Glen Richards wants all-Evo BSB

LINK

I find this article to be fascinating simply b/c Richard's argument is very similar to argument made by DMG prior to the 2009 AMA season. In BSB the Evo class seems to be welcomed by riders who are tired of riding 220hp bikes around circuits with walls everywhere, in the AMA the changes have been universally slammed by most of the major players in the paddock, and almost no one besides DMG have made any positive statements. AMA SBKs are certainly less sophisticated than Evo bikes, but the frame rules in the AMA are the same as those found in WSBK.

Richards claims that stock race-prepped engines with a spec ECU will be good for 190hp so they will be proper race bikes. In the AMA we have no spec ECU and the manufacturers are allowed to make cam mods. Is it reasonable to say that AMA SBKs still put out well over 200hp? If they ditched the cam mods and allowed after market swingarms (full WSBK chassis), would AMA SBK be more legitimate?

I'm just very confused why the Evo class is relatively uncontroversial and lauded by some of the participants, while AMA SBK has gone over like a lead balloon. I can only conclude that mismanagement by DMG mixed with panicking AMA fans, teams, and manufacturers has created the disaster in America.

And he is a fool. Leaving a real Superbike class and having the EVO class was smart. If they had come in and told the fans, riders and team owners they were basically to stupid to understand their genious,they would have had the same resentment that RE has got going for him. At least they were smart enough NOT to follow that playbook. Whatever you want to call it,dumbed down machines for the sake of competition is a losing proposistion. WSBK is wildly popular at the moment because they have not chose to go backwards in performance. When and if they do go backwards because of a rules change, i predict a fall out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 19 2009, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And he is a fool. Leaving a real Superbike class and having the EVO class was smart. If they had come in and told the fans, riders and team owners they were basically to stupid to understand their genious,they would have had the same resentment that RE has got going for him. At least they were smart enough NOT to follow that playbook. Whatever you want to call it,dumbed down machines for the sake of competition is a losing proposistion. WSBK is wildly popular at the moment because they have not chose to go backwards in performance. When and if they do go backwards because of a rules change, i predict a fall out.

I don't think that is it at all. BSB is run entirely by people who race for a living, their are no "factory" teams only teams that have signed deals with factories to run certain equipment and receive a certain level of support. These people are not inclined to withdraw from competition over something petty. If you can believe Edmondson (history seems to corroborate his account) they negotiated the AMA rules for a very long time and it ultimately came down to the manufacturers refusing to supply anything other than 2 factory bikes, regardless of the state of tune.

Racing is not Ray Blank's livelihood and he doesn't earn any money doing it. That's why he was perfectly content to withdraw at the beginning of 2009 and then withdraw again at the end of 2009. Blank doesn't care about racing, he cares about Honda's marketing plan and Honda's brand identity. The fans are writing him a blank check so that he can make an ... of himself. If the fans got pissed at Honda for withdrawing, Honda would rejoin the series immediately. But the fans pretend he is a shrewd business man who has made the correct moral decision.

BSB have only privateer teams who sign contracts with the manufacturers. BSB is making a push to eliminate engine modifications and use a spec-ECU to eliminate TC. BSB pulls the pace car out in front of the bikes. Some BSB riders are apparently quite happy to see a small reduction in race pace in order to make major safety improvements.

Everyone in America claims that Europe is the racing authority for everything so why does it make sense for BSB, but not for the AMA? DMG have made people angry, but they are not the reason American road racing fans have abandoned sensibility.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Oct 19 2009, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't think that is it at all. BSB is run entirely by people who race for a living, their are no "factory" teams only teams that have signed deals with factories to run certain equipment and receive a certain level of support. These people are not inclined to withdraw from competition over something petty. If you can believe Edmondson (history seems to corroborate his account) they negotiated the AMA rules for a very long time and it ultimately came down to the manufacturers refusing to supply anything other than 2 factory bikes, regardless of the state of tune.

Racing is not Ray Blank's livelihood and he doesn't earn any money doing it. That's why he was perfectly content to withdraw at the beginning of 2009 and then withdraw again at the end of 2009. Blank doesn't care about racing, he cares about Honda's marketing plan and Honda's brand identity. The fans are writing him a blank check so that he can make an ... of himself. If the fans got pissed at Honda for withdrawing, Honda would rejoin the series immediately. But the fans pretend he is a shrewd business man who has made the correct moral decision.

BSB have only privateer teams who sign contracts with the manufacturers. BSB is making a push to eliminate engine modifications and use a spec-ECU to eliminate TC. BSB pulls the pace car out in front of the bikes. Some BSB riders are apparently quite happy to see a small reduction in race pace in order to make major safety improvements.

Everyone in America claims that Europe is the racing authority for everything so why does it make sense for BSB, but not for the AMA? DMG have made people angry, but they are not the reason American road racing fans have abandoned sensibility.
Which takes me back a month or so,regardless of how you do it,you HAVE TO MAKE THE FAN HAPPY. At this point,im not sure RE could do anything to make fans get on board WITH HIM. He needs to go for the sake of the series and according to Soup,that rumor has been flying around.
http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091016koa.htm

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 19 2009, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Which takes me back a month or so,regardless of how you do it,you HAVE TO MAKE THE FAN HAPPY. At this point,im not sure RE could do anything to make fans get on board WITH HIM. He needs to go for the sake of the series and according to Soup,that rumor has been flying around.
http://superbikeplanet.com/2009/Oct/091016koa.htm

The fans would be happy if the manufacturers provided satellite bikes. The fans would be happy if the manufacturers signed contracts with several private teams to receive factory support. The fans would be happy if the AMA was more cost effective and the manufacturers were able to put more money in the stands. The fans would be happy if DMG attracted new fans and restored live coverage or very short delays.

DMG have done a few things that have really pissed the fans off like the rolling starts and the pace car disasters at Daytona and Laguna. The piss poor equipment is entirely the manufacturers responsibility. This is the complete crap deal the lot of them were able to negotiate over the 6 month off season.

Why doesn't Blank just nut up and pull and Ecclestone? He should form his own racing team and sign a contract with Honda for factory support. He can use the factory support to obtain a loan so he can buy some of Honda's racing assets. He still has a huge say in the sport, but Honda NA is technically on the sideline. As long as the board approves it, he's in the clear.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 19 2009, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>WSBK is wildly popular at the moment because they have not chose to go backwards in performance. When and if they do go backwards because of a rules change, i predict a fall out.

How did you narrow WSBK's popularity down to this one reason? Did they not go backwards when they introduced the control tire? The series went through a rough period but stuck it out; now SBK is back and as good as ever!

Going backwards in performance is common throughout racing. The performance is eventually clawed back as technology in various areas improves.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 19 2009, 10:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>How did you narrow WSBK's popularity down to this one reason? Did they not go backwards when they introduced the control tire? The series went through a rough period but stuck it out; now SBK is back and as good as ever!

Going backwards in performance is common throughout racing. The performance is eventually clawed back as technology in various areas improves.
You agreed with me without realizing it. Yes,they went backwards and the popularity of the series suffered. That, along with perception that Ducati was being given a performance advantage almost killed the series [sound familiar-hint Buell]. Performance came back and tech regs were balanced out and they started breaking track records and VIOLA,the series became popular again. Race fans are funny that way,they want to see the envelope pushed to the limit,its why we go to the track.Every race fan i know,regardless of the series, loves it when someone gets it right, pushes the limit and shreds the competition. I never hear these words at Monday morning coffee. Man,those restricted cars,bikes,whatever, sure does make for some exciting racing. I love it when a 2nd tier rider,driver, runs in a pack at the front because the top tier riders are better than their machines.What i hear is, wow, so and so was hooked up and kicked some ... this weekend. Everyone else better get their .... together or he is going to walk away with this thing.What promoters fail to realize is there is only so many race fans,gutting performance to manufacture close racing is not going to bring in as many new fans as it drives away the old.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 20 2009, 06:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You agreed with me without realizing it. Yes,they went backwards and the popularity of the series suffered. That, along with perception that Ducati was being given a performance advantage almost killed the series [sound familiar-hint Buell]. Performance came back and tech regs were balanced out and they started breaking track records and VIOLA,the series became popular again. Race fans are funny that way,they want to see the envelope pushed to the limit,its why we go to the track.Every race fan i know,regardless of the series, loves it when someone gets it right, pushes the limit and shreds the competition. I never hear these words at Monday morning coffee. Man,those restricted cars,bikes,whatever, sure does make for some exciting racing. I love it when a 2nd tier rider,driver, runs in a pack at the front because the top tier riders are better than their machines.What i hear is, wow, so and so was hooked up and kicked some ... this weekend. Everyone else better get their .... together or he is going to walk away with this thing.What promoters fail to realize is there is only so many race fans,gutting performance to manufacture close racing is not going to bring in as many new fans as it drives away the old.

But the second part of my post, about performance gradually returning after restrictions are placed, makes the bolded statement complete. Just because the level of tune is scaled back in some area, or something is taken away, doesn't mean lap times are permanently lowered. The production-based bikes will claw back performance as the street machines they are based on get better.

There are few race series that allow the machines to be as fast as they could possibly go. Formula 1 has aero, tire, electronic, and engine construction limits; Sports Prototypes no longer push 900hp; Even before the CoT, stock cars weren't hitting 220 at the super speedways; World Touring Cars don't hold a candle to the nearly unlimited DTM cars of the 90s, etc.

Moto 2 will have spec engines and seems to be generating some excitement for next year.

Is there a major racing championship that couldn't be said to have restrictions on some level?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 20 2009, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But the second part of my post, about performance gradually returning after restrictions are placed, makes the bolded statement complete. Just because the level of tune is scaled back in some area, or something is taken away, doesn't mean lap times are permanently lowered. The production-based bikes will claw back performance as the street machines they are based on get better.

There are few race series that allow the machines to be as fast as they could possibly go. Formula 1 has aero, tire, electronic, and engine construction limits; Sports Prototypes no longer push 900hp; Even before the CoT, stock cars weren't hitting 220 at the super speedways; World Touring Cars don't hold a candle to the nearly unlimited DTM cars of the 90s, etc.

Moto 2 will have spec engines and seems to be generating some excitement for next year.

Is there a major racing championship that couldn't be said to have restrictions on some level?
Nascar has suffered in attendance because of going backwards in performance. I used to go to both Talldaega races every year, and yes they were hitting 220 mph + on the back straight and in the tri oval. I went to the first race with plates and have never been back. Back then,you didnt just walk up and buy a ticket,since plate racing started they offer seats for as low as 25 bucks a pop just to put ..... in the seats.The COT might be safe,but it has been an unmitigated disaster as far as attendance. Moto 2 will be faster than the 250's after a year of fine tuning,maybe less. Going backwards is the kiss of death for almost all racing series.The old fan isnt to hip about paying big money too see what he saw 10 years ago. Racing is about speed records,if you cant go to a race track with the possibility of seeing a record broke,it isnt worth going. Its not just me that feels that way,it a huge majority of race fans and the sanctioning bodies had better figure that part out.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 20 2009, 05:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes,they went backwards and the popularity of the series suffered. That, along with perception that Ducati was being given a performance advantage almost killed the series [sound familiar-hint Buell].

I think that MotoGP moving to only 4 strokes in 2003 is what ultimately caused WSBK to suffer. InFront (whatever they were called back then) knew that they were going to lose a lot of 4-stroke development money from the manufacturers and they probably lost a lot of support from the tire manufacturers as well.

The 2003 regulations changes were actually anti-Ducati b/c they can't keep up under a 1000cc formula without extraordinary levels of engine tuning.

They announced in 2007 that Ducati was getting an extra 200cc. The sport has been increasing in popularity since then so that means the fans actually like the Ducati skewed rules...............or maybe it was b/c GP switched to 800s.

Restrictor plates have been around since 1988. How do you figure that NASCAR declined as a result of restrictor plates. If anything is The Chase and the COT that are driving traditional fans crazy. Jimmie Johnson winning everything doesn't help either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 20 2009, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nascar has suffered in attendance because of going backwards in performance. I used to go to both Talldaega races every year, and yes they were hitting 220 mph + on the back straight and in the tri oval. I went to the first race with plates and have never been back. Back then,you didnt just walk up and buy a ticket,since plate racing started they offer seats for as low as 25 bucks a pop just to put ..... in the seats.The COT might be safe,but it has been an unmitigated disaster as far as attendance. Moto 2 will be faster than the 250's after a year of fine tuning,maybe less. Going backwards is the kiss of death for almost all racing series.The old fan isnt to hip about paying big money too see what he saw 10 years ago. Racing is about speed records,if you cant go to a race track with the possibility of seeing a record broke,it isnt worth going. Its not just me that feels that way,it a huge majority of race fans and the sanctioning bodies had better figure that part out.

Nascar experienced its mainstream popularity growth well into the restrictor plate age. If anything, I would imagine the mainstream fans like the pack racing, which is probably why plates are still being used, despite Carl Edwards' near disaster at 'dega.

I don't agree that racing in general is about speed records (drag racing and salt flat racing, sure). There are lap records and average speeds that may never be reached again due to technical rule changes and track modifications.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 20 2009, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nascar experienced its mainstream popularity growth well into the restrictor plate age. If anything, I would imagine the mainstream fans like the pack racing, which is probably why plates are still being used, despite Carl Edwards' near disaster at 'dega.

I don't agree that racing in general is about speed records (drag racing and salt flat racing, sure). There are lap records and average speeds that may never be reached again due to technical rule changes and track modifications.
Except at Daytona and Talladega.The other tracks enjoyed years of cars getting faster and faster until the COT came along, and now there are empty seats at every track,except Bristol.It looks as if the Edwards accident has convinced Nascar to make another stupid decision. They are going to an even smaller restrictor plate for the upcoming race.Lets see how that affects the fans interest.They are guessing speeds of the high 170's on a 2.66 mile high banked track. That should be exciting.I could get more excitment driving thru Atlanta at 5 PM.