German Grand Prix

Rossi & Stoner awesome today.
CV masterful.
If Dani looks unhappy on the podium imagine how he looked after testing the airfence.
Melandri has had has 2009 contract torn up. Kawaski are offering him Hopkins seat for the rest of the year. Will he be back after the break?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evolution @ Jul 13 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you have any proof? And dont compare it to qualifying. When a rider is lapped in a real race he must make way immediately

Well i read a few comments very recently in the unpopular riders topic, for more you could look back at each time a rider gets upset and see the "arrogant" label flying around the relative topics.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 13 2008, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Was slightly amused to see Rossi acting in a way that many of his fans have critisized as "arrogant" when others have done similar, but these guys get furstrated sometimes.
Eye of the beholder? You did notice his clear "get out of the line" gesture? Allthough kicking against others might have the same come out of similar situations it sure doesn't have the same style. Not that I care, as you said these guys get frustrated and even scared when others do stupid things and reactions will come. I don't mind Stoner kicking around all year, in fact that's a facet of his personality Rossi should look closer into. Follwoing Stoner for a few stints and even insist on staying behind Stoner during the warmup lap would probably make Stoner go ballistic
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Can Stoner be stopped?
See above

In other words, all these gestures are something to exploit, not to complain about.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jul 13 2008, 04:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well i read a few comments very recently in the unpopular riders topic, for more you could look back at each time a rider gets upset and see the "arrogant" label flying around the relative topics.

You can't compare a rider trying to kick another in qualifying and a rider that is about to be lapped and doesn't allow to pass! And Rossi didn't try to punch him (like the Stoneds "saw" it )

And just to show you how arrogant Stoner is, let's go back to last year. Remember that time in 2007 and Stoner crashed in testing (can't remember the track) and said something like "that was just a stupid crash...but that bump in the head will make me faster!!!". And this year when Melandri (who has enough problems) block him and he started to shake his head!!! Isn't that arrogant?

Nice race it was kinda bored but nice too for me , you don't know what could happend in a wet race.

Pedrosa was doing nice laps , way to nice, he pushed to hard i think when it was not necesary at all 7+ secs of gap , it was his own fault too bad for him. Stoner started to do nice laps after he got a little more confidence i think and Rossi came from behind again and now is on top of the championship .

Nice race by Vermulen he got into Rossi's tail but i don't know wut happened cause he slowed down, but he got a podium, this clearly shows he is an amazing wet race rider . I liked Dovi too he is very consistent in his bike 5th position again , too bad for Lorenzo he made another mistake again, and Melandri i think he is not gonna make it till Laguna

speaking of 250cc im glad to see Simoncelli dominating this wet race surely that new Gilera is a nice bike and he adapted to it really nice, the battle for the 2nd position betwen 5 riders was nice to watch for me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 13 2008, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Very uncharacteristic for dani. Maybe he has been reading in this forum how boring he is and how he never ventures anything. I for one would give him credit for having a go at putting a stamp on this race and the championship, ill advised though it may have been.

Pedrosa's a one-trick pony, and one with no plan, no real strategy. It was pure lack of strategy and arrogance trying to increase a 7 second lead on tires that hadn't warmed up yet. How stupid.
K

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Jul 13 2008, 05:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Stoner had 16.000 in corners rev. That is just to fast Rossi 14.000. Rossi needs more corner speed. And Stoner flies out of every corner. Don't know about Pedrosa rev.

What the hell is going in Yamaha? And Honda too...
Now those M1s look like a paddock scooter. I think they don't understand competition to serious.

16 and 20 are big gap but Stoner is very threatening.

What the heck are you talking about? Corner revs? Tells you nothing what so ever. First of all the Ducati rev higher and would naturally carry higher revs all over the circut. Even so gear ratios are a compromise for the best fit for that bike/rider and revs can be quite different through turns even on bikes from the same team, all depending on the team's setup preferences.
Secondly I would say 16 000 is way to high for the yamaha and even a notch too high on the ducati through the turns. My guess is that 12 - 15 000 at apex would be much better to get the right drive out of the trun. But the reason might simply be that stoner didn't get his ratios right for the wet in that turn and had to go down an extra gear instead of using the same gear he would have used in dry conditions.
And FYI there is nothing wrong with the yamaha's corner speed. Rossi had regulary red numbers (fastest lap)in the to first two technical sections in this race, and lost most of his time in the last section where it is only two corners but plenty of hard acceleration onto shorter straights.

The Yamaha do lack some in power, but mainly in mid range to get out on the first parts of the straights but they are still much better off than last year. As close as the races are these days Rossi's and Yamahas weakest point are the starts. They brought new software with them this weekend but it sounded as if Rossi were not going to risk trying it with the unsafe weather and bad start of his practice. If that contain a better launch control that could become a key factor in the future.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheMaster170 @ Jul 13 2008, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You can't compare a rider trying to kick another in qualifying and a rider that is about to be lapped and doesn't allow to pass! And Rossi didn't try to punch him (like the Stoneds "saw" it )

A rider not on quick qualifying laps also has a responsibility to get out of the guys doing flyers, just like being lapped in a race. Ignored or not seen blue flags is something that sometimes has to be dealt with by a faster rider and i don't think a gesture of aggression/frustration is a huge deal (whether its made with feet or hands). Like i said i find it amusing after Stoner has been labled arrogant for this very action, people discover that it actually isn't uncommon.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 13 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not that I care, as you said these guys get frustrated and even scared when others do stupid things and reactions will come.

I agree

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 13 2008, 04:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa's a one-trick pony, and one with no plan, no real strategy.

Doubtful, he is one of the more calculating riders on the grid, hence why errors like today's are so rare.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Jul 13 2008, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pedrosa's a one-trick pony, and one with no plan, no real strategy. It was pure lack of strategy and arrogance trying to increase a 7 second lead on tires that hadn't warmed up yet. How stupid.
K

I strongly doubt that it had much to do with tire temperature. Not much heat you get in a race that wet, the watercooling is too efficient and the tires are designed to work well on low temps.

Except from that, I agree it was stupid to continue pushing for another 2 sec a lap increase in the lead. He should have setteled for the pace of the others or just slightly faster.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 13 2008, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I strongly doubt that it had much to do with tire temperature. Not much heat you get in a race that wet, the watercooling is too efficient and the tires are designed to work well on low temps.

Except from that, I agree it was stupid to continue pushing for another 2 sec a lap increase in the lead. He should have setteled for the pace of the others or just slightly faster.


Listen to Stoner in the post race interview. He said in essence that he didn't really begin to get up to speed until around the time that Pedro dumped because the tires weren't up to temperature.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 13 2008, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What the heck are you talking about? Corner revs? Tells you nothing what so ever. First of all the Ducati rev higher and would naturally carry higher revs all over the circut. Even so gear ratios are a compromise for the best fit for that bike/rider and revs can be quite different through turns even on bikes from the same team, all depending on the team's setup preferences.
Secondly I would say 16 000 is way to high for the yamaha and even a notch too high on the ducati through the turns. My guess is that 12 - 15 000 at apex would be much better to get the right drive out of the trun. But the reason might simply be that stoner didn't get his ratios right for the wet in that turn and had to go down an extra gear instead of using the same gear he would have used in dry conditions.
And FYI there is nothing wrong with the yamaha's corner speed. Rossi had regulary red numbers (fastest lap)in the to first two technical sections in this race, and lost most of his time in the last section where it is only two corners but plenty of hard acceleration onto shorter straights.

The Yamaha do lack some in power, but mainly in mid range to get out on the first parts of the straights but they are still much better off than last year. As close as the races are these days Rossi's and Yamahas weakest point are the starts. They brought new software with them this weekend but it sounded as if Rossi were not going to risk trying it with the unsafe weather and bad start of his practice. If that contain a better launch control that could become a key factor in the future.
Actually my mistype, I was typing 15.000....
Corner revs...My apologize since I'm not so good in race technical.
And for Yamaha's corner speed, as I read on my local newspaper Rossi wants the new software that can help him out of the corner and open up the throttle more quickly.
If that contains a better launch control that would be much better..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ Jul 13 2008, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Eye of the beholder? You did notice his clear "get out of the line" gesture? Allthough kicking against others might have the same come out of similar situations it sure doesn't have the same style. Not that I care, as you said these guys get frustrated and even scared when others do stupid things and reactions will come. I don't mind Stoner kicking around all year, in fact that's a facet of his personality Rossi should look closer into. Follwoing Stoner for a few stints and even insist on staying behind Stoner during the warmup lap would probably make Stoner go ballistic

In other words, all these gestures are something to exploit, not to complain about.
I actually think that stoner's demeanour was much better including in the post-race interviews this week, although he can never aspire to having rossi's style. Maybe he has had some coaching, is feeling more confident and/or relaxed about his status or is just becoming less brash with getting older.

I think you would agree he rode smart today, and I think he is getting smarter in general. Most of what people have labelled petulance occurred when he was thwarted during attempts to make a rossi-style last minute pole snatching demon qualifying lap, which dani pedrosa also often attempts, quite frequently successfully. I don't think this will be a problem for casey in the future as he appears to have abandoned this tactic, which in my view is sensible.

Another yawnfest Feel asleep watching it actually!

Dani looked like he really did have this in the bag on lap 2, he obviously felt good puting in those early fast times. Good for the race that he fell off, bad for his championship hopes.

When are Suzuki gonna move Vermolen to the world jet ski champs anyway?

That was supremely boring.

Looks like Pedro is out of Laguna. Intriguing championship points wise.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pinky @ Jul 13 2008, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>

First thought going through Pedder's head: "So this is how a fly on a windshield feels.."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Jul 13 2008, 06:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I actually think that stoner's demeanour was much better including in the post-race interviews this week, although he can never aspire to having rossi's style. Maybe he has had some coaching, is feeling more confident and/or relaxed about his status or is just becoming less brash with getting older.

I think you would agree he rode smart today, and I think he is getting smarter in general. Most of what people have labelled petulance occurred when he was thwarted during attempts to make a rossi-style last minute pole snatching demon qualifying lap, which dani pedrosa also often attempts, quite frequently successfully. I don't think this will be a problem for casey in the future as he appears to have abandoned this tactic, which in my view is sensible.

I didn't see the post race interview, we have a thing called Tour de France around here that take too much tv-time on eurosport so they cut us short.
But Stoner is young, to young to be able to see the results of his own doings and I sincerly hope he has some kind of coaching. Unless you are a natural like Rossi or Simonchelli I think it's important that these guys get some good advice regarding how to behave towards press and public.
With his sucsess lately I'm sure he has gotten much better, the art is to stay reasonably acceptable when things go against you. But as you see, coaching and age will help.

He sure rode a perfect race today. Took the lead in time to get a nice distance between himself and Rossi when Rossi finally got through the pack. Answered on Rossi's attacks in an impressive way, and finally slowing down to secure the win. I'm not sure about his desire to dominate though. He still can sit in the depot for laps just wathcing the others catching up. It's not really the watching I'm worried about but going too fast too soon. While he has totally stoped crashing in races he crash quite frequently in practice and often when going a lot faster than anyone. A crash like the one in FP2 might get him injured some day and then just for the desire of being a lot faster than anyone.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (#46 @ Jul 13 2008, 06:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Actually my mistype, I was typing 15.000....
Corner revs...My apologize since I'm not so good in race technical.
And for Yamaha's corner speed, as I read on my local newspaper Rossi wants the new software that can help him out of the corner and open up the throttle more quickly.
If that contains a better launch control that would be much better..

Any softwarerevison would hope to improve the drive out of corners but the main thing for Yamaha is still the punch in the engine when it's straight up. That and the launch control, but of cource, if they can improve in other areas that would mask the main weakness better.