GoPro Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland 2016 spoiler and ....

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Gaz said:
Actually, just came across this with regards to Spies as well - seems that Yamaha boss made him feel 'unwelcome' after a bout of food poisoning

What I do know is that Yamaha's Japanese boss came in and had a stern word with Spies, and that was what caused Spies to want to leave Yamaha. His tone was very harsh, after having had food poisoning.
Click to expand...

Let me quote a wise ol bloke on this.

Gaz said:
It is a strategy ............. may not be a good one or successful or smart ............ but it is a strategy
Click to expand...
 
JPSLotus said:
What implication?

I made no such implication with what I said.

I was refuting your claim that Spies and his side of the garage should have rose to the occasion, by pointing out the swingarm failure was Yamaha's fault.

You should know I don't imply things around here, I state what I think flatout. Ask anyone and they'll tell you I'm not going to beat around the bush like some of the fence sitters around here.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you think that incident indicates. What happened the rest of his career in MotoGP?
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
My bad, I didnt realize, riding rain tires in the dry is a strategy
Click to expand...

You're upset somehow because I used the word genius? It was throw away man. Describe it however you want, but one team/man got the variables correct, and the others didn't. If it was so obvious, it may have been a closer race. Let alone the commentators saying essentially the exact same thing during the broadcast. Is this part of the Sarcastiball Championship?
 
Last edited:
ReddiWhip said:
You're upset somehow because I used the word genius? It was throw away man. Describe it however you want, but one team/man got the variables correct, and the other didn't. If it was so obvious, it may have been a closer race. Let alone the commentators saying essentially the exact same thing during the broadcast. Is this part of the Sarcastiball Championship?
Click to expand...

Is this the same commentators who used the exact metaphor to describe rain in the waterfall for two consecutive laps
 
Gaz said:
Absolutely that mentality and mental application is paramount and I do feel that his played a huge part in Spies problems throughout the season as none of his crew had jobs leading into 2013 and that will play on their minds.

But likewise I suspect that Yamaha were to busy ejaculating at the second coming to realise that they had a very talented rider now and totally overlooked him and his team such that the level of equipment left for Spies was beyond poor and in some cases perhaps bordered on unsafe (rear suspension linkage failure)

I will state here and now that if Rossi was not returning to Yamaha in 2013 then there is no way that Spies would have had the issues that he experienced, and none of that is VR's fault as all he did was sign to return to the team bringing his own crew with him.

In some ways 2012/2013 was or could be seen as a forerunner to the machinations of this season in the way in which some aspects have been handled, but thankfully to date JL has not suffered the mechanical and technical issues experienced by Spies.

And whilst I recognise that many dismiss Spies, the facts remain that from memory he is the only single race winner in Dry conditions since Troy Bayliss of 2006 which is not to be sneezed at.

IMO again but Spies was shafted, wrong place wrong time and whilst I did not see him as a potential World Champion (race winner, absolutely) he was treated far worse than many lesser performing riders
Click to expand...

He was partly shafted imo because his crew chief was not up to scratch, and the choice of crew chief was his own, but certainly there was a litany of errors on his side of things including sending him out to ride on a bike with an undetected broken frame which hardly argue for competent support on his side of the garage. I think any suggestion he was deliberately sabotaged because Rossi was returning is a bridge too far however.
 
Last edited:
moto vudu said:
I don't care who likes Rossi or who doesn't. Just keep it real and be honest with your opinions. Don't think anyone's fooled by fake criticism when all you're really saying is you hate him.
Click to expand...
Point out why such criticism is in error then, just calling people you disagree with "haters" doesn't cut it as I said. I personally don't criticise his riding much anyway.

Our specific dispute on this thread started with you pretty much calling out we "Rossi haters" for not commenting on Jorge having what you assessed as a "meltdown" in practice for the most recent race. I have actually agreed with another poster on what you later posted yourself, that for whatever reasons which may include disillusionment with Yamaha he may not be riding up to his previous best in the wet and/or in changeable conditions. One responder to the discussion you instigated raised the question of whether the current tyre suited him, which you dismissed out of hand, saying that everything he had posted was non-factual, which as I pointed out was clearly not the case. Sure Povol did go on to speculate, which is what we all do on here, including you on this thread as it happened in assessing Jorge as suffering a "meltdown".

You are obviously entirely free to attempt to have it both ways if you wish, but perhaps shouldn't be too surprised if posters you have specifically disputed call you out on same.
 
michaelm said:
He was partly shafted imo because his crew chief was not up to scratch, and the choice of crew chief was his own, but certainly there was a litany of errors on his side of things including sending him out to ride on a bike with an undetected broken frame which hardly argue for competent support on his side of the garage. I think any suggestion he was deliberately sabotaged because Rossi was returning is a bridge too far however.
Click to expand...
Agree with gaz spies was utterly shafted in 2012.

All mechanics, crew etc are at the top of their respective trade, yes everyone makes mistakes, but more than one at this level is unheard of

It made the transmission for 46 to come back that bit easier. Maybe it was just bad luck or maybe his teams minds were elsewhere
 
moto vudu said:
No, what I'm saying is that most of us can easily spot the difference between criticism and hatred.

A. I'm not sure Lorenzo has given 100% effort in the last two races. I believe he is much more capable in the wet than what he has shown.

B. Lorenzo is wasting Yamaha's money by purposely riding around near last place. He is terrible and what he is doing is disgraceful. Why is Yamaha even paying that fool? He needs special edge-grip treated tires in order to be fast, maybe he's the one in cahoot with tire manufacturers. Dorna and their damn bias toward Spanish riders.

^-- Easy to spot which is criticism and which is BS hate speech.
Click to expand...
If all you have are hypothetical examples it does not overly strengthen your case I am afraid.
 
ReddiWhip said:
I could be wrong, but I believe he's strictly referring to extreme examples of the point which you are both making. Sometimes it becomes redundant, and the conclusion obvious.

Like the other week when there were monsoon conditions, and the argument was made that the race was flagged only because it would benefit a certain rider. One could say a logical conclusion was that the race was flaged because multiple riders had already crashed and conditions were worsening. Others would say that it really was because inferred rider was overtaken.

Making the argument that the latter is true because it can't be disproved (debunked) is an appeal to ignorance, a fallacious argument.

Everyone has a bias, no doubt. Some do a better job of "attempting" objectivity than others. That is in no way a statement of innocence on my behalf, or a indictment of anyone else. Merely a statement of fact. I cheer for Yamaha, and any rider on the team.
Click to expand...
We do have night in Australia, and at a different time than you guys, and I replied to one of your posts before reading subsequent posts which I find entirely reasonable and well argued. We are somewhat accustomed on this "Rossi haters forum" to a stream of new posters calling any and all criticism of Rossi heretical without any actual attempt to argue their position

Your point in this post is valid, but unfortunately VW had to provide a hypothetical example to make his own point since he largely doesn't care to dispute the actual arguments of those with whom he disagrees.
 
It is good this is a "Rossi hater's forum" because the Rossi fans would have nothing to talk about otherwise if it were just an endless stream of topics about the great VR. Well actually that might bring back some posters from their self-imposed exile were it true because then this forum wouldn't offend their delicate sensibilities and might actually adhere to what they consider to be 'proper behavior'. Alas, whatever shall we do without them.
 
Iannone's gesticulating after his divebomb tyre change...What was that about? Slicks v Inters?
 
Dr No said:
Iannone's gesticulating after his divebomb tyre change...What was that about? Slicks v Inters?
Click to expand...

He yelled something at his team, but it was hard to make out what he was saying. Sounded like "You got rid of me for that guy riding around in 15th place?!"
 
birdman said:
Ah I see this is your attempt to refute Michelin have done 'nothing special' for Rossi. Afterall the tires are still black and round. Just like the Ducati was still red and white.

Btw your little ice-cream example does not conclude with ops false.........................

It ends in debate of the evidence. And people are free to make up there own minds.

Boppers are all the same it this respect, its the reason for the term bopper. They all fall apart at the debating stage and just cover their eyes and ears and scream false, false, false.

BTW all Michael has ever argued and that I agree with is riders should get a choice in tire, meaning we just want to see Lorenzo on his preferred soft tires compete against Rossi on his preferred hard. But that might not be what Ezzpeletta wants, he wants a show afterall. Cover your ears CONSPIRACY!
Click to expand...

Did Michelin do anything special for Rossi? Or rather for Honda and Yamaha? How the heck would you know?

Feel free to believe wahtever you want, but don't call them facts, they remain arbitrary conclusions. There are other facts that could lead to opposite arbitrary conclusions -- like the lemon tire Rossi got from Michelin at Valencia 2006 and in a couple other races that season, which could hardly be called special treatment, at least in the favorable sense you give to the word. :rolleyes:
 
Valentino Rossi says Yamaha's struggles in cool conditions in Friday practice shaped its decision to run intermediate tyres in the second phase of the German Grand Prix.

The seven-time MotoGP champion was in the lead pack that ultimately pitted too late and was overrun by Honda's Marc Marquez, who stopped six laps earlier and for slick tyres as the Sachsenring dried.

Second behind Andrea Dovizioso when he entered the pitlane, Rossi had a slow out-lap on intermediates and was also passed by the slick-shod Cal Crutchlow, Dani Pedrosa and Jack Miller as he fell to finish eighth.

Rossi said the decision was largely due to Yamaha's lack of feeling during Friday's dry practice sessions.

"I was very slow in the second part of the race with the intermediates on the track that was coming dry," he explained.

"About the strategy, in reality, if I stopped two or three laps earlier, it doesn't change a lot.

"I think that if I stopped earlier I would have finished in sixth place.

"But I entered the pits together with Crutchlow and Dovi but the bigger problem was that when I restarted and went back out onto the track, I had no feeling with the bike.

"It was very, very slow and the first lap I lost like 10 seconds because I couldn't feel the bike, I couldn't feel the tyres.

"I don't know if it was the wrong choice, it would be interesting to try the slick if we could go back in the time, but on paper with the slicks it can also be more difficult.

"In these conditions, I am not very strong, but also our bike is very difficult to ride because it doesn't give enough feeling to push from the beginning."

With his third victory of the season, Marquez extended his championship lead over Rossi to 59 points, with his Yamaha team-mate Jorge Lorenzo now 48 in arrears after finishing his torrid weekend a distant 15th.

Lorenzo was slightly more competitive in the wet conditions than at Assen three weeks earlier, but "started losing front feeling" as the track dried and finished 77 seconds behind Marquez.

Having been the second-last rider to pit, while he waited for Yamaha's call, and then for intermediates, Lorenzo acknowledged "we made a mistake on the strategy".

"We discussed a little bit but maybe this discussion or meeting was not enough big and deep to understand what to do in all of the scenarios," he said.

"We were not prepared enough, I think, to choose the right decision.

"We'll have a reason to learn for the future, if this happens again."

Bad Friday shaped Yamaha's German Grand Prix MotoGP strategy call - MotoGP - Autosport
Click to expand...

.
 

Similar threads

JPSLotus
2024 MotoGP Round 9: Liqui Moly Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland - Sachsenring
11 12 13
Replies
259
Views
6K
Barbedwirebikerr
Barbedwirebikerr
MichaelBolton
RIP Phil Read aka "The Prince of Speed"
Replies
2
Views
642
Keshav
Keshav
M
2022 Spielberg - CryptoDATA Austrian Grand Prix
2
Replies
30
Views
3K
Bern1
B
#22
David Emmet: A peek into the soul of Marc Marquez
2
Replies
20
Views
2K
#22
#22
#22
Marc Marquez reportedly “going to win appeal”, will “benefit from clumsiness” of rule
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Gaz
G

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top