesn't fall off the bike first. Hayden is just your average Joe racer who's been lucky enough to achieve what he has so far due to Honda..... but I guess many people like him because they can relate to him in that average Joe sort of way and fail to see what's really there. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make him out to be a superhero of sorts.
He isn't all he's cracked up to be? He's a world champion. What else do you need from him? You don't win world championships without being a top level rider. It's been argued to death but any reasonable follower of the sport will tell you the same. If you don't buy it then you're either ignorant or stupid, I won't try to figure out which.

I think you've got it slightly wrong when you say ...if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is. It should read, if not for the introduction of the 800s, Hayden would continue to be a regular podium finisher just as he was on a 990.

de Puniet is fast, faster than most give him credit for. He's nowhere near as fast as Hayden.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 16 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He isn't all he's cracked up to be? He's a world champion. What else do you need from him? You don't win world championships without being a top level rider. It's been argued to death but any reasonable follower of the sport will tell you the same. If you don't buy it then you're either ignorant or stupid, I won't try to figure out which.

I think you've got it slightly wrong when you say ...if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is. It should read, if not for the introduction of the 800s, Hayden would continue to be a regular podium finisher just as he was on a 990.

de Puniet is fast, faster than most give him credit for. He's nowhere near as fast as Hayden.

Well stated.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Jul 16 2009, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have you guys stop to think that maybe Hayden isn't all what he's cracked up to be? I mean, sure the guy's got good work ethics, is easy going and charming, but that doesn't mean he's a top level tier racer. He's just a good guy that everyone would like to see succeed, but you have to be honest and say to yourself, if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is.

You put Hayden and DePuniet on the same machine and I'd say DePuniet would run circles around him, that's if he doesn't fall off the bike first. Hayden is just your average Joe racer who's been lucky enough to achieve what he has so far due to Honda..... but I guess many people like him because they can relate to him in that average Joe sort of way and fail to see what's really there. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make him out to be a superhero of sorts.
If your name wasnt "SuperShinya" i wouldnt have such a problem with your ........ comments, Nicky Hayden is a former Moto GP world champion and has quite a few podiums under his belt unlike a lot of Racers who are said to be better than Nicky. All Shinya has ever done is produce a cool Helmet replica for Arai other than that he can even podium in WSBK. Please change your name to "SuperAyoma" because he is Japans only hope for a future Moto GP world champ

Better than Marcos... less tears to

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Jul 16 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He isn't all he's cracked up to be? He's a world champion. What else do you need from him? You don't win world championships without being a top level rider. It's been argued to death but any reasonable follower of the sport will tell you the same. If you don't buy it then you're either ignorant or stupid, I won't try to figure out which.

I think you've got it slightly wrong when you say ...if not for Honda, he wouldn't be as overhyped as he is. It should read, if not for the introduction of the 800s, Hayden would continue to be a regular podium finisher just as he was on a 990.

de Puniet is fast, faster than most give him credit for. He's nowhere near as fast as Hayden.
Spot on !!
Nicky only started to suffer when the 800's came out. Same as Loris.
Damn I miss the 990's

I think instead that SuperShinya56 said some true things, although I wouln't have expressed them in such a 'strong' way. And here's a Hayden fan writing. I agree DePuniet could be a great rider if followed by a big team. That talking about how switching from 990 to 800 led to Hayden's poor results (I mean poor in relation to his supposed potential) makes me think Rossi's performance and consistency is a bit underrated (winner in 500cc-990cc-800cc classes). I second that in the end Hayden seems to be just a slightly-more-than-average-rider... but at the same time I hope I'm wrong and wish all the best for him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 16 2009, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with what you said about Nicky, I disagree with your take about Stoner.

BTW, not sure if I've welcomed you to the forum, but welcome.
Thanks for welcoming me jumkie. It's nice to be welcomed by the good side. I have been lurking on here for a good six months, being well entertained by the shenanigans the go on here on powerslide. I learned that SS56 just says thing to piss people off, sackywacky is an ....., and pinky he must be some kind of catholic priest or something? Not sure. I taught, okay its time to take my opinions on here to see how many different ways I can be told to .... off. And its been great!
~stylie33

O' and RdP better than 69, maybe you should run a motogp team because the people that do don't agree. Marco though lots of potential, but not better.....yet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 16 2009, 03:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It is amazing how much credit stoner fans give him because he won a championship two years ago. And how much .... hayden get from getting one three years ago. Casey is a good rider, but he won that championship on a bike that was way faster than everyone else's. Nicky earned his championship with consistency and despite a db for a teammate. Casey is the third best rider on the grid. Anyone who suggest he is better than rossi and maybe jorge are just drinking the casey cool aide, be careful we have reason to believe thats what gave him his tummy ache. He drank to much of his own cool aide.
As for Nicky, I think he would be 4th or 5th i points on a honda or yama. He would be fighting with pedders and dovi every race. With the amount of crashes those two have put down, he would easily be fourth in points. With the right bike he would be the 4th/5th best rider on the grid thats plain to see by anyone who isn't a hater.
Casey fans amaze me you guys are dreamers. Do you even watch the races? He is good but not great. If everything is working on the bike he will check out and win. But he never comes out on top when the race is close. He has no ability to battle or find some extra speed late in a race. He is at the top of mediocrity.
As for nicky fans. They are realist. We just want the best results he can get.

I think the difference in the credit that Stoner gets compared to Hayden is that Stoner has remained a title contender since 07, while Nicky's form has disappeared almost completely. Whether or not Casey is as good as Rossi and Lorenzo is a tough one because as usual it relies on your own speculation about the bikes they ride. Many people still considered Rossi the best rider in 07, but that was equally debatable. As for Hayden on the right bike i agree he would be higher up, i think somewhere between Edwards and Dovi, but he isn't on Pedrosas level i don't think. Remember if you hypothetically put Hayden on the 'right' bike, it is only fair to do the same for all the other riders.

Nicky fans vs Stoner fans? It's hard to generalize as both sides have a range of people speaking for them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 17 2009, 06:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sackywacky is an .....


First time I have been called out like that. What gives?

Tom Quote:
I think the difference in the credit that Stoner gets compared to Hayden is that Stoner has remained a title contender since 07, while Nicky's form has disappeared almost completely. Whether or not Casey is as good as Rossi and Lorenzo is a tough one because as usual it relies on your own speculation about the bikes they ride. Many people still considered Rossi the best rider in 07, but that was equally debatable. As for Hayden on the right bike i agree he would be higher up, i think somewhere between Edwards and Dovi, but he isn't on Pedrosas level i don't think. Remember if you hypothetically put Hayden on the 'right' bike, it is only fair to do the same for all the other riders.

Nicky fans vs Stoner fans? It's hard to generalize as both sides have a range of people speaking for them.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 17 2009, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> First time I have been called out like that. What gives?

Oh oh Sack - there's a new gun in town and trying to make hisself
a reputation.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MdubSTYLIE @ Jul 17 2009, 06:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thanks for welcoming me jumkie. It's nice to be welcomed by the good side. I have been lurking on here for a good six months, being well entertained by the shenanigans the go on here on powerslide. I learned that SS56 just says thing to piss people off, sackywacky is an ....., and pinky he must be some kind of catholic priest or something? Not sure. I taught, okay its time to take my opinions on here to see how many different ways I can be told to .... off. And its been great!
~stylie33

Great post. I think you found a home here. Glad that you came out of the shadows and into the light friend.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 17 2009, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Great post. I think you found a home here. Glad that you came out of the shadows and into the light friend.

.... that post

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