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Of course whatever the case the marshals have been wrong since they left Stoner (and Sic) alone.
I respect your opinion, but here it's not a case of resentment over past episodes (even our American friends seem to have now forgiven Pedrosa for his 2006 torpedo on Hayden, memories are short...) it's a case of wanting your guy to win the title.
Fact is, Stoner arrived at Jerez as the big favorite to take the title from Lorenzo, and left in a different position. Many read the marshals episode as: "they did not help Stoner because they were too eager to help Rossi" but it can be seen also be read as "they all went to Rossi because none of them wanted to help Stoner".
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Jum if the marshals job is to get the bikes and riders out of harms way then leaving Stoner sitting there on his own whilst they pat Rossi on the back and then run off is hardly doing their job. If another accident had of occurred then Rossi would have been long gone whilst stoner got cleaned up.
The whole incident is unjust and it pisses me off to continue to hear "racing incident". Sure it was an incident in a race but when does the FIM draw the line? If a rider makes a habit of creating these "racing incidents" when does everyone say enough is enough and the rider needs to be pulled back into line?
One thing I will say against Stoner is that it was foolish to hit the kill switch on his bike immediately as he did. I suggest it was an over reaction. I understand that these guys are so worried about engine life/damage with the silly engine rules but his first thought should have been to get the bike up whilst it is running and get back in the race. I have no doubt that he is getting instructions from Honda on this very subject.
The whole incident is unjust and it pisses me off to continue to hear "racing incident". Sure it was an incident in a race but when does the FIM draw the line? If a rider makes a habit of creating these "racing incidents" when does everyone say enough is enough and the rider needs to be pulled back into line?
One thing I will say against Stoner is that it was foolish to hit the kill switch on his bike immediately as he did. I suggest it was an over reaction. I understand that these guys are so worried about engine life/damage with the silly engine rules but his first thought should have been to get the bike up whilst it is running and get back in the race. I have no doubt that he is getting instructions from Honda on this very subject.
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Perhaps there should be a blanket rule that if your actions cause a rider to fall and be unable to continue then an automatic ride through penalty is issued. This would certainly change the attitude of some riders making the pass. I will say though that a great majority of the riders show the utmost respect for their fellow competitors by racing hard but fair. It seems though that in Italy this is not an attitude that is fostered from an early age.
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That would be counter-productive as it would discourage riders from even trying to 'attempt' a pass for fear of a drive through penalty.
Wow! Damn I feel sorry for Marco. He deffentely needed more of a push. Looks like stoner did get attention. Looks like the marshals thought since both bikes were upright there was nothing else to do. I mean the whole damn thing happened within a few seconds. I can see where some might think stoner didnt get attention. Most started with Rossi but a few seconds later they were all over Stoner.
MA, his would never work and it could well lead to cases where riders play it up a little as well at certain times of the season.
For my way of thinking (and yes, it hurts to think at my age) if Race Control deem the cause of the incident to be negligent, reckless, careless or dangerous then they have the rules already in place to make set sanctions ranging from fins, loss of points to exclusions. The point here being that rules exist now for sanctions in any/all on track incidents should Race Control (via the stewards) determine just cause.
In this case I suggest that they investigated and found none.
Gaz
J4rnO- I'm not at all saying this is a case of resentment for past episodes, just using it as en example as to the mass following Rossi has in Spain. And i'm not at all saying the marshals were trying to help Lorenzo by not helping Stoner. In Jerez, and throughout Spain, ROSSI is much more "our guy" than Lorenzo is. Hope it's clear for ya!
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So you obviously have raced in Italy to know that -- I wonder if we ever met at some track?
Arrabbiata1
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When this unfortunate event transpired - once I had arrested the stream of expletives, I turned to Austin and said simply - imagine if this had been the other way round.
I would say that 99% of members on here defending Valentino, (some of those astonishingly suggesting that Casey was somehow at fault), would be completely reversing their arguments had Casey still on a dubiously handling Ducati pulled the same move on Valentino.
Imagine he had then having received apparently preferential treatment by the marshals and finished fifth largely by default in a race of attrition following Rossi gesticulating on trackside, and subsequently skulked into Vale's garage still helmeted up with full audience of sycophants + conveniently deployed camera crew in tow. Following this Vale had quipped 'how's the lactose intolerance? OK?' 'your ambition outweighed your talent' the outrage on this forum would have turned in an instant from vilification to edification amongst the Rossi faithful and more scripture would have etched for eternity in tablets of stone for the faithful flock to venerate - a million forum members signatures forged in a second.
Rossi loves to remove his helmet whenever attention is on him to leer inanely at the camera or during his post race antics. I've NEVER seen a rider approach a fellow rider in his garage to apologise with their lid on.
I have increasingly found Valentino insincere, which is a shame, because he has such a love and respect for the pedigree for this sport. (That said I found the 'Sorry Mike' banner at PI more self aggrandising than reverential). That effectively sums the guy up - self aggrandisement, you either buy into that and with it the swollen image rights or you buy into a love of the sport itself. The moment Rossi became bigger than the sport it became unhealthy.
Despite this, I'm neutral, but to those of you who do favour Rossi, be honest and introspective, picture it..hypothetically how would you have viewed events had they been the other way around? Would you have vociferously denounced Valentino and defended Casey?
I would say that 99% of members on here defending Valentino, (some of those astonishingly suggesting that Casey was somehow at fault), would be completely reversing their arguments had Casey still on a dubiously handling Ducati pulled the same move on Valentino.
Imagine he had then having received apparently preferential treatment by the marshals and finished fifth largely by default in a race of attrition following Rossi gesticulating on trackside, and subsequently skulked into Vale's garage still helmeted up with full audience of sycophants + conveniently deployed camera crew in tow. Following this Vale had quipped 'how's the lactose intolerance? OK?' 'your ambition outweighed your talent' the outrage on this forum would have turned in an instant from vilification to edification amongst the Rossi faithful and more scripture would have etched for eternity in tablets of stone for the faithful flock to venerate - a million forum members signatures forged in a second.
Rossi loves to remove his helmet whenever attention is on him to leer inanely at the camera or during his post race antics. I've NEVER seen a rider approach a fellow rider in his garage to apologise with their lid on.
I have increasingly found Valentino insincere, which is a shame, because he has such a love and respect for the pedigree for this sport. (That said I found the 'Sorry Mike' banner at PI more self aggrandising than reverential). That effectively sums the guy up - self aggrandisement, you either buy into that and with it the swollen image rights or you buy into a love of the sport itself. The moment Rossi became bigger than the sport it became unhealthy.
Despite this, I'm neutral, but to those of you who do favour Rossi, be honest and introspective, picture it..hypothetically how would you have viewed events had they been the other way around? Would you have vociferously denounced Valentino and defended Casey?
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The problem is Gaz that the rules exist but are used dependent on who is involved i.e. politically motivated. A blanket rule would mean that there is no room for politics or favouritism to become involved.
So you obviously have raced in Italy to know that -- I wonder if we ever met at some track?
Unfortunately no but my use of the word 'seems' I think lends itself to me offering an opinion which I thought is what we all do here. My inference was that the 2 italians who run at the front #46 & #58 seem to have little respect for their fellow riders when they are putting a pass on them. As opposed to the Spanish, Americans, English, Japanese and Australians who all seems to be able to race hard, close and fair without putting their fellow competitiors at risk.
Just beautifully put, superb post.
I quote it, just in case some 'boppers' managed to skip over it, in hope that they may learn something.
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Austin
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Yes? You raced in Spain too? Are you sure they are so kind? (They are not).
But there is a why.
Spain and Italy are the most competitive places where one can race a bike at junior/semi-pro levels. The level of the competition in these two countries is very high. (Sadly for us, I must say, Spain is now the most competitive place of the two). The riders who grow here are used to a level of contact and scrap while racing that may seem excessive to others, who are not used to the same level of competition. But there are not so many accidents. The riders are good. Those who arrive at the GP level come out of a very tough selection.
Before criticizing champions like that, you should try yourself, even only for fun, even minibikes. Then you'll begin to realize how good these riders are and will not write any such bullshite any more
Agreed totallay MA and have seen it happen personally at club and national level where the rules for some are not applied to others.
It is a sad indictment of power versus impartiality and (to be fair to many officials here) the problem is not necessarily that an official does not report or does not want to act, it is that they are 'discouraged' or 'ignored' (personal experience at national level).
Gaz
Arrab, as usual you provide superb well reasoned and thought input put eloquently - you hater you
As an aside and this is purely from memory, didn't VR also have his gloves on (as well as the helmet) during the 'apology'?
Asking as for some reason that sticks in my head as well - the gloved hands.
Gaz
