Haydens potential right now combined with bike?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mattsteg @ Jul 7 2009, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not really convinced that either has shown themselves to be a serious mid-pack threat. Kallio's "dramatic improvements" aren't much more than one nice post-race test and running well (but not really much better than Hayden. Yes, Hayden should be in front, but they were wheel to wheel until Nicky had his off-track excursion and handlebar incident, and obviously Hayden finished in front.) until crashing out at Assen. He also started the season a bit better than Hayden.

We could very well be overstating the degree to which both riders have "found something". Kallio's injury could slow him, although he has time to heal, or he might have just had a good track or 2. Hayden might be doing better largely because he likes Assen and Laguna, or he might be finding the bike some. Either way, some of his favored tracks are coming up. It could be an illusion like Melandri's China, too.

Either rider may or may not have some nice results coming up. I'm not sure that either has made really dramatic gains yet, but both have shown some signs of steady progress.

All very legitimate questions and statements.
 
Hayden and Ducati both need to find success together. As has been said Ducati will struggle to sign any more top riders if Hayden is added to the list of men who never sussed it. Nicky needs to find success again because if he doesn't his only remaining motogp hopes will be with a satellite team, if anything. I said at the start that i thought Nicky would wind up being in the same position he was last year, approximately 6th and generally the best of the rest. It'd be nice if he can get there.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 7 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden and Ducati both need to find success together. As has been said Ducati will struggle to sign any more top riders if Hayden is added to the list of men who never sussed it. Nicky needs to find success again because if he doesn't his only remaining motogp hopes will be with a satellite team, if anything. I said at the start that i thought Nicky would wind up being in the same position he was last year, approximately 6th and generally the best of the rest. It'd be nice if he can get there.
Tom, do you think the same if he were still on the Honda?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SackWack @ Jul 7 2009, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yeah I meant for Hayden, would Hayden want to stay with Ducati?? If I were him I wouldn't sign on the dotted line just yet.
I am not so sure someone else would want him and give him everything he asks for LIke Ducati.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Jul 7 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Tom, do you think the same if he were still on the Honda?

The same as what? I think had he stayed at HRC his 09 season would be very similar to his 08. I think he'd be slightly behind where Dovi is now.
 
I'm not so sure, I think he would be right where Dovi is now with the Bridgestones. Nicky did a lot of development engine and chassis wise for the bike Dovi and Pedro are riding now.
I can only speculate, but I think Nick would defnitely be doing better this year on the Honda than he did last year, mainly becasue of the control tire.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L8Braker @ Jul 7 2009, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not so sure, I think he would be right where Dovi is now with the Bridgestones. Nicky did a lot of development engine and chassis wise for the bike Dovi and Pedro are riding now.
I can only speculate, but I think Nick would defnitely be doing better this year on the Honda than he did last year, mainly becasue of the control tire.

Good call, i overlooked the tyre thing, but still wouldn't expect him to be better than Dovi in the same situation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 7 2009, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Good call, i overlooked the tyre thing, but still wouldn't expect him to be better than Dovi in the same situation.


Actually a nickname was floating around here at one point. hayden was called Fayden casue he would start out with the leaders and hang for quite some time then fade away. He would cook the tires. If Hayden were still on Honda I could see him doing better than Dovi.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Jul 7 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I will tell you one thing, if Hayden doesn't start showing improvement on the Ducati, they will not be able to attract anyone in the future with promise to their team. This has been their main point with Hayden, to get him up to speed with a setup/development/style that is different then Stoners. To show everyone that the Stoner/Ducati combo is not the only one capable of success. Unlike Melandri who wanted to quit after the first practice session, Nicky has hung in there and kept a positive attitude. The addition of Juan Martinez as crew chief seems to have helped out a lot on the communication side of things and the steady progress they have shown is good. With some great tracks coming up for Hayden, he is in a good position to continue this good form.

I like Hayden, his hard work ethic and determination are very admirable qualities. I just don't think he is a top of the pack rider at this point. With the likes of Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Dovi (when not crashing), and Edwards, in front of him, any finish from 5th to 8th would be solid for him for the rest of the season.
spot on boots, then they can have there revolving door of top riders wanting a seat as opposed to relying on just one guy.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Jul 7 2009, 05:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>lets hope it comes true..... time will tell.

From the little I've read, the big new idea (starting already next year) is to let 'Moto1' bikes (1000cc stock-derived engines on prototype frames, same formula as Moto2) race with 800cc MotoGP. That would allow more teams to enter MotoGP with bikes that could be fairly competitive, at least on certain tracks.

Who knows, the following step could be to drop the 800cc altogether, and allow the engines to evolve more freely--and voila, we would have a 1000cc MotoGP back in 3 years, without Dorna losing face too much. But I think the WSBK guys would object very strongly to their formula being ripped off like that
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jul 7 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>we would have a 1000cc MotoGP back in 3 years, without Dorna losing face too much. But I think the WSBK guys would object very strongly to their formula being ripped off like that
<


Anybody that has been watching GP for at least 4 years knows who ...... up the series. Dorna have already lost their face and to continue with radical changes is not helping. BTW I love WSBK and currently its my favorite series but who gives a .... if they object. Business is cutthroat sometimes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ROCKGOD01 @ Jul 7 2009, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ahh I think a big part of that was because bridgstone had the duel compounds last year and this year they were all single.

Bridgestone didn't have dual compound tires last year.

Earlier this season Bridgestone issued a press release that said they had been planning to bring the dual compound tires back since it was announced that they were going to be the single tire supplier.

Hayden has got easy top 5's waiting for him if he can learn how to set the bike up properly. The Duc is very sensitive to setup so it's going to take him some time. I don't think he will be able to maintain top 5 finishes throughout the year.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 7 2009, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden has got easy top 5's waiting for him if he can learn how to set the bike up properly. The Duc is very sensitive to setup so it's going to take him some time. I don't think he will be able to maintain top 5 finishes throughout the year.

Maybe later, maybe never
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Hayden has made steady progress up the results ever since his DNF at round two in Japan, when he was hit from behind by Yuki Takahashi, claiming 15th, 12th, 12th, 10th, 8th and 5th in the events since. LINK

The numbers are getting smaller.
<


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Time difference - Nicky Hayden to 3rd:
1. Qatar: Hayden 12th - Lorenzo 3rd (32.639sec)
2. Japan: DNF
3. Jerez: Hayden 15th - Stoner 3rd (50.730sec)
4. Le Mans: Hayden 12th - Pedrosa 3rd (36.754sec)
5. Mugello: Hayden 12th - Rossi 3rd (37.046sec)
6. Catalunya: Hayden 10th - Stoner 3rd (24.709sec)
7. Assen: Hayden 8th - Stoner 3rd (16.71sec)
8. Laguna Seca: Hayden 5th - Lorenzo 3rd (19.737sec)



I know, its not really great, but at least its progress. And I'll take anything right now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 15 2009, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden has made steady progress up the results ever since his DNF at round two in Japan, when he was hit from behind by Yuki Takahashi, claiming 15th, 12th, 12th, 10th, 8th and 5th in the events since. LINK

Time difference - Nicky Hayden to 3rd:
1. Qatar: Hayden 12th - Lorenzo 3rd (32.639sec)
2. Japan: DNF
3. Jerez: Hayden 15th - Stoner 3rd (50.730sec)
4. Le Mans: Hayden 12th - Pedrosa 3rd (36.754sec)
5. Mugello: Hayden 12th - Rossi 3rd (37.046sec)
6. Catalunya: Hayden 10th - Stoner 3rd (24.709sec)
7. Assen: Hayden 8th - Stoner 3rd (16.71sec)
8. Laguna Seca: Hayden 5th - Lorenzo 3rd (19.737sec)



I know, its not really great, but at least its progress. And I'll take anything right now.

Dude... You're a stalker !!

I keep thinking about that movie Single White Female whenever you speak of Hayden.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Jul 7 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From the little I've read, the big new idea (starting already next year) is to let 'Moto1' bikes (1000cc stock-derived engines on prototype frames, same formula as Moto2) race with 800cc MotoGP. That would allow more teams to enter MotoGP with bikes that could be fairly competitive, at least on certain tracks.

Who knows, the following step could be to drop the 800cc altogether, and allow the engines to evolve more freely--and voila, we would have a 1000cc MotoGP back in 3 years, without Dorna losing face too much. But I think the WSBK guys would object very strongly to their formula being ripped off like that
<

This would kick Major ...! or they can bring back the 990's.

as for Nicky, if he was still on the Honda hed be doing a lot better than Dovi. Specially with the Bridgestone tires. Dovi hasnt even cracked the podium this year. On the Honda Nicky would have been on the podium at Assen and Laguna for sure, 2 places where Dovi couldnt even finish. He wouldnt be in Contention for the title but definetly in 4th or 5th. At worst he would be where Dovi is now
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slide @ Jul 7 2009, 10:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hayden's gonna be champ again, when they fix the instability of the bike, cuzz thats a mess now...

have you seen stoner on the duc in laguna?(ofc you did) im amazed that he stays on the thing.
last year the thing was twice as stable.

it only has 1 improvement: it sounds even better then last year @ assen. it put a smile on my face every time it came by.

Maybe in some form of superbike racing, but not in motogp....

Bring back the big bikes !!!!!!!!!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Willski @ Jul 15 2009, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe in some form of superbike racing, but not in motogp....

Bring back the big bikes !!!!!!!!!
I'm pretty sure hayden was losing 2/10 a lap just at the corkscrew. Look how fast he got through on the honda vs the ducati. it's crazy.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The California Kid @ Jul 15 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This would kick Major ...! or they can bring back the 990's.

as for Nicky, if he was still on the Honda hed be doing a lot better than Dovi. Specially with the Bridgestone tires. Dovi hasnt even cracked the podium this year. On the Honda Nicky would have been on the podium at Assen and Laguna for sure, 2 places where Dovi couldnt even finish. He wouldnt be in Contention for the title but definetly in 4th or 5th. At worst he would be where Dovi is now

You done smoke yourself stupid. Nicky better than Dovizioso?? Really you should be asking yourself if Hayden is better than Canepa, which is a toss up.
 

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