This is very interesting. I worry how expensive motogp has to get before the Big manufacturers pull out?
I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 25 2007, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I worry how expensive motogp has to get before the Big manufacturers pull out?
let's hope it never comes to this.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 25 2007, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
i don't know about this 1200 for twin stuff. it's just turnin the clocks back. they have to quit screwing around with the rules & just leave it be for a while.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 25 2007, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
i don't know about this 1200 for twin stuff. it's just turnin the clocks back. they have to quit screwing around with the rules & just leave it be for a while.
That i agree with. The rules need to be consistent for a few years before the development settles down and it gets really competaive. The 990 racing got better every year untill they changed it. If the rules change every year then we have taken another step to F1 land. We don't want that
Interesting read Frosty. Troy Balyliss' result in Valencia was truly exceptional but I think as a single incident it doesn't warrant any panic on our part. Dennis Noyes is obviously a big WSB fan, and anyone involved with WSB has more to worry about in my opinion. Most will agree it can never rival GP's in terms of spectacle or prestige. Gp's are on the cusp of a great era, if we're not there already and there won't be any more rule changes for a while to upset the huge momentum the series has gained since 4-strokes arrived. Things are rosy for GP's. Let the Flaminis and Ducati argue all they want.
if superbike engines get bigger and motogp engines get smaller they could end up with similar lap times, that scary cos it will meen the demise of one of the championships.
Joined Jul 2006
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they should have never dropped the CC's in GP....hell they used 500's for what, 25 years??....990's for only 5 years?... they need to quit f##king around and bump up to 1000cc's....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 25 2007, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>they should have never dropped the CC's in GP....hell they used 500's for what, 25 years??....990's for only 5 years?... they need to quit f##king around and bump up to 1000cc's....
yeah, and i want to see turbo,superchargers turbine engines ect,anything thats fast really
yeah, and i want to see turbo,superchargers turbine engines ect,anything thats fast really
Joined May 2006
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What! Another great read. Thanks Frosty!
I’ve always wondered why Pirelli is not in MotoGP. I know it’s a huge cost, but look how gp technology trickles down to what we can buy off the showroom floor. 600’s are feeling like 250’s, and liter bikes are falling into 600’ish handling levels. With MotoGP now testing 16” wheels and everyone racing 16.5”, soon we should be seeing a smaller wheel in the showrooms. Pirelli could help more than ever in closing this gap in WSB to MotoGP, and I’m for it. Makes everyone step it up, Motogp, WSB, etc…to finally what you and I can own to make us think we feel like Marco, Loris, Troy, Nicky, Vale… I can’t wait for the day to hear someone say “This latest batch of liter bikes, are as flickable as bicycles!!!”
I think one big benefit to the drop in cc's for gp, is we will soon see a dramatic change in the layout of the bikes. Good by telescopic forks etc... Less cc's dose not equal slower lap times. Bikes will get faster and faster in the corners. They just need to make safe race tracks safer!
I’ve always wondered why Pirelli is not in MotoGP. I know it’s a huge cost, but look how gp technology trickles down to what we can buy off the showroom floor. 600’s are feeling like 250’s, and liter bikes are falling into 600’ish handling levels. With MotoGP now testing 16” wheels and everyone racing 16.5”, soon we should be seeing a smaller wheel in the showrooms. Pirelli could help more than ever in closing this gap in WSB to MotoGP, and I’m for it. Makes everyone step it up, Motogp, WSB, etc…to finally what you and I can own to make us think we feel like Marco, Loris, Troy, Nicky, Vale… I can’t wait for the day to hear someone say “This latest batch of liter bikes, are as flickable as bicycles!!!”
I think one big benefit to the drop in cc's for gp, is we will soon see a dramatic change in the layout of the bikes. Good by telescopic forks etc... Less cc's dose not equal slower lap times. Bikes will get faster and faster in the corners. They just need to make safe race tracks safer!
Joined Oct 2006
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Jan 25 2007, 06:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>they should have never dropped the CC's in GP....hell they used 500's for what, 25 years??....990's for only 5 years?... they need to quit f##king around and bump up to 1000cc's....
Back to 750 v4 2 strokes. Sod Honda and lets get back to bikes that only the big guys can stay on, never mind race them.
Keep superbikes for diesels and get the GP boys back on the real thing!
Pete
Back to 750 v4 2 strokes. Sod Honda and lets get back to bikes that only the big guys can stay on, never mind race them.
Keep superbikes for diesels and get the GP boys back on the real thing!
Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 25 2007, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>This is very interesting. I worry how expensive motogp has to get before the Big manufacturers pull out?
I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
I think the idea of 1200cc superbikes is assinine. Instead of crying about the rules and getting changes to stack the deck in their favor. Ducati should instead try designing a better, less expensive machine to maintain. The whole Idea that they can only compete with a larger engine speaks volume to their inability to design a bike that is more reliable and produces more power.
I am starting to warm to the idea of the 1200's in superbike. I think the engine tuning rules should be equal, and the performance then equalized with minimum weights. As long as the racing stays exciting then i will be happy. Apparently the engine tuning in British superbikes is going to be reduced to superstock levels in 2008 for cheapness and safety. Maybe thats a good thing.
I think the idea of 1200cc superbikes is assinine. Instead of crying about the rules and getting changes to stack the deck in their favor. Ducati should instead try designing a better, less expensive machine to maintain. The whole Idea that they can only compete with a larger engine speaks volume to their inability to design a bike that is more reliable and produces more power.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 25 2007, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Keep superbikes for diesels and get the GP boys back on the real thing!
Why? Don't you like good riders in other series? Or are you afraid your boy's prestige will be a bit tarnished. No need to worry man, he’s the “king” (crash.net said so). This is why I think, with good merit, it can be debated that the best motorcycle rider is not necessarily in MotoGP.
But in a way I do agree with you, they should make one series the undisputed pinnacle (assuming this is what you were suggesting; you know I have trouble understanding your Scottish accent on this site, maybe that’s why we keep misunderstanding eachother).
Great read!
Why? Don't you like good riders in other series? Or are you afraid your boy's prestige will be a bit tarnished. No need to worry man, he’s the “king” (crash.net said so). This is why I think, with good merit, it can be debated that the best motorcycle rider is not necessarily in MotoGP.
But in a way I do agree with you, they should make one series the undisputed pinnacle (assuming this is what you were suggesting; you know I have trouble understanding your Scottish accent on this site, maybe that’s why we keep misunderstanding eachother).
Great read!
Bugger the filthy two strokes, the 990s was a good descision. Honda just used the death of Kato as an excuse for another rule change to keep the others from getting a good hold. The real problem with Kato's death was track safety. The RCV didn't kill Kato, the wall did.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 26 2007, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the 990s was a good descision. Honda just used the death of Kato as an excuse for another rule change to keep the others from getting a good hold. The real problem with Kato's death was track safety. The RCV didn't kill Kato, the wall did.
990's wa a good desision but it's a shame the 2 strokes were faded out completly.
i agree with your honda using kato's death for there own advantage statment.
990's wa a good desision but it's a shame the 2 strokes were faded out completly.
i agree with your honda using kato's death for there own advantage statment.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 26 2007, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>990's wa a good desision but it's a shame the 2 strokes were faded out completly.
i agree with your honda using kato's death for there own advantage statment.
Yep I agree as well but the funny thing is that it hasn't gone Honda's way since the change. Dorma & FIM have to be carefull not the make the bikes any slower, the top 5 guys in the 250cc class on certain circuits could run with the Motogp guys and I don't mean tailenders.
i agree with your honda using kato's death for there own advantage statment.
Yep I agree as well but the funny thing is that it hasn't gone Honda's way since the change. Dorma & FIM have to be carefull not the make the bikes any slower, the top 5 guys in the 250cc class on certain circuits could run with the Motogp guys and I don't mean tailenders.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 26 2007, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Bugger the filthy two strokes, the 990s was a good descision. Honda just used the death of Kato as an excuse for another rule change to keep the others from getting a good hold. The real problem with Kato's death was track safety. The RCV didn't kill Kato, the wall did.
I think Honda was genuinly upset at the loss of Kato, and wanted to be seen as a major force in safetey improvements. Kato was their favorite sun, and to have him killed on one of their bikes and take no action would have been unacceptable (to them). But i think when it came down to it, the rules they suggested were rules that they wanted. But they don't work significantly to their advantage anyway, so i am not gonna complain
I think Honda was genuinly upset at the loss of Kato, and wanted to be seen as a major force in safetey improvements. Kato was their favorite sun, and to have him killed on one of their bikes and take no action would have been unacceptable (to them). But i think when it came down to it, the rules they suggested were rules that they wanted. But they don't work significantly to their advantage anyway, so i am not gonna complain
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ogunski @ Jan 26 2007, 01:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think the idea of 1200cc superbikes is assinine. Instead of crying about the rules and getting changes to stack the deck in their favor. Ducati should instead try designing a better, less expensive machine to maintain. The whole Idea that they can only compete with a larger engine speaks volume to their inability to design a bike that is more reliable and produces more power.
Do you know how expensive it is to develop a new engine?
Do you know how small the Ducati factoy really is?
Do you know that they could use the Desmosedici V4 but are too stubborn to do it, due to tradition?
Do you know how expensive it is to develop a new engine?
Do you know how small the Ducati factoy really is?
Do you know that they could use the Desmosedici V4 but are too stubborn to do it, due to tradition?
for me - it makes no difference how fast the WSB bikes are getting - the premiere league riders are in Moto GP and that is the reason that it's where everyone wants to be. I don't believe there's a single rider in WSB who wouldn't make the switch if they could get a good MotoGP ride.
that said, i still don't follow the logic in reducing Moto GP bikes to 800cc because, as they've shown - it sure as hell hasn't slowed them down.
As for Ducati, i think it's reasonable for them to get the green light for the 1200cc motors - yes they're winning WSB & very nearly BSB with the 999 but it's costing them an astronimical amount of money to do it whereas anyone can get hold of a blade, some trick bits and handy rider and go just as fast for a relative pitance.
To say Ducati are "stack[ing] the deck in their favor" is hardly fair when currently the 4's all have a couple of pocket aces
If Ducati don't get this concession then they wont be able to race because they are replacing the under-powered 999 road bike (so that they are on a par with the 1 litre 4's) - end of. If ducati pull out of WSB then it will be a great shame IMO
that said, i still don't follow the logic in reducing Moto GP bikes to 800cc because, as they've shown - it sure as hell hasn't slowed them down.
As for Ducati, i think it's reasonable for them to get the green light for the 1200cc motors - yes they're winning WSB & very nearly BSB with the 999 but it's costing them an astronimical amount of money to do it whereas anyone can get hold of a blade, some trick bits and handy rider and go just as fast for a relative pitance.
To say Ducati are "stack[ing] the deck in their favor" is hardly fair when currently the 4's all have a couple of pocket aces
If Ducati don't get this concession then they wont be able to race because they are replacing the under-powered 999 road bike (so that they are on a par with the 1 litre 4's) - end of. If ducati pull out of WSB then it will be a great shame IMO
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ Jan 26 2007, 04:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>that said, i still don't follow the logic in reducing Moto GP bikes to 800cc because, as they've shown - it sure as hell hasn't slowed them down.
I’ve been scratching my head about this one too. I don't for on nano second thin it had anything to do with safety. Who ever thinks it was is a fool. Hey lets make the bikes safer, so they can be slower on the straights where virtually no accidents happen, and faster on the curves, where virtually all accidents happen. Brilliant. I don't understand why they changed to 800s, I think it was rather ......... I've read all the explanations, none of which are convincing. I say go to the liter and stay there.
I’ve been scratching my head about this one too. I don't for on nano second thin it had anything to do with safety. Who ever thinks it was is a fool. Hey lets make the bikes safer, so they can be slower on the straights where virtually no accidents happen, and faster on the curves, where virtually all accidents happen. Brilliant. I don't understand why they changed to 800s, I think it was rather ......... I've read all the explanations, none of which are convincing. I say go to the liter and stay there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 26 2007, 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I’ve been scratching my head about this one too. I don't for on nano second thin it had anything to do with safety. Who ever thinks it was is a fool. Hey lets make the bikes safer, so they can be slower on the straights where virtually no accidents happen, and faster on the curves, where virtually all accidents happen. Brilliant. I don't understand why they changed to 800s, I think it was rather ......... I've read all the explanations, none of which are convincing. I say go to the liter and stay there.
yup you got it mate. corprate bullying i think. were huge do as we want or we will pull out.
cos im pissed ill let you into a little secret.. its not haydem i hate its honda
yup you got it mate. corprate bullying i think. were huge do as we want or we will pull out.
cos im pissed ill let you into a little secret.. its not haydem i hate its honda
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