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This story that Rossi is always overaggressive and that he is allowed to do so by the condescending officials is completely false. Rossi has a very long career already and the objectionable episodes are really very, very few. As a percentage of all his passes--he's done more passes in MotoGP than any other rider in activity--the number of questionable ones would be ridiculously low.



Rossi is great because of his skill AND determination. Last Sunday at Jerez it was a blunder, but using it to damn Rossi as a rider is the sign of a very biased mind. To which I can only repeat my recommendation to all haters (and all boppers): GET A LIFE
<
 
J4rn0 said:
This story that Rossi is always overaggressive and that he is allowed to do so by the condescending officials is completely false. Rossi has a very long career already and the objectionable episodes are really very, very few. As a percentage of all his passes--he's done more passes in MotoGP than any other rider in activity--the number of questionable ones would be ridiculously low.



Rossi is great because of his skill AND determination. Last Sunday at Jerez it was a blunder, but using it to damn Rossi as a rider is the sign of a very biased mind. To which I can only repeat my recommendation to all haters (and all boppers): GET A LIFE
<
Click to expand...



I agree that Rossi has made many many clean passes. But there has only been a few times in his career where there has been a competitor that was able to put up a real fight. Most of Rossi's career he has ridden around at 85 - 90%. Now days he has to ride at 105% to compete with guys who are his equal or perhaps a step above. As a result he is displaying this overly aggressive and desperate tactic far more frequently.
 
If it works, use it. No prizes for losing. Just people complaining about unfair, ungentlemanly or lacking etiquete tactics.
 
J4rn0 said:
This story that Rossi is always overaggressive and that he is allowed to do so by the condescending officials is completely false. Rossi has a very long career already and the objectionable episodes are really very, very few. As a percentage of all his passes--he's done more passes in MotoGP than any other rider in activity--the number of questionable ones would be ridiculously low.



Rossi is great because of his skill AND determination. Last Sunday at Jerez it was a blunder, but using it to damn Rossi as a rider is the sign of a very biased mind. To which I can only repeat my recommendation to all haters (and all boppers): GET A LIFE
<
Click to expand...

I seldom reply to your posts J4rn0, not because I necessarily concur, but because you assemble and express your facts so cogently, elegantly, and eloquently - - and I guess for the large part - you are the convincing voice amid a yellow sea of irrationality - a lone voice of reason crying out from a desert of ignorance - (although you still buy into the mirage of hype that surrounds the No.46). You are however prepared to debate in an informed way, and unlike so many Rossi devotees on this site are able to summon a wealth of racing pedigree and knowledge which is atypical of many of your counterparts.



How disappointing to see you too descend into the 'hater' and even 'bopper' terminology.



The view that Rossi has been forced to resort to increasingly desperate measure is a credible one. Last Sunday was indeed at the a least blunder, but to a Rossi afficanado as yourself - it was much more than that. Chiefly for scuppering his main rival's early championship bid and indeed his own assured victory. Far from a mere blunder - I would describe it more a gross and inept miscalculation. Off track - he didn't fare any better, the helmeted post race apology was a P/R abortion.



BarryMachine said:
Umm.... by what measure did it "work"??
<
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Precisely.
 
Arrabi, i take responsibility for J4rnos digress. He is one of the best Rossi supporters as u say. I think ive just got under his skin with my own antagonistic rant, he was just reacting.



J4rno, of course most all his passes r without incident. But we also hav a few examples of "passes" that wer much more meaningful in which i question the good faith execution of the move. As u say, perhaps my bias. Tell me, does Marco Simonchelli hav a reputation for hard aggressive tactics? Is that imaginary, or bias?
 
Jumkie said:
Arrabi, i take responsibility for J4rnos digress. He is one of the best Rossi supporters as u say. I think ive just got under his skin with my own antagonistic rant, he was just reacting.



J4rno, of course most all his passes r without incident. But we also hav a few examples of "passes" that wer much more meaningful in which i question the good faith execution of the move. As u say, perhaps my bias. Tell me, does Marco Simonchelli hav a reputation for hard aggressive tactics? Is that imaginary, or bias?
Click to expand...



Jum I know you are well aware of your exaggerations, but some of your "imitators" unfortunately take them seriously and try to "improve" on them, making the atmosphere of the forum somewhat really silly. Certainly I feel I have to defend Rossi from absurd charges that border on dementia, and I remember well I had to defend Stoner as well from similarly idiotic comments. No offense intended, but too much is just too much sometimes
<




Sic is young and is maturing every day. I remember i was quite a lonely voice when I predicted here that he would do well in MotoGP, and now there he is among the top riders. He will keep growing. Do not worry...
<
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
...

How disappointing to see you too descend into the 'hater' and even 'bopper' terminology.

....





.
Click to expand...



Make no mistake, when I use those terms I' m just quoting others
<


Anyway, Rossi's blunder is being inflated out of any reasonable proportions. Time will tell how many absurd conclusions are being drawn from this episode...
<
 
J4rn0 said:
Make no mistake, when I use those terms I' m just quoting others
<


Time will tell how many absurd conclusions are being drawn from this episode...
<
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As they were over Casey's 07 bike - which supposedly rode itself to a championship...and as one yellow disciple recently suggested - was a bike built for Stoner, the Donington comments, the lactose intolerance, the warm up crash at Valencia, the corkscrew incident, last years front ender at Qatar, etc etc
 
Arrabbiata1 said:
As they were over Casey's 07 bike - which supposedly rode itself to a championship...and as one yellow disciple recently suggested - was a bike built for Stoner, the Donington comments, the lactose intolerance, the warm up crash at Valencia, the corkscrew incident, last years front ender at Qatar, etc etc
Click to expand...



As are the SNS's, as is 2006, as are the back room deals, as is the shoulder, as is the corkscrew incident, as is the Herez 05 incident, as is the Motegi 2010 racing, as is the PI racing 2010, as is the Ducati moving heaven and earth incidents, as is the pre-season 2011, as is Bridgestonegate etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,





Two sides to every story, the admission I would like to see is

The existence of an equally ridiculous and often worse opposing

view, even a rebutle or two. This is the problem, as most are damning then acting like the damned. Which given the hypocrisy in a sense is far worse.....
 
Jumkie said:
MikeM, Mental Anarchist is completely right. Mayb u need to see the torpedo at Jerez again. It seems uve forgotten it. Its that soft justifucation that u just wrote thats allowed VR to race recklessly for years. Now that u, a Stoner fan, can u imagine what the conversation sounds like in the race direction booth? If u want to revise and describe something like a mere race incident, get in line, plenty of peeps scare to call it what it was, that includes Casey Stoner, who learned his lesson from Laguna 08, as with Lorenzo Motegi 10, that u simply dont call Rossi on the carpet. U think Casey doesnt know Rossi ...... him at Jerez? U dont think he didnt hav time to figure out that calling Rossi a recklesd .... would only insight the ire of the entire racing community like last time? Even previous champs trying to keep their own name in the lime light basically calling him a .....? Even with that witty remark u got ..... calling him ungracious, including Wayne Gardner. He cant win. Even some of Casey's fans soft peddle rationalizations for Rossi's desperate and pathetic move. But, he will win even when he ..... up, becuz nobody (except for very few) r willing to call his MO without adjusting it as time goes by. His move was .... on Sunday, it will still b .... next Sunday, and it will b .... in 10 years from now. Its only been blind dumb luck and skill to avoid disaster by other riders to account for them not being hurt. Mayb u would hav stayed more fired up if Casey would hav gone into the fence at the corkscrew, or broke his wrist again at Jerez? Quite amazing. VR is untouchable, and all of GP revolves around him. The sheep, brainless worshipping masses all have one thing in common, no sense of reality.
Click to expand...

I am not giving him a pass on the recent incident at all, I was just trying to say it in non-inflammatory language, obviously with more subtlety than I intended. I was blazingly angry during the race and its aftermath as you may recall, an unusual condition for me and one I don't find productive; I can justify it by it being provoked by the sport I most passionately follow, and we have previously agreed with brian clough that a sport one is involved with to this extent is not a matter of life and death, it's far more important than that
<
.



The really amusing thing, not generally from the rossi fans, but from the more extreme ones trying to make the trackside clapping or stoner's post -race comment the issue, is that valentino himself is in no way claiming it was a legitimate/reasonable pass gone wrong, but what he says apparently can't be allowed to get in the way of prejudicial views, as was evident with rob and the ducati engine/power issue. He is saying he went in too hot not intending to pass and zigged when stoner zagged. Only he will know the truth of this, and it sure looked like a pass attempt to me live as it apparently did to talpa, roger et al, but I was somewhat more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt after his more prolonged and completely unequivocal statement of apology at/in gp one as opposed to the perfunctory helmeted one.



My ongong concern apart from the points gap to the excellent jorge lorenzo is that stoner will get too caught up with the world being against him and the absence of fair play; the world is against him of course, as the ludicrous attempts of some to paint him as the villain of this piece again graphically demonstrate, but he needs to not let it concern him.
 
michaelm said:
I am not giving him a pass on the recent incident at all, I was just trying to say it in non-inflammatory language, obviously with more subtlety than I intended. I was blazingly angry during the race and its aftermath as you may recall, an unusual condition for me and one I don't find productive; I can justify it by it being provoked by the sport I most passionately follow, and we have previously agreed with brian clough that a sport one is involved with to this extent is not a matter of life and death, it's far more important than that
<
.



The really amusing thing, not generally from the rossi fans, but from the more extreme ones trying to make the trackside clapping or stoner's post -race comment the issue, is that valentino himself is in no way claiming it was a legitimate/reasonable pass gone wrong, but what he says apparently can't be allowed to get in the way of prejudicial views, as was evident with rob and the ducati engine/power issue. He is saying he went in too hot not intending to pass and zigged when stoner zagged. Only he will know the truth of this, and it sure looked like a pass attempt to me live as it apparently did to talpa, roger et al, but I was somewhat more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt after his more prolonged and completely unequivocal statement of apology at/in gp one as opposed to the perfunctory helmeted one.



My ongong concern apart from the points gap to the excellent jorge lorenzo is that stoner will get too caught up with the world being against him and the absence of fair play; the world is against him of course, as the ludicrous attempts of some to paint him as the villain of this piece again graphically demonstrate, but he needs to not let it concern him.
Click to expand...





Michael, excellent post - I have read all of this and not commented simply because I saw a racing incident. Vale stuffed up and took someone else down, it happened to be Stoner, I think Stoner is the rider who will get over it and it would seem that in the Honda camp he is getting good advice from people like Mick Doohan.



I still cite Lorenzo as the biggest threat to the title this year apart from Stoner, and Stoner would be a lot better off just letting this one go and ignoring Rossi for the present time.



Rossi didn't do it on purpose (why would he take himself out of a podium position?) and it was unfortunate for Stoner.



Everyone should just get over it.



And climbing the pit wall, good on him that's what I would have done. But it happened at Jerez and should be left there as well.
 
michaelm said:
I am not giving him a pass on the recent incident at all, I was just trying to say it in non-inflammatory language, obviously with more subtlety than I intended. I was blazingly angry during the race and its aftermath as you may recall, an unusual condition for me and one I don't find productive; I can justify it by it being provoked by the sport I most passionately follow, and we have previously agreed with brian clough that a sport one is involved with to this extent is not a matter of life and death, it's far more important than that
<
.



The really amusing thing, not generally from the rossi fans, but from the more extreme ones trying to make the trackside clapping or stoner's post -race comment the issue, is that valentino himself is in no way claiming it was a legitimate/reasonable pass gone wrong, but what he says apparently can't be allowed to get in the way of prejudicial views, as was evident with rob and the ducati engine/power issue. He is saying he went in too hot not intending to pass and zigged when stoner zagged. Only he will know the truth of this, and it sure looked like a pass attempt to me live as it apparently did to talpa, roger et al, but I was somewhat more inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt after his more prolonged and completely unequivocal statement of apology at/in gp one as opposed to the perfunctory helmeted one.



My ongong concern apart from the points gap to the excellent jorge lorenzo is that stoner will get too caught up with the world being against him and the absence of fair play; the world is against him of course, as the ludicrous attempts of some to paint him as the villain of this piece again graphically demonstrate, but he needs to not let it concern him.
Click to expand...

Very good post!

I wish I would have wrote that.
 
michaelm said:
I am not giving him a pass ...
Click to expand...

Poetry my friend.





(Not to beat a dead horse but...visions of Laguna Seca 1993 sometimes arise when I think of Laguna 2008. Same corner, an Australian by the name of Mick Doohan almost avoided disaster in what was the same space where Stoner took evasive action in 08. )
 
hawkdriver said:
I have no clue what he wants besides to win races but his prowess is recognized, the word is even getting spread by his peers. If anyone thinks he isn't one of the most talented men on a bike they are just crazy. There is no sport where a challenger gets the same treatment as a legend, making it to the top is supposed to be hard and the reason people love their sports heros. I'm hoping he makes a statement over the next few races and comes out fighting. Gladitorial, lol it's not like I think they should be racing with balll and chain and oil slick buttons.
Click to expand...



Truer words were never spoken.
 
lil red rocket pilot said:
Not been funny but how many folks do you know of a similar size to rossi that can pick up 150kg of bike on their own. Im not too sure any of the guys out there can do it without assistance. However on watchin the vid rossi was not started by the marshals he was only assisted in picking the bike up. where as stoner had a good number of marshals giving him a push to try & restart the bike. this says to me that stoner hit the kill switch when he went down & rossi didn,t. as a result the most probable reason for stoners rant about rossi, the marshals & whatever else that gets thrown into the mix was merely a cover for his own mistake. misfortune.

Now it could be said that stoner hit the switch because his machine was on top of rossi. that been the case more fool him, rossi was out from under that bike like a ferret after a rabbit and on his feet before the marshals got there. This was a racing incident. YES! Rossi did go in too hot and as a result lost the front end. BUT! if Stoner hadn,t hit the kill switch he too could have continued & it would have been sorted on the track.

All I can say is the incident is gonna make some excellent racing this year if rossi can get his act together & get the duc upto speed. the battles between him & stoner should be awsome! which in turn will provide some excellent viewing for all us fans IMO
wink.gif
Click to expand...



Others will add names - but first and foremost I would mention Mr. Stoner who (at Laguna) picked up the Duc on his own while

in the gravel.
 
J4rn0 said:
This story that Rossi is always overaggressive and that he is allowed to do so by the condescending officials is completely false. Rossi has a very long career already and the objectionable episodes are really very, very few. As a percentage of all his passes--he's done more passes in MotoGP than any other rider in activity--the number of questionable ones would be ridiculously low.



Rossi is great because of his skill AND determination. Last Sunday at Jerez it was a blunder, but using it to damn Rossi as a rider is the sign of a very biased mind. To which I can only repeat my recommendation to all haters (and all boppers): GET A LIFE
<
Click to expand...



That his unsportsman-like moves have been quietly ignored by officials is undeniable. Same with his buddy Simoncelli.



That's analogous to saying a cop with a long career should be lauded because over the years he's taken

relatively few bribes. Although you living in Italy, might feel that this is a reasonable standard of ethics.

In a country where politics and religion were for centuries in the hands of the Medicis, the Borgias (Yes - Spanish I know)

and the Machiavelli crew, undue influence and privilege along with ignoring of basic codes of ethics might seem the norm.
<
 
Mental Anarchist said:
I agree that Rossi has made many many clean passes. But there has only been a few times in his career where there has been a competitor that was able to put up a real fight. Most of Rossi's career he has ridden around at 85 - 90%. Now days he has to ride at 105% to compete with guys who are his equal or perhaps a step above. As a result he is displaying this overly aggressive and desperate tactic far more frequently.
Click to expand...



That's just your interpretation, man. One I certainly do not agree with... But I fully understand your wishful thinking
<
 

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