Greatest ride of all time from the greatest rider of all time

Little Walter said:

What's become of your pleas for civility and non trolling? Like your buddy Tinfoil Jesus the forum rules are selectively applicable.

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Nice to see you call out BM on calling me a ........ for no reason.

Selective reading isn't a virtue.

There is always a reason. Don't take it to heart. As Gaz has said, all Australians are .......... Machine is bestowing honorary Ozzieness on you. Everybody needs to lighten up. Everybody.

michaelm said:

A fair chance he would have had 6, such was his lead in 1992 that he only lost by 4 points despite missing several races and riding the last two crippled by an injury which had nearly cost him his leg. If the season had been 2 weeks longer he might still have won, he did better in the last race than the 2nd last. 1993 the only fair thing is to assume Rainey would have won anyway, there is no evidence available as to what an uninjured Doohan might have done, not that Rainey didn’t deserve the 1992 title as well, he stayed on his bike and beat everyone who turned up on the grid to race him.

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Agree. I was surfing through youtube watching old races thanks to this thread. Would you believe we were still using haybales as late as 2007 at some local tracks? There's a fantastic race between Mladin and Spies that I went to about 25 mins from my house, place called Cali speedway. It's a Nascar oval. Great for Nascar horrible for bike racing. It's embarrassing, they had haybales up everywhere (infield course). We actually have a proper road course, but it's about 1.5 hours from Los Angeles, called Willow Springs. But I guess the lack of accommodations and ownership connection was is a bridge too far, though it has hosted national AMA events.

I don't get the haybales thing though. We put a man on the moon (allegedly) in 1969, we can't come up with a better solution than to stack up haybales and tires? I guess it beats armco...




If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

Gaz said:

Yes.

Doohan would have run over his own mother if he had to and on the track was close to the most ruthless that I have seen .......... and yes, that means that if he had to ride you off the track he would.

Doohan was a winner first, second, third and lastly which means no other position is acceptable.

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Running over his mum makes it sound like he was a dirty rider. Even ruthless doesnt sound right to me, though we are talking about my teenhood hero. I think a better analogy is he would run over himself if it meant becoming world champion. The doc warned him in 1992 one more simple accident could result in loss of leg he replied he simply couldnt live with himself unless he tried, leg or no leg. I find that kind of heroic. But yeah, he could be a ...., he could of used a post race celebration or two rather than a deadpan: what, you want me to slow down?

Jumkie said:

Would you believe we were still using haybales as late as 2007 at some local tracks?

I don't get the haybales thing though. We put a man on the moon (allegedly) in 1969, we can't come up with a better solution than to stack up haybales and tires? I guess it beats armco...

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Closest track to me (Mosport in Ontario, Canada) still uses haybales in front of armco. Unless they have old tires piled up instead.

Superbikes hit 300K there too.

Great track. There have been GP's there in the past.

birdman said:

Running over his mum makes it sound like he was a dirty rider. Even ruthless doesnt sound right to me, though we are talking about my teenhood hero.

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It's funny, a friend of mine is now an orthopedic consultant, he's a bike fiend and lives on the Isle Of Mann and now patches up the racers. Anyway, his teenhood hero is Dr Costa who effectively kidnapped Mick and sewed his legs together to heal.

McZee said:

It's funny, a friend of mine is now an orthopedic consultant, he's a bike fiend and lives on the Isle Of Mann and now patches up the racers. Anyway, his teenhood hero is Dr Costa who effectively kidnapped Mick and sewed his legs together to heal.

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Yes agree Costa saved Mick, it wasnt just his leg btw the flesh was rotten so he (Costa) risked spreading the infection when the legs were sewn which could have resulted in death, worst case. All this was presented to Mick, he went with it and Costa is a hero of mine for what he did. Apparetly there was some spiritual element or bond between them. In his own words, Mick said he wasn't emotional and didn't waste time crying about it, which as an attitude makes people assume he was ruthless but in reality he was simply willing to do whatever it took. Another thing Mick claims if he coulda been w/c in 1992 after the accident he woulda quit. Somehow I doubt that but it sounds like this was the pact he made with himself under terrible circumstances to get or even force himself through. Light at the end of the tunnel, faint as it was. A really fascinating tale not well documented imo.

Mick is a ...... legend and there are no two ways about it, but I have always felt that he would have had to work a bit harder to be a 5 time world champ of Taddy Okada had a V4 instead of Criville.

synn said:

Mick is a ...... legend and there are no two ways about it, but I have always felt that he would have had to work a bit harder to be a 5 time world champ of Taddy Okada had a V4 instead of Criville.

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Micks actual technique on a bike was very poor. Mick was a surfer in his youth btw not a bike rider, not like nowdays when they dedicate so young. He figured he didnt have to work at it just rely on talent alone, which got him to 500cc. From there he hit a brick wall. Rossi is far superior technique wise or even according to Burgess in understanding what the bike is doing or what it requires. Mick said just give me the damn thing.

birdman said:

Yes agree Costa saved Mick, it wasnt just his leg btw the flesh was rotten so he (Costa) risked spreading the infection when the legs were sewn which could have resulted in death, worst case. All this was presented to Mick, he went with it and Costa is a hero of mine for what he did. Apparetly there was some spiritual element or bond between them. In his own words, Mick said he wasn't emotional and didn't waste time crying about it, which as an attitude makes people assume he was ruthless but in reality he was simply willing to do whatever it took. Another thing Mick claims if he coulda been w/c in 1992 after the accident he woulda quit. Somehow I doubt that but it sounds like this was the pact he made with himself under terrible circumstances to get or even force himself through. Light at the end of the tunnel, faint as it was. A really fascinating tale not well documented imo.

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As someone who posted on another forum as Doohanfan, I think whatever it took is the best description of his attitude, he was uncompromising rather than unfair/dirty.

MadMax said:

Closest track to me (Mosport in Ontario, Canada) still uses haybales in front of armco. Unless they have old tires piled up instead.

Superbikes hit 300K there too.

Great track. There have been GP's there in the past.

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I was there at this race, remember it well. The race was good between Mladin and Spies, but fair warning, the track is shyte! These two were so good they regularly lapped the field. Look at all those haybales and cones, embarrassing. This is a modern facility too, closest track to downtown Los Angeles. They have the space and money to at least construct a track like Indy (not great either but for godsakes not amateur).

birdman said:

Running over his mum makes it sound like he was a dirty rider. Even ruthless doesnt sound right to me, though we are talking about my teenhood hero. I think a better analogy is he would run over himself if it meant becoming world champion. The doc warned him in 1992 one more simple accident could result in loss of leg he replied he simply couldnt live with himself unless he tried, leg or no leg. I find that kind of heroic. But yeah, he could be a ...., he could of used a post race celebration or two rather than a deadpan: what, you want me to slow down?

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Hey Compa, agree, not dirty, but rather as i said, extremely driven. Scroll to about 2:25, Doohan talks about the track invasion of the Spanish GP, he says Alex lost his concentration and he took advantage (similar to what Dennis Noyes describes). Mick also says Alex crashed trying to make up for his loss of concentration, and muses as to why Criville was so determined at the Australian GP. Something very interesting that Mick says, and something I've considered, was that the crash (at the AusGP) was caused by him braking a bit more than Alex expected. It was easy to blame Criville for that incident, the optics looked bad, especially after the SpanishGP incident, but I saw it more of a 'mistake' by Doohan. Either way, it was a "racing incident" by his own admission.

Jumkie said:

I was there at this race, remember it well. The race was good between Mladin and Spies, but fair warning, the track is shyte! These two were so good they regularly lapped the field. Look at all those haybales and cones, embarrassing. This is a modern facility too, closest track to downtown Los Angeles. They have the space and money to at least construct a track like Indy (not great either but for godsakes not amateur).

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That was a hell of a battle between the two. Spies probably could have gotten him on the straightaway if he was willing to stand Mladin up .

There's been mention in this topic of Stoner at Phillip Island 2009. This video shows a lot of the sliding in slow motion. Really breathtaking to watch his bike control. Kid was unreal.

I still classify Stoner as the greatest rider ever. Marc. Is great but is still trying to get that corner control that Casey had ...... possibly what the fp crashes are about.

McCoy was a good slider but he was nowhere near as adept as Stoner. But you have to remember that on dirt Stoner was a prodege phenomenon .... neither McCoy or Doohan were.

BarryMachine said:

I still classify Stoner as the greatest rider ever. Marc. Is great but is still trying to get that corner control that Casey had ...... possibly what the fp crashes are about.

McCoy was a good slider but he was nowhere near as adept as Stoner. But you have to remember that on dirt Stoner was a prodege phenomenon .... neither McCoy or Doohan were.

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An old boy I see every year at the Isle of Man says the best rider he ever saw was Jarno Saarinen. Seen them all ride from Geoff Duke and John Surtees to the present day and is 100% adamant nobody could ride a bike like Saarinen, who had an ice racing background.

AntG said:

An old boy I see every year at the Isle of Man says the best rider he ever saw was Jarno Saarinen. Seen them all ride from Geoff Duke and John Surtees to the present day and is 100% adamant nobody could ride a bike like Saarinen, who had an ice racing background.

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Yeah I watched Saarinen ride ..... he was good ...... I placed him above Agostini back then ..... but he was no Stoner. Mind you that could just be the natural progression of the years.

Perhaps a way of thinking about it is ..

Saarinen was to Ago

Like

Stoner was to rossi

Only the gap in skills Stoner had over rossi was a bit bigger.

Stoner was the only one of all those who works outside of traction. As Marquez is working on.

birdman said:

Running over his mum makes it sound like he was a dirty rider. Even ruthless doesnt sound right to me, though we are talking about my teenhood hero. I think a better analogy is he would run over himself if it meant becoming world champion. The doc warned him in 1992 one more simple accident could result in loss of leg he replied he simply couldnt live with himself unless he tried, leg or no leg. I find that kind of heroic. But yeah, he could be a ...., he could of used a post race celebration or two rather than a deadpan: what, you want me to slow down?

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I am a Doohan tragic and rate him the best I have seen .......... easily my favourite in terms of old videos I surf on youtube and the only athlete from any sport where I have a 'poster' type of thing around my house. To me is easily one of Australia's best ever male athletes in any sport and has never gotten the level of credit he should have in this country.

Heroic, absolutely. That injury for example he came back from, the many many tumbles he took that resulted in injury, the fighting the pain each and every weekend and the sheer tenacity he had to win.

I have met him through racing (many years ago - he was at a meeting where I was working) and he had such a presence that he intimidated without meaning to ........... but when he spoke he had the fire still to get out there and beat whoever was there (from interviews I have seen he seems to have mellowed since).

To me, he was what a racer should be ......... it is not friendly out there, it is brutal where you take your chances and use your advantages to better the opponents. There was no better during his time than MD at this and we only need to look at the way he 'lectured' Criville after Eastern Creek to know that Mick was a racer.

Dirty, no but ruthless (IMO) yes as he would put his opponents in a place where they had to make a decision .......... to me, that is what racers do. They force an opponent to decide to take that gap or wait and then in that fleeting moment they have a victory.

synn said:

Mick is a ...... legend and there are no two ways about it, but I have always felt that he would have had to work a bit harder to be a 5 time world champ of Taddy Okada had a V4 instead of Criville.

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Sometimes it isn't about technique.

Sure you need basics but sometimes the unorthodox becomes orthodox (think Rossi leg wave for example)

Doohan's style was not pretty to watch but it sure was effective and I would say I disagree with the Taddy take but will admit that Taddy is often under-rated but Doohan would still have taken him.

But whether he would have won 5 without the tragedy of the previous few years is a valid question as the nearest to Doohan was taken from the track.

Excellent thread. I went away for a few days and it blew up. I never saw that track invasion race.
I know a lot of people like to .... on the 200 but it often bred some fantastic finishes. I still bummed that it’s off the calendar.
This was the one of the better 200 finishes.
Sad to see Dane Westby come so close to winning this as he died 2 years later in a streetbike crash




If this thread doesn’t make it abundantly clear that Keshav is a ....... troll, than I don’t know what does