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Gaz · Jul 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
Brilliant decision by Marquez and the Honda team, looked at the bigger picture and took a great win, Crutchlow did well too, Rossi needs to give his head a wobble !

Imagine.

Were it another rider people may even be suggesting a meltdown may be imminent if not occurring

Keshav said:
It's like Lorenzo is intentionally riding like .... as payback for ...... treatment from Yamaha. I don't seriously think he's that petty. But whilst he was never the super-best wet rider, he never rode this bad in the rain in previous seasons. So much for Rossi the master tactician and worn rubber rider. Dovi was a dope not to come in and change sooner.

While he has been like this all this weekend and last in the changeable conditions, to be fair he is also quite beat up at the moment due to his three practice falls (when you consider that last year he had around 3 falls for the season total)

MdubSTYLIE said:
Did you hear his interview? For anyone one who doubted me I was the fastest in the dry. I probably should have just stayed out I was so fast.

.... I was happy for him a second before I heard that ..... For the record I doubted him because of his track record.

He may have been taking some queues from recent Iannonne interviews where he has been saying the same thing whilst throwing a few barbs at Ducati, Dovi and anyone else involved

JPSLotus said:
Where have all the worthless glory-hunting boppers like Shaunna gone?

The world cam crashing down when those she wanted to crash didn't

Rising Sun said:
Question for the speculatively-inclined out there: Would Team Rossi have gotten their strategy so badly wrong here (and at Misano in 2015) had one J. Burgess, esq. still been crew chief?

You'd think that JB would have at least ensured the 2nd bike had slicks, which possibly would have seen #46 salvage a podium...

Good call sun and nope, I suspect that when HRC blinked then JB would have made the call as he knows who VR is racing for a title.

May be some soul searching going on in the Rossi side of the garage

Iamapony · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
Dude, I don't know what you make a year, but if your company offers you Rossi-Money, and you take that gesture as a slap in the face, why the .... are you wasting your time on this message board?

Also, you have to admit, Yamaha's racing outcomes are pretty excellent for a marketing company.

You can only post about racing, if you are a broke @sshat, or something? Nice, pal. Perhaps you should keep your remarks just about yourself, since I doubt you know much about me, or anyone else.

Just something to consider before you insult everyone posting here, including yourself. A lot of poop flinging around here for no REAL reason, in my broke @sshat opinion.

moto vudu said:
I thought this was a good explanation of Rossi/Yamaha's decision making. Because of the struggle they had Friday, they didn't think they would be able to get enough heat into a front slick. I suppose they still could have kept the intermediate front and switched to a rear slick, but maybe that would've made it more likely to lose the front.

I don't know if I believe this. I think it was just a calculation that gave Rossi more options to pass, if the track was still damp off line. I also think VR flat out screwed-up, just like MM has done in at least two other races under similar circumstances.

This time MM did it right. He is getting smarter along with getting better teamwork. If he and Repsol/Honda keep this up, he just might end-up with more titles than VR. He is so damn good. Meanwhile, JLo is having menstruation issues, and Ducati is thinking they got another Crutchlow and are going to be screwed the next couple of years.

moto vudu said:
Cal is hilarious. He has finished 5 of 9 races and finally gets on the podium and starts talking .....

What an arrogant little man. He is very fast, but his lack of humility can be annoying. Usually, I laugh, but today he rubbed me the wrong way.

JPSLotus · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
Ouch! Rossi hatred has made the board so serious these days. I thought that long diatribe was a literal joke, which is why I made a joke of it.

The championship last year was decided by ONE POSISITON. You make it sound as though Rossi is riding around circuits on training wheels. Your post clearly illustrates how clouded your judgment is on this topic. And as far as shelf life is concerned, it's only as long as the duration of the contract as far as the interest of the factory goes. That you wrote up the long post to try and discredit Rossi's very obvious worth both as a rider and a marketing force, in the face of common sense, proves beyond shadow of doubt that your view isnt grounded in reality, weather you're a Rossi fan or not. Lastly, 90% of the grid would suck .... on TV to get that contract which you put so little value in.

Again, I looked at what the facts were. It's not my fault your yellow-tinted blinders prevent you from looking at the situation objectively. I never said he was riding around on training wheels.

I never said there was anything wrong with re-signing Rossi to another 2 year contract. What I said was wrong was offering the rider (Lorenzo) who has delivered more success to Yamaha Racing over the last 7 seasons than Valentino Rossi, and on top of that, the rider who just delivered another rider's title to Yamaha. Instead Yamaha had the gall to insult him by offering him an equal contract in spite of all of the success he has delivered to the team, all while his idolized teammate choked down the stretch in his first real chance of winning a title in 6 years much as he did a decade earlier. Finishing one position out of winning the title means precisely what? Not a ....... thing because he didn't win the title...and him winning the title would have been one of the worst things to ever happen in the history of grand prix motorcycle racing based purely on his disgusting behavior at Sepang when he crashed out a rider for daring to race him. Sadly his fans are myopic on this subject.

I've also stated that Rossi's marketing value is overvalued, and is complete ........ when you actually looked at the Yamaha motorcycle sales numbers, which he is supposed to be an intrinsic part of helping to sell if you believe the propaganda coming out of various quarters. He's so intrinsic, Yamaha Corporate didn't even deign to mention him in investor material as being a reason for sales dropping, or increasing.

His economic impact is far greater on DORNA, the commercial rights holder, in whose best interest it is to have Rossi on a competitive bike because they make money directly off of who competes; see the yellow parachute deal in the summer of 2012 when Carmelo Ezpeleta brokered his exit from Ducati back to a front-running bike all while Ben Spies conveniently suffered everything short of biblical plagues descending upon his garage.

Like most boppers, you seem to have a lot of difficulty in reading what is actual said, and generally engage in red herring fallacies in a pathetic effort to try and bolster a position that I was never debating, nor discussing. It makes it further amusing that you would bandy about the word reality since your entire post refutes nothing, and does a great job of talking straight out of your ....

Gaz · Jul 17, 2016

Daniboy said:
The team made the call at the right time or thereabouts, Rossi ignored them and he did it in Misano too.

So he went against the team ........... how dare he do so, really I mean taking issue with your employer like that.

ReddiWhip said:
One can be certain that Yamaha made a good faith attempt to resign the reigning world champion.

The contract may have been offered in good faith but the environment before and surrounding the offer do not seem to support 'good faith' in many eyes.

IMO only but they offered a contract with a 'take it or leave it' type of clause as for them, they had their cake and were not worried about having a platter on which to serve it

michaelm said:
Despite all and including him being viciously competitive I think Jorge is a sensitive soul at some level, and if Yamaha were keen to retain him they went about it in a strange way imo.

I think that the guy was somewhat shattered/disappointed that after providing them with 3 world championships the team heirachy instead chose to seemingly punish or ignore him at a moment of his glory

When there should have been celebrations there seemed more commiseration for others missing out and dare I say it, Yamaha themselves missing out on the benefit of the history that could have been made.

History may show Yamaha's 2016 as a golden moment or a failing point as there may not be riders around for a few years who can get to the level of the top 4 and stay there competitively

Daniboy said:
So do you think they chose an unknown quantity in Vinales deliberately , doesn't seem like sound business sense to me.

I think that they have chosen a known quantity for the wrong reasons.

Vinales is good and will improve at Yamaha if, and I do mean IF he is not seen as a threat to Rossi as if there is the threat that develops than any assistance from Rossi's side of the garage will cease.

They have banked on Vinales to take them forward but seemingly banking on Rossi to maintain the marketability and publicity

michaelm said:
As has been previously discussed I think Yamaha expected Jorge to re-sign believing he had no option but to do so; they were very likely correct that he didn't have any other viable option, but he took another option anyway which says something I would have thought.

Absolutely Mike

When one is unhappy or there is a contentious environment that is unpleasant, one has three options.

Improve the enviroment but this means that you must have the power and ability to do so (which JL does not)

Stay in the environment and just put up with it (which generally draws a lot from a person)

Or leave for a new challenge (sometimes the work, sometimes they dont but on a personal level as they say 'a change is as good as a holiday'

IMO only, but JL is taking the right path for himself, and whilst it may not work out at championship level I do expect better results than we saw in 2011/2012

MdubSTYLIE · Jul 17, 2016

Gaz said:
He may have been taking some queues from recent Iannonne interviews where he has been saying the same thing whilst throwing a few barbs at Ducati, Dovi and anyone else involved

That sounds better than what I thought. I figured he hired Kanye West as his life coach.

Gaz · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
I defintely agree with him being sensitive. Looking from Yamahas perspective, if JL was negotiating unreasonably, that puts them in a tough place. And if JL was pointing the proverbial gun, saying its him or me, that doesnt make for a doable deal. Thats all speculation ofcourse, but its somewhat likely.

Or if Yamaha's offer was not genuine?

It is easy for a business to make an offer to appease the 'publicity side' but where the offer itself is not a genuine offer by lowering dollars, adding in requirements that were not in the last contract, media appearance, marketing responsibilities etc, all that will make a rider feel less worthy.

Remedy we are dealing with large ego's and half the battle is massaging those ego's to have them believe that they are the critical component for the team going forward

ReddiWhip said:
I think Jarvis said it best, "Trust me, it's not easy to run with two top dogs in the same team".

For Yamaha, maybe the busines sense was the revenues that traditionally come with Rossi.

Have been saying just that for some time.

I suspect that the Yamaha racing team would prefer JL to stay as he (and they) are a known quantity with some very successful history.

But I also suspect that the decision was not taken by Yamaha Racing only as near all of Yamaha's marketing is based on Rossi despite Lorenzo being the world champion and having won their only world titles in some time.

feros said:
true. they either have to be fast,have a very bright future or bring in marketing value, rossi has two of those attributes, as far as business goes i would never call hiring rossi a bad decision.

as long as he is around, he will be hired and probably be highest paid rider out there too.

Tell Ducati about bad decisions

As for the last sentence he may be the highest earner but is not the highest paid - the difference being that VR's marketing and merchandise sales take him far higher than many others earn from salaries but MM/JL are rumoured to have a higher base

Gaz · Jul 17, 2016

JPSLotus said:
I don't even believe you thought all three were the next big thing.

No one saw Stoner coming outside of his dad when he negotiated the Ducati contract after a few riders passed on signing.

Have to be fair here JPS and say that I did not see him coming along but did ride bikes with a guy who was a very savvy gambler (not exactly poor either) and he put down $1000 on Stoner winning the world championship within his first 3 years in the top class at odds of near 500/1 at the time (in Oz, CS was relatively unknown as smaller categories got little coverage)

The bet was made in late 2005 after it was announced that CS was going to MotoGP with LCR.

He was a happy man in late 2007 when CS won the title at Japan (the guy was riding at a Motard ride day at the time CS won and you could hear the hooting from miles away - and drinks were on him that weekend)

Gaz · Jul 17, 2016

Marquez's warm up crash - a bit scarey that the bike followed him - https://gfycat.com/GlossyPracticalBaleenwhale

aaronl · Jul 17, 2016

Saw a video of the bt muppets calling for a penalty towards MM for his mechanic holding the clutch in on the second bike during the exchange.

J4rn0 · Jul 17, 2016

michaelm said:
I no doubt can't match you in several other languages, but my ability to read and comprehend written English is quite good, thanks all the same.

I quote from the post by MV to which I replied, which was in regard to Povol's post, viz:
"Everything you just stated is your own personal opinion/theory and you have absolutely no factual data to back up any of it".
I disagreed that there was nothing factual in the post, but said (twice in fact) that any conclusions drawn/opinions given by Povol based on the facts to which he alluded were his own.

Again one of your allegiance started the current argument, commenting that Jorge having loses in practice was a sign he was having a "meltdown", and asking why no-one had posted regarding same, thereby implying no Jorge partisans were making excuses for him btw. If he didn't like the ensuing discussion, tough, perhaps he shouldn't have provoked it.

And once again, you along with others partial to Valentino are hardly in a position to take umbrage with anyone raising conspiracy theories on a small corner of the Internet given your boy's fairly recent raising of a massive such conspiracy theory to the world press in general.

Hmm, all this is hardly an answer and you know it. Are you turning into a kind political fundamentalist, replying according to "allegiance" rather than according to reason? Assuming I have that "allegiance", because I've been very critical of Valentino's own conspiracy theory. I understand Rossi's campaign against Lorenzo has made you sour, but why give up common sense because of that.

I didn't read the whole thread, but again: the very simple facts (some of them debatable, but that's secondary) that you listed, even if accepted in toto, can never support the mentioned conspiracy theory, which remains a completely arbitrary conclusion.

It's like saying that since you may like vanilla ice cream (fact) and the local ice cream parlour last week stopped selling vanilla (fact), then there is a conspiracy against you to prevent you from enjoying your favorite ice cream (ops... false!). It's a classic false syllogism, because the link drawn between the facts and the conclusion is arbitrary -- it's false in any language and in any logic system.

Someone called these "sylligisms". Why fall into that kind of pit.

JohnnyKnockdown · Jul 17, 2016

Championship over. When does Mundalito start?

moto vudu · Jul 17, 2016

Iamapony said:
I don't know if I believe this. I think it was just a calculation that gave Rossi more options to pass, if the track was still damp off line. I also think VR flat out screwed-up, just like MM has done in at least two other races under similar circumstances.

This time MM did it right. He is getting smarter along with getting better teamwork. If he and Repsol/Honda keep this up, he just might end-up with more titles than VR. He is so damn good. Meanwhile, JLo is having menstruation issues, and Ducati is thinking they got another Crutchlow and are going to be screwed the next couple of years.

Wait, you think Rossi & team decided to stick with intermediates so they could attempt passes on the damp areas off the racing line? I think Rossi is a talented rider, but holy .... bro!! When Rossi left the pits, everyone in front of him at least had a slick rear. Slicks on the dry line are at least 2 seconds a lap faster than intermediates. Your theory is Rossi planned on passing riders who were on slicks by using intermediates to pull off the racing line onto the wet sections of the track!

I really, really, needed that laugh.

michaelm · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
Dude, I don't know what you make a year, but if your company offers you Rossi-Money, and you take that gesture as a slap in the face, why the .... are you wasting your time on this message board?

Also, you have to admit, Yamaha's racing outcomes are pretty excellent for a marketing company.

Last time they made a decision they picked a 23 year old defending world champion over a 31 year old 7 times champion and have indeed won 2 more championships and many more races.

Let's see how this one works out. If their current best young prospect is Vinales and previous one was Pol Espargaro I am not sure either their marketing department or their racing department are showing the good judgement they may previously have had.

I don't think it was about getting more money than Rossi for Jorge anyway.

ReddiWhip · Jul 17, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Again, I looked at what the facts were. It's not my fault your yellow-tinted blinders prevent you from looking at the situation objectively. I never said he was riding around on training wheels.

I never said there was anything wrong with re-signing Rossi to another 2 year contract. What I said was wrong was offering the rider (Lorenzo) who has delivered more success to Yamaha Racing over the last 7 seasons than Valentino Rossi, and on top of that, the rider who just delivered another rider's title to Yamaha. Instead Yamaha had the gall to insult him by offering him an equal contract in spite of all of the success he has delivered to the team, all while his idolized teammate choked down the stretch in his first real chance of winning a title in 6 years much as he did a decade earlier. Finishing one position out of winning the title means precisely what? Not a ....... thing because he didn't win the title...and him winning the title would have been one of the worst things to ever happen in the history of grand prix motorcycle racing based purely on his disgusting behavior at Sepang when he crashed out a rider for daring to race him. Sadly his fans are myopic on this subject.

I've also stated that Rossi's marketing value is overvalued, and is complete ........ when you actually looked at the Yamaha motorcycle sales numbers, which he is supposed to be an intrinsic part of helping to sell if you believe the propaganda coming out of various quarters. He's so intrinsic, Yamaha Corporate didn't even deign to mention him in investor material as being a reason for sales dropping, or increasing.

His economic impact is far greater on DORNA, the commercial rights holder, in whose best interest it is to have Rossi on a competitive bike because they make money directly off of who competes; see the yellow parachute deal in the summer of 2012 when Carmelo Ezpeleta brokered his exit from Ducati back to a front-running bike all while Ben Spies conveniently suffered everything short of biblical plagues descending upon his garage.

Like most boppers, you seem to have a lot of difficulty in reading what is actual said, and generally engage in red herring fallacies in a pathetic effort to try and bolster a position that I was never debating, nor discussing. It makes it further amusing that you would bandy about the word reality since your entire post refutes nothing, and does a great job of talking straight out of your ....

Yeah, throwing out silly labels really proves your point. Once you resort to name calling, you've lost.

I read what you wrote, i just disagree with all of your premises. Also it's rather obvious that business tactics, press releases, and contract negotiations are not your areas of strength. Further, since most of your posts are nonsensical anti-Rossi bashings, i think it's fair to say you're not very objective on the topic. Case in point, your hinting that Spies was sabotaged for Rossi's benefit. Good one!

ReddiWhip · Jul 17, 2016

michaelm said:
Last time they made a decision they picked a 23 year old defending world champion over a 31 year old 7 times champion and have indeed won 3 more championships and many more races.

Let's see how this one works out. If their current best young prospect is Zvinales and previous one was Pol Espargaro I am not sure either their racing department or their racing department are showing the good judgement they may previously have had.

I don't think it was about getting more money than Rossi for Jorge anyway.

I agree all around. That had nothing to do with it. All I was pointing out with lotus was that when Rossi is a perennial leader as far as earnings go, and another rider (any rider) gets a Rossi Money contract, they haven't been wronged monetarily. Lotus said it would be considered a slap in the face based on other criteria. I disagree. Nothing wrong with that in my book. When a rider goes to the bank and deposits money, the teller doesn't prorate based on wins. Money is money, and he was offered a lot. So clearly there were other factors, which is why I posted the Jarvis quote. Did Ducati offer more? Yes, they would HAVE to based on the bike and the team widely being considered inferior to Yamaha at the moment.

evo9 · Jul 17, 2016

Richy56 said:
For those who yesterday said wait until tomorrow, well I did.

What I saw was a masterclass team performance by Honda, Marquez rode that dry line brilliantly. Great to see dovi on the podium too

Rossi thought he was God by trying to walk on water again and ignoring his team, he should know better with his experience.

Lorenzo kept it on the island and after a disastorous mid season, still out performs his teammate overall. My word Yamaha are in the .... next year

Classic

Reminds me of these words from Stoner. "ambition out outweighs the talent" In this case, stupidity outweighs pit board

ReddiWhip · Jul 17, 2016

Iamapony said:
You can only post about racing, if you are a broke @sshat, or something? Nice, pal. Perhaps you should keep your remarks just about yourself, since I doubt you know much about me, or anyone else. Just something to consider before you insult everyone posting here, including yourself..

Clearly, that was a joke. I even went as far as to put the smile face on there. I tried to point out that virtually no one on earth would turn their nose up at that money which was his assertion. That was his opinion, which is why I framed it around him. No offense intended to him or anyone else.

JPSLotus · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
Yeah, throwing out silly labels really proves your point. Once you resort to name calling, you've lost.

I read what you wrote, i just disagree with all of your premises. Also it's rather obvious that business tactics, press releases, and contract negotiations are not your areas of strength. Further, since most of your posts are nonsensical anti-Rossi bashings, i think it's fair to say you're not very objective on the topic. Case in point, your hinting that Spies was sabotaged for Rossi's benefit. Good one!

So you have an opportunity to make an intelligent post, and demur on it.

JPSLotus · Jul 17, 2016

ReddiWhip said:
Clearly, that was a joke. I even went as far as to put the smile face on there. I tried to point out that virtually no one on earth would turn their nose up at that money which was his assertion. That was his opinion, which is why I framed it around him. No offense intended to him or anyone else.

Your ability to convey jokes is not your area of strength, you should find something else to do.

ReddiWhip · Jul 17, 2016

JPSLotus said:
Your ability to convey jokes is not your area of strength, you should find something else to do.

Hey, you may be right!

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