GP12 tested today at Jerez

Talpa · Apr 12, 2011

Keshav said:
You still are incapable of answering straight-forward questions with straightforward replies. You ignore convenient truths as they do not suit you.

Numerous people here have proposed that Ducati is cheating. How then can you say otherwise?

Really - for a long time I thought you were better than this - but really - you seem a more eloquent Talpa - minus the rage and the insults.

Coming from you!! Absolutely priceless....

I doubt their has been a worse reactionary here full of insults and seriously exaggerated, misguided opinions...(bar Baz, Mental and MickM of recent) than you.......

Oh the Hypocrisy!!!!

digger · Apr 12, 2011

Keshav said:
Basically - this was a chance for Rossi to suss out the new engine. I wouldn't make THAT big a deal out of it.

As others have said - as long as the other factories are free to take advantage of this loophole - it's all good.

Sorry man, I might have missed something, didnt you just get through saying that Ducati are cheating?

J4rn0 · Apr 13, 2011

techno said:
Having read through this thread it seems to be going round in circles, I was wondering how much so callerd testing did they actually do?

However it does look a little dubious being honest but all this conspiracy thoery about ducati and rossi and therefore hayden being given permission through complacency to have an illegal test seems like bull.

If they have been found to have broken the rules I would expect there to be some kind of sanction and at the least some complaint from the other factories, to say they dare not say anything to rossi is surely a crock, look at the .... storm when it was found he was doing burnouts on the grid to clean up his starting position.

A voice of common sense -- thank you

Never mind, if Rossi wasn't at Ducati nobody would have cried foul play here -- it's just the Rossi gravitational effect, that attracts all the flak...

J4rn0 · Apr 13, 2011

I have been thinking about the new Ducati rear suspension -- with the 'old' one the head of the shock absorber is usually hinged on the swingarm itself, as in the classic pro-link:

But with the inverted design normally the head of the shock absorber connects to the frame, so in the Ducati where will it be?

It seems difficult to change the rear suspension without changing the 'chassis' too. Maybe the front mini-frame now extends to the rear to connect the shock absorber?

Mental Anarchist · Apr 13, 2011

Ducati stated that the GP12 Chassis is still in design and has not yet been made. It was also stated that the bike tested was the GP11 chassis so I am sure that there at this stage at least there is no connect between front and rear subframes.

Keshav · Apr 13, 2011

digger said:
Sorry man, I might have missed something, didnt you just get through saying that Ducati are cheating?

I stand by what I said. I don't think it will avail Ducati much because the bike needs so much in the way of changes.

And as yet - I haven't seen any statement by the governing bodies saying it's okay for the Japanese to do unauthorized

testing with team riders.

If the Japanese were following suit - I'd be inclined to think that this was all somehow officially and legally sanctioned

but that hasn't happened.

This looks like a slippery slope situation to me. If factories start making up the rules as they go - what then?

Again - I repeat; there has been no official announcement from the FIM saying extra rounds of team testing have been added.

Arrabbiata1 · Apr 13, 2011

J4rn0 said:
I have been thinking about the new Ducati rear suspension -- with the 'old' one the head of the shock absorber is usually hinged on the swingarm itself, as in the classic pro-link:

But with the inverted design normally the head of the shock absorber connects to the frame, so in the Ducati where will it be?

It seems difficult to change the rear suspension without changing the 'chassis' too. Maybe the front mini-frame now extends to the rear to connect the shock absorber?

Time to kill J4rn0?

povol · Apr 13, 2011

J4rn0 said:
A voice of common sense -- thank you

Never mind, if Rossi wasn't at Ducati nobody would have cried foul play here -- it's just the Rossi gravitational effect, that attracts all the flak...

I dont think that is true at all. There are some very well informed fans of MotoGP on this board who follow this sport not only as race fans, but as fans of development.For some, the technical side of the sport is as intriguing as the racing itself. Those fans understand the importance of getting a leg up in prototype racing and will call ........ when it comes to skirting of the technical regulations.You know damn good and well, if your rider was ahead in the technical race and another high profile contender was openly skirting the rules, you would have plenty to say, so dont pretend you wouldnt. You guys were screaming like smashed cats over a technical advantage that Stoner had in 07 that was come by legally. Your ....... head would explode if you thought someone was gaining an advantage illegally.

BarryMachine · Apr 13, 2011

Knowing Ducati's hate of a chasis and the want to use the engine as a structural part .... how about :

Centre of gravity back a bit, no more cylinder sticking so horizontally out front .....

Nino · Apr 13, 2011

Keshav said:
I have in fact said several times that the Ducati is so ...... - that this bit of extra testing - is likely to avail them nothing.

So if/when Rossi wins a race this year, it will primarily be down to supreme talent right?

Keshav · Apr 13, 2011

Nino said:
So if/when Rossi wins a race this year, it will primarily be down to supreme talent right?

Talent and Ducati turning the factory upside down looking for a fix and

spending more money than they have ever spent - because their

rep depends on it. + a little cheating.

It occurs to me that the Rossi-fanatics are not so different from Catholics.

What??? Catholic priests buggering little choirboys ........? NEVER. God is infallible.

Besides... if such a thing were going on you can be sure the Pope would automatically

be forthcoming and honest and would denounce the practice and rid the church of these

perverts. I mean after all - the Pope and the church wouldn't actually protect one of their

own would they?

Right?

Seriously - I doubt this one test in and of itself - will be enough to change their fortunes.

They're going to have cheat a whole lot more - or put up with still more of Rossi's tantrums.

J4rn0 · Apr 13, 2011

Keshav said:
I stand by what I said. I don't think it will avail Ducati much because the bike needs so much in the way of changes.

And as yet - I haven't seen any statement by the governing bodies saying it's okay for the Japanese to do unauthorized

testing with team riders.

If the Japanese were following suit - I'd be inclined to think that this was all somehow officially and legally sanctioned

but that hasn't happened.

This looks like a slippery slope situation to me. If factories start making up the rules as they go - what then?

Again - I repeat; there has been no official announcement from the FIM saying extra rounds of team testing have been added.

If it is a gentlemen's agreement among the manufacturers, why do you want it sanctioned by FIM...?! No gentlemen's agreement would be needed if there was a FIM ruling, no?

Anyway the (so far only verbal) agreement is to be ratified at Estoril by MSMA. Then you'll be able to find some peace of mind

povol · Apr 13, 2011

J4rn0 said:
If it is a gentlemen's agreement among the manufacturers, why do you want it sanctioned by FIM...?! No gentlemen's agreement would be needed if there was a FIM ruling, no?

Anyway the (so far only verbal) agreement is to be ratified at Estoril by MSMA. Then you'll be able to find some peace of mind

I have not seen any agreement. It was mentioned that for this to happen, surely there was one, but he was just guessing.

povol · Apr 13, 2011

I doubt the MSMA has the athority to call for extra testing without consent. Here is basically all that has been said, from MottoGPMatters.com

However, the rules also make one exception: Rule 1.15.11 allows for "any activity authorized by Race Direction." With the capacity changing for 2012, a gentlemen's agreement almost certainly exists between the factories to allow the factory riders to test the 1000cc bikes outside of the regular schedule.

According to that, Paul Butler has the athority to OK a gentelmens agreement, but mot the MSMA itself.

BKmoto · Apr 13, 2011

povol said:
I dont think that is true at all. There are some very well informed fans of MotoGP on this board who follow this sport not only as race fans, but as fans of development.For some, the technical side of the sport is as intriguing as the racing itself. Those fans understand the importance of getting a leg up in prototype racing and will call ........ when it comes to skirting of the technical regulations.You know damn good and well, if your rider was ahead in the technical race and another high profile contender was openly skirting the rules, you would have plenty to say, so dont pretend you wouldnt. You guys were screaming like smashed cats over a technical advantage that Stoner had in 07 that was come by legally. Your ....... head would explode if you thought someone was gaining an advantage illegally.

I know there was more testing in 2006 but were the rules about additional testing for full time riders the same? If they were it looks like Ducati did the same thing back then. This article states that Alex Hofmann who was a full time GP rider in 2006 had taken part in private testing of the GP7 sometime before August 21st 2006.

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/77958/1/first_pictures_capirossi_rides_800cc_ducati.html

Keshav · Apr 13, 2011

J4rn0 said:
If it is a gentlemen's agreement among the manufacturers, why do you want it sanctioned by FIM...?! No gentlemen's agreement would be needed if there was a FIM ruling, no?

Anyway the (so far only verbal) agreement is to be ratified at Estoril by MSMA. Then you'll be able to find some peace of mind

It is a gentleman's agreement not to cheat.

The number of allowed test days are not determined by some wordless consensus. There was a formal published agreement - which last I heard - had not been re-written. I don't know the form of the document per se.

Goatboy · Apr 13, 2011

......., just seen that all the other teams raised a protest against the illegal test today on the grounds that it cannot be proved that it was a bike that fully fell under 2012 regs! Turns out however that yesterday a statute of limitations of 5 days was put on all protests by the FIM, & since the test was 5 days ago there is nothing they can do about it.

Link

Jumkie · Apr 13, 2011

good one.

Fool--in Biblical terms is like saying Rob. So, I say, "I pity Rob."

J4rn0 · Apr 13, 2011

Arrabbiata1 said:
Time to kill J4rn0?

Just 15 minutes

J4rn0 · Apr 13, 2011

Keshav said:
It is a gentleman's agreement not to cheat.

The number of allowed test days are not determined by some wordless consensus. There was a formal published agreement - which last I heard - had not been re-written. I don't know the form of the document per se.

I told you -- the Manufacturers are going to ratify the agreement at Estoril. Just a little patience...

You are going to be hugely disappointed if Honda and Yam will not accuse Ducati of cheating... damn, you are so sure... how can they fail to see it?!

Are they blind,

...conspiring against themselves, maybe?

GP12 tested today at Jerez

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