GP12 tested today at Jerez

povol said:

I doubt the MSMA has the athority to call for extra testing without consent. Here is basically all that has been said, from MottoGPMatters.com

However, the rules also make one exception: Rule 1.15.11 allows for "any activity authorized by Race Direction." With the capacity changing for 2012, a gentlemen's agreement almost certainly exists between the factories to allow the factory riders to test the 1000cc bikes outside of the regular schedule.



According to that, Paul Butler has the athority to OK a gentelmens agreement, but mot the MSMA itself.

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Not quite. The MSMA tells Paul Butler that they have agreed to extra testing for the new bikes. Paul Butler then allows the extra testing to go ahead, without imposing penalties for extra testing. The existence of the gentlemen's agreement is kept among the factories, and not discussed in public, as there is no need to do so.

Kropotkin said:

Not quite. The MSMA tells Paul Butler that they have agreed to extra testing for the new bikes. Paul Butler then allows the extra testing to go ahead, without imposing penalties for extra testing. The existence of the gentlemen's agreement is kept among the factories, and not discussed in public, as there is no need to do so.

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Why not keep things above board and just announce that extra testing has been approved. They did when they announced back in March that an extra test had been allowed, why not now. Could it be that the so called gentlemens agreement was a forced reaction in response to Ducati's test. Could it be that the others did voice their concerns, and instead of punishing Ducati, they allowed everyone else an extra test to deflect ctiticism Why go to the pains of ratifying the test at Estoril, if there is no reason to discuss it in a public forum.

povol said:

Why not keep things above board and just announce that extra testing has been approved. They did when they announced back in March that an extra test had been allowed, why not now. Could it be that the so called gentlemens agreement was a forced reaction in response to Ducati's test. Could it be that the others did voice their concerns, and instead of punishing Ducati, they allowed everyone else an extra test to deflect ctiticism Why go to the pains of ratifying the test at Estoril, if there is no reason to discuss it in a public forum.

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Pretty simple stuff really, the Japanese are testing all the time on their private circuits........no one, of any influence, is objecting to these Ducati tests as soon enough they'll be doing their own with the factory riders at a Gp circuit.



I have to say though that Dorna's testing regs are really now being shown for their origins in stupidity. I'm nearly certain that the cost involved in limiting testing is outweighing the cost of added tests, just like the WOMD's- the about face may still take a while yet......

Keshav said:

Talent and Ducati turning the factory upside down looking for a fix and

spending more money than they have ever spent - because their

rep depends on it. + a little cheating.

It occurs to me that the Rossi-fanatics are not so different from Catholics.



What??? Catholic priests buggering little choirboys ........? NEVER. God is infallible.

Besides... if such a thing were going on you can be sure the Pope would automatically

be forthcoming and honest and would denounce the practice and rid the church of these

perverts. I mean after all - the Pope and the church wouldn't actually protect one of their

own would they?



Right?



Seriously - I doubt this one test in and of itself - will be enough to change their fortunes.

They're going to have cheat a whole lot more - or put up with still more of Rossi's tantrums.

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What is wrong with you?

Keshav said:

I stand by what I said. I don't think it will avail Ducati much because the bike needs so much in the way of changes.



And as yet - I haven't seen any statement by the governing bodies saying it's okay for the Japanese to do unauthorized

testing with team riders.



If the Japanese were following suit - I'd be inclined to think that this was all somehow officially and legally sanctioned

but that hasn't happened.



This looks like a slippery slope situation to me. If factories start making up the rules as they go - what then?



Again - I repeat; there has been no official announcement from the FIM saying extra rounds of team testing have been added.

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There hasn't been any announcement full stop - all of this 'controversy' is nowhere but inside that strange little mind of yours.



You seem to making it up as you go along, trying to sustain an argument that has no actual backing from any of the governing bodies. Blaming this on Rossi's influence is the perfect excuse for you to carry on your argument.

J4rn0 said:

I told you -- the Manufacturers are going to ratify the agreement at Estoril. Just a little patience...

You are going to be hugely disappointed if Honda and Yam will not accuse Ducati of cheating... damn, you are so sure... how can they fail to see it?!

Are they blind,

...conspiring against themselves, maybe?

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If they do ratify this - it will be an afterthought. After all.. everyone will benefit from more testing. But Ducati's doing so

prior to an agreement is made - still amounts to cheating. Everybody in the pool!

povol said:

Why not keep things above board and just announce that extra testing has been approved. They did when they announced back in March that an extra test had been allowed, why not now. Could it be that the so called gentlemens agreement was a forced reaction in response to Ducati's test. Could it be that the others did voice their concerns, and instead of punishing Ducati, they allowed everyone else an extra test to deflect ctiticism Why go to the pains of ratifying the test at Estoril, if there is no reason to discuss it in a public forum.

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Precisely.

Nino said:

What is wrong with you?

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Nothing's wrong with me. I'm not buggering little boys or ignoring the

practice for the sake of keeping the coffers filled with loot so the

priests can have their silk dresses dry-cleaned every day and eat off

golden plates.



It's an analogy - based on a situation that exists in reality.

Something Rossi-fans seem to be allergic to.

Nino said:

There hasn't been any announcement full stop - all of this 'controversy' is nowhere but inside that strange little mind of yours.



You seem to making it up as you go along, trying to sustain an argument that has no actual backing from any of the governing bodies. Blaming this on Rossi's influence is the perfect excuse for you to carry on your argument.

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It isn't really about Rossi. It's about the willingness of the governing bodies to wink and look the other way

- because they don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Rossi just happens to be fulcrum with

which they use to lever their ethics out of the way.



Dorna's poor understanding of how to market and improve MGP has been an ongoing topic here on PS for years.

They are short-sighted and depend too much on Rossi as a draw. No-one seriously thinks Rossi has manipulated

Dorna into this mindset. They're just lazy.



If there's antipathy flowing here - it's not really all that much directed at Rossi - but rather at Dorna for their

arrogance and how it's led to a decline in the quality of the racing - and how instead of using their brains to

improve the sport - have directed overmuch time and energy to promoting Rossi in order to bring in the crowds.

He's become the Brad Pitt of MGP. When the star is such a big draw - the producers can become less motivated

to make good movies as the public are largely undiscerning and will come to see Brad in any piece of crap that

shows up at the theaters. Dorna has taken the same approach with Rossi I wouldn't go so far as to say he's an

innocent pawn in the game - but it's not unfair to say that he does take advantage of their over-dependency on him.

Keshav said:

It isn't really about Rossi. It's about the willingness of the governing bodies to wink and look the other way

- because they don't want to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Rossi just happens to be fulcrum with

which they use to lever their ethics out of the way.



Dorna's poor understanding of how to market and improve MGP has been an ongoing topic here on PS for years.

They are short-sighted and depend too much on Rossi as a draw. No-one seriously thinks Rossi has manipulated

Dorna into this mindset. They're just lazy.



If there's antipathy flowing here - it's not really all that much directed at Rossi - but rather at Dorna for their

arrogance and how it's led to a decline in the quality of the racing - and how instead of using their brains to

improve the sport - have directed overmuch time and energy to promoting Rossi in order to bring in the crowds.

He's become the Brad Pitt of MGP. When the star is such a big draw - the producers can become less motivated

to make good movies as the public are largely undiscerning and will come to see Brad in any piece of crap that

shows up at the theaters. Dorna has taken the same approach with Rossi I wouldn't go so far as to say he's an

innocent pawn in the game - but it's not unfair to say that he does take advantage of their over-dependency on him.

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Well I regularly see many on here refer to Rossi as a clown (including yourself iirc), and a manipulator - with Dorna depicted as innocent victims, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

The other thing to mention is media outlets.



If Ducati are cheating so brazenly, why aren't these outlets reporting on it? I haven't seen anything like say a comment piece on a website or a newspaper, so I'm guessing it's because they too are worried about getting on the wrong side of Rossi??

Nino said:

Well I regularly see many on here refer to Rossi as a clown (including yourself iirc), and a manipulator - with Dorna depicted as innocent victims, so I'll take that with a pinch of salt.

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He is in fact adept at beguiling the media. I don't think anyone here would argue otherwise.



He's good at getting his way. Ditto as per above.



And his biggest admirers continually comment (with glee) on his ability to play mind games with other riders.



So it's not a far stretch for someone to think he's a capable manipulator.



Re: Dorna as "innocent victim". I'd wager you can't find an instance of this proposition anywhere here on PS.

At least not in the time that I have been here. Carmine and Co. are not well thought of in general by much of

anyone here.



As to the charges of clownishness. Kindly view exhibit A. which I think supports the general view of Rossi -

unless you think he's playing the part of Nick Bottom in an impromptu performance of A Midsummer's Night Dream.

Nino said:

The other thing to mention is media outlets.



If Ducati are cheating so brazenly, why aren't these outlets reporting on it? I haven't seen anything like say a comment piece on a website or a newspaper, so I'm guessing it's because they too are worried about getting on the wrong side of Rossi??

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That is a fair question - to which I have no answer.



It is equally curious tho... considering the media's usual propensity for reporting rumors

they themselves believe to be without merit... if nothing but for the sake of

sensationalism to sell more papers, or whatever they're selling to make a buck.

Kropotkin said:

Not quite. The MSMA tells Paul Butler that they have agreed to extra testing for the new bikes. Paul Butler then allows the extra testing to go ahead, without imposing penalties for extra testing. The existence of the gentlemen's agreement is kept among the factories, and not discussed in public, as there is no need to do so.

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Dear Mister Krop,



Can you please answer a question I posed previously in another thread and didnt recieve an answer to.....



Is there any rule or tech regulation that precludes the use of an electric starter on a MGP bike? If the Honda is so difficult to jump start as has been alluded to after the Jerez incident can they implement this technology so the situation that we saw Stoner confronted with won't happen again.



And if so, do you think Honda would be already looking to design and implement this sort of system in the very near future in lieu of what has already transpired?

Mr Squiggle said:

Dear Mister Krop,



Can you please answer a question I posed previously in another thread and didnt recieve an answer to.....



Is there any rule or tech regulation that precludes the use of an electric starter on a MGP bike? If the Honda is so difficult to jump start as has been alluded to after the Jerez incident can they implement this technology so the situation that we saw Stoner confronted with won't happen again.



And if so, do you think Honda would be already looking to design and implement this sort of system in the very near future in lieu of what has already transpired?

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Certainly Big Dave - can give a more authoritative answer: but I always thought that GP bikes don't have electric

starters - for the same reason superbike riders remove the electric starter, because of extra weight and power

loss.

Keshav said:

If the do ratify this - it will be an afterthought. After all.. everyone will benefit from more testing. But Ducati's doing so

prior to an agreement is made - still amounts to cheating. Everybody in the pool!

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You are confusing making an agreement with ratifying it -- the agreement has been quietly made among manufacturers before Ducati tested, it will be formally ratified afterwards (if they deem it necessary - it's up to them).



It is actually Ducati that is trusting the word of the others here -- thats' the gentlemen's style.

Kropotkin said:

Not quite. The MSMA tells Paul Butler that they have agreed to extra testing for the new bikes. Paul Butler then allows the extra testing to go ahead, without imposing penalties for extra testing. The existence of the gentlemen's agreement is kept among the factories, and not discussed in public, as there is no need to do so.

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So,are you saying he does not have the option of saying no.

povol said:

So,are you saying he does not have the option of saying no.

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I thought you were blinded by your anti-Rossi zeal, but it seems your really do not understand how it works... Or maybe it's the anti-Rossi zeal that prevents you from understanding it -- for you, there must be either cheating or manipulation -- you are so desperately looking for it!

J4rn0 said:

You are confusing making an agreement with ratifying it -- the agreement has been quietly made among manufacturers before Ducati tested, it will be formally ratified afterwards (if they deem it necessary - it's up to them).

It is actually Ducati that is trusting the word of the others here -- thats' the gentlemen's style.

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Why all the secrecy?



Saying an agreement was made in some smokey room, in skull and crossbones fashion away from prying eyes

- is a huge presumption on your part. Doesn't sound very "gentlemanly" to me.

And that's as politely as I can put it.



Assuming it were true - why have we not heard of testing by the other manufacturers? Why does it appear that

no-one else is taking advantage of this abrupt change in policy? The whole thing stinks of under-the-table politics.

And don't lay that patronizing "you're just being paranoid" nonsense on me either; it's insulting.



I've been a successful businessman for some years now and have not come this

far without having a good ........ detector. I consider myself to be reasonably astute when it comes to business and politics and it's been very rare that I've ever made an accusation based on experience and gut instincts and been proved wrong.

povol said:

So,are you saying he does not have the option of saying no.

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Officially, he could say no. But he simply never would. The factories decide these issues, it is not up to either Race Control, Dorna or IRTA to interfere.