Faces of 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mike @ Jan 6 2007, 05:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>did you acctually see the part where i say i wouldn't have anything with capirossi, melandri or pedrosa win it... i sayed nicky WON but won in a dull way for me... i respect him but i dislike him...

So you think Nicky won the world title in a dull way Mike?

I reckon 2006 was one of most exciting, nailbiting and unpredictable seasons I can recall, it had everything. You seem to dismiss any part Nicky paid in that. So he didn't win many, but he was always in the mix, and most of the time sideways. Far from winning it in a dull way, he won it in a spectacular, cliffhanger, whodunnit thriller!!!! You could not have made it up!

It's not all about winning. I'll tell you a little story. I did a painting for Sir Stirling Moss, and asked him for the subject what he considered his finest ever race. I was suprised to hear it was a 2nd place, at the 1959 British Grand Prix. He was driving the heavy front engine BRM, Jack Brabham and Bruce McLaren were driving the new lightweight rear engine Coopers. It was wet, and Stirling managed to get ahead of Bruce at the start. Jack went on for an easy win, but in the rain Stirling held Bruce at bay for the whole Grand Prix, beating him by 0.2 seconds at the flag. Stirling's own opinion on his finest performance, is by the statistics a 'recorded' distant 2nd place.


Now 2005,....that really was dull and predictable in comparison, although mighty for Valentino.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 6 2007, 05:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Mike. I must say, I like you already. Usually it takes at least a few exchanges for me to warm up to somebody. Even though I disagree with most all your points of opinion; you came back with a fairly good post and backed it up with some stats, and I appreciate that. But like I said, I disagree with you. But you gotta expect when you say something as lame as you said in your first post, might get someone pissed (here in the US, pissed means angry not drunk); so you must have known you would get such a response. So, I think you did it on purpose, so I still think you are a “nutter” <not the fake kind.

Anyway, I understand English isn’t you first language, actually, it’s not mine either (but I don’t expect you to learn Spanish to have a proper conversation, as you say). So thanks for making the extra effort to respond. So you spit out some career stats to make your case. Actually, I think a few threads already argued this point and so I really don’t want to rehash every single argument, but I will just address a few things you said. But let it suffice to say that one can argue justify or defend these stats for and against. I could just as give you a reason as to why I think Rossi’s stats are “inflated” (that means overrated). For example, look at the stats: Kevin Schwants only won 1 championship, yet he was perhaps the most successful non-multiple champion of his era, and sometimes won more races in a season than the champion of that year. In fact, the year he won his championship, Wayne Rainey crashed and was paralyzed, so would you say Schwants isn’t a “true” champion. If you did, it would be rather disrespectful and that’s what you said about Hayden. Randy Mamola never won a championship yet has the most wins of any non-champ. Just as I could make a case that certain riders were the “true” champions, I suppose I could make a case that they were “not the true” champions. But your reasoning was so repulsive to me, especially being a Hayden fan, that I had to respond. Now when I say Rossi’s stats are “inflated” compared to Hayden, you must remember, Hayden didn’t grow up on the tracks that people like Rossi, Melandri, Loris, and Pestdrosa did. (Did you know that Italy and Spain have hosted more Gps than most of the world combined?) So like I said, I don’t want to get too much into it, but I see it obviously different than you.

Not I’m not making a case that Rossi isn’t a “true” champ. I admire Rossi but certainly don’t worship him. But let there be no doubt, Rossi will be always considered one of the greatest riders ever; and he deserves it. But it seems to me that you perceive how Hayden performed based on how it correlated with Rossi. In other words, it’s all about Rossi for you and you only see it based on how he was affected by other’s performances. Now you did say, you would have been ok if other Europeans won the championship. But the fact is that when these other guys were not scoring as many points or DNFing, Hayden was on the podium. So I really think it just comes down to you not liking Hayden, as you said, it’s a “simple” reason.

You describe Hayden’s performances as “dull” and “safe” or “it's just the” bringback home and take no risk" syndrome I hate…” Perhaps this argument is the one I dislike the most about what you think. Let me ask you, are Loris, Melandri, Pestdrosa, boring, non-risk takers, dull, and safe when they are not winning? Don’t you think these guys are trying to win even when they don’t? So what makes you think Hayden isn’t putting it all out on the track to win too? What the hell does “dull” mean? Does Hayden not back it into curves in that great American style learned on dirt tracks? Does he not do hard passes on front-runners to gain positions? (After all, some said that it was his hard pass on Pestdrosa that infuriated him to take out Hayden the next lap). You say he is “safe”. If you mean safe to mean prudent, I agree. But so are Melandri & Loris (I don’t think Pestdrosa is very prudent). You said this:> “That's why I said I dislike nicky because he won … because he won it in a dull way .. by being safe and just bring home the bike.” Do you mean the last race or do you mean the whole season? Either way, it’s your lame opinion, but its wrong.

Here is a real one

(BTW: I love Romania.)
you tell him!
He must really hate Tony Elias,...."All year nothing, then wham, robs Vale of the title in broad daylight"........life's not fair.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 6 2007, 09:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I reckon 2006 was one of most exciting, nailbiting and unpredictable seasons I can recall, it had everything. You seem to dismiss any part Nicky paid in that. So he didn't win many, but he was always in the mix, and most of the time sideways. Far from winning it in a dull way, he won it in a spectacular, cliffhanger, whodunnit thriller!!!! You could not have made it up!

I would say "Hollywood ending".....and the good guy wins

Wow, somebody finally gets it. Cool Burky. I see you have the British/English/Great Britain/British Isles.....etc flag up. I've made a few freinds from there since I joined this fite, oops, I meant site I suspect Mike will become my friend/buddy/pal/compadre soon too.

Hang on in there Mike, I think I have a comparison which will help you understand, and maybe allow you to enjoy moto GP much more this year.

OK, it's the Wimbledon mens' tennis final.

A young John McEnroe has struggled his way through to the final, whilst his seasoned opponent and ladies' favourite Ille Nastase has blitzed his way there, hardly losing a set in all previous matches.

Nastase is the strong favourite, but in the first set the young American is relentless in pursuit of every ball. Caught out by the immediate pace of our champ, he struggled at first, but rallied to draw level at 4-4. Encouraged, he battled on and suprised himself when Nastase miss times a cross court pass at break point on his own serve. All he had to do was hold his serve, he kept his composure as he took the first set 6-4.

McEnroe was going wild. The youngsters in the crowd loved it, the old ladies hated it! But what did they know, they were only there for the strawberries! What did they know about the old dirt courts and wooden bats and balls McEnroe was using just a few years ago. He could get top spin there, so Wimbledon had never seen top spin like it!

Into the second set. With half the crowd behind him and a new found belief that he could 'actually do it', McEnroe crowded his opponent, kept his nerve, and forced our Champion into a few uncharacteristic mistakes. It was only a few, but it was enough for him to move further ahead on a thrilling tie break 7-6. The youngsters and the also rans were going crazy, whist the old ladies went for cream.

Start of the third. McEnroe was buzzing, stern faced, staring at the turf, prowling the court whilst Nastase was still cool, outwardly relaxed and smiling at the ladies! Just one good push in this set could seal the Silverware for the youngster, not to mention the biggest pay day of his life. He started to get flustered as our Champ remained seemingly cool and outrageously fast. McEnroe was still chasing every ball, but many were slipping by. He was trying to emulate his rival's composure, but cracks were starting to show, and he knew it. A couple of warnings from the referee, the crowd still divided, McEnroe went down 6-1.

The crowd started set 4, whooping it up as the the players took to their feet. However, the youngsters were soon silenced as our Champ romped into a 4 game lead. McEnroe had forgotten his temper and drifted into tantrums, doubting his equipment and asking his manager to go get his old wooden bat from the changing rooms and look after his trainers. Somewhat dejected and resigned to it going to the final set, McEnroe relaxed and held his serve, albeit losing this set 6-1 also. The old ladies cheered and gloated on their strawberries and cream, wearing silly hats to shade them from the....'sunshine'! The home made 'Ille' banners were waving high.

Set 5. You can tell our Champ is serious now. The smiles have gone, he's back in business and on a roll. The change of attitude relaxes McEnroe, he knows his opponent is taking him seriously and puts his trainers back on. 1-1, 2-2,.. they're not flying by so fast or so often now for our challenger. 3-3, 4-4, 5-5. Nastase has the serve, but McEnroe is keeping up with him. He'd rather make a break than go to the tie-breaker, whilst his nerve was holding. He presses Nastase's serve, Nastase overhits a lob, and McEnroe has break point. Impatient on the baseline, he returns serve with a marvel of a winner, just clipping the line.

"OUT!"

What!!! You can't be serious! There was chalk dust!!!!!!

He was there, that was all he had to do and hold his serve! He'd been robbed by some daft robot in a silly costume! McEnroe just exploded, screaming out his anguish, and Nastase took full advantage to take the game. 6-5 Nastase.

Our Champ is holding his serve and just needs to put the pressure on to take the title, but his luck runs out when a net caught ball trickles along the top of the net, then incredibly falls back into his side of the court at match point. How much will our Champ regret that later? He smiles still, but you can cut the atmosphere with a knife as the game goes into a tie breaker.

McEnroe holds his serve, Nastase holds 2 of his own. McEnroe matches him with probably 2 of his best serves of the match. Unbelievably Nastase double faults. The crowd are in uproar, some are crying. Nastase needs this, but folds under the pressure of his opponent who is yards inside the base line, and double faults again! McEnroe knows his opponent has cracked, and fires in a couple more safe and solid serves to take his glorious first Championship.

stats....sets....3-2 McEnroe
games.....28-22 Nastase


I have 3 questions....
a) Who won?
b )Was it a dull match?
c) Do you like John McEnroe?

Important Note 1
My Mum loves Ille Nastase, and so do I.

Important Note 2
I used to 'dislike' John McEnroe when I was young, like my Mum.

Important Note 3
I now like John McEnroe, but my Mum doesn't.

I keep saying, "Move on Mum, move on", but she won't you know.

I hope this helps.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 6 2007, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hang on in there Mike, I think I have a comparison which will help you understand, and maybe allow you to enjoy moto GP much more this year.


his opponent has cracked, and fires in a couple more safe and solid serves to take his glorious first Championship.



stats....sets....3-2 McEnroe
games.....28-22 Nastase
I have 3 questions....
a) Who won?
b )Was it a dull match?
c) Do you like John McEnroe?

Wow, man! What a great match! Do you have it on tape, I want to watch that right now. (I know nothing about tennis, but you just made me a tennis fan, and moreover, a McEnroe fan).

But I wonder if Mike will appreciate it? I wonder...


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 6 2007, 11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>his opponent has cracked...



to take his glorious first Championship.

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. It was great!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 6 2007, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow, man! What a great match! Do you have it on tape, I want to watch that right now. (I know nothing about tennis, but you just made me a tennis fan, and moreover, a McEnroe fan).

But I wonder if Mike will appreciate it? I wonder...
John McEnroe was the best,i used to love watching him (probably for the wrong reasons tho )

answer the question jerk...you cannot be serious man

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 6 2007, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow, man! What a great match! Do you have it on tape, I want to watch that right now. (I know nothing about tennis, but you just made me a tennis fan, and moreover, a McEnroe fan).

But I wonder if Mike will appreciate it? I wonder...
Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. It was great!
.. great ..i do appreciate burky the tennis comparation...

1. I didn't say it was a dull/boring championship.... it was a fantastic one. But if i take only hayden as a single rider... he didn't impress me .. not even at laguna seca... maybe more at mugello or german gp...

2. I have the right to an opinion... even though you consider it wrong... you say pedrosa isn't a safe rider you called pestdrosa... what is this ...? do you like pedrosa ... was only one inccident so you haven't got too many arguments to say that.

3. Capirossi and melandri do fight for victory ... mugello, sepang, remember? didn't saw that stuff from hayden as far as i remember or even in estoril .. elias/krjr and rossi

4. I don't hate/dislike elias... i acctually like his style and i also like krjr and the suzuki riders

5.i do have that match on tape.. and i love McEnroe he was great...

p.s. do you like Roger federer?



2006 is over now.. maybe i was wrong to post like this... so i''m sorry if i offended any hayden fan with my statement... ROSSI DID NOT WIN THE TITLE HAYDEN DID ...happy now?
really, now i want to end this silly debate .. the answers will be given next season... hayden has a point to prove i'm wrong and win it again ...

EDIT: I have all nastase match's on tape.. or at least i think i have them ... and i can't remember that this was a wimbledon final.. are sure wasn't early in the tournament? or were u referinf to the final in72' with smith? ....

just saw your questions ...dunno for sure who'd won ... i wasn't born then, just saw nastase's matches on tapes ... and tv programs so i don't know the score... i can say u the results of pavel if u want though.. anyway nastase i watched live just on an demo match with Bahrami. U made me curious i'll go search if i have the particular game on tape ... who won?...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mike @ Jan 6 2007, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>.. great ..i do appreciate burky the tennis comparation...

5.i do have that match on tape.. and i love McEnroe he was great...

I have all nastase match's on tape.. or at least i think i have them ... and i can't remember that this was a wimbledon final.. are sure wasn't early in the tournament? or were u referinf to the final in72' with smith? ....

just saw your questions ...dunno for sure who'd won ... i wasn't born then, just saw nastase's matches on tapes ... and tv programs so i don't know the score

U made me curious i'll go search if i have the particular game on tape ... who won?...

Simply superb,..... go google video search it Mike, it was a corker!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 7 2007, 12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Simply superb,..... go google video search it Mike, it was a corker!


the match u said rememberd me of the wimbledon final with smith though or do you know it or i shold write you an essey on it...

... and we have the vid collection ... he's not kidding there mate/budy how you like it .. want me to mail it to you


go watch it ... or google it if u want remember it was in 72 wimbledon

Cheers

Chaps, calm down, I made it up!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 7 2007, 01:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Chaps, calm down, I made it up!
though is so similar to that final even the scores ..
are similar......

are u sure you didn't see it ?



p.s. you were very beliveble... i was going to search/or ask dad about that game ... lucky mike told me before i made a fool of myself

jumkie .. are u still a McEnroe fan?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Jan 6 2007, 11:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>though is so similar to that final even the scores ..
are similar......

are u sure you didn't see it ?
p.s. you were very beliveble... i was going to search/or ask dad about that game ... lucky mike told me before i made a fool of myself

Yep, I made it all up, even the bit about McEnroe wanting his old wooden bat back.

So, men, is Nicky Hayden a true World Champion?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 7 2007, 01:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep, I made it all up, even the bit about McEnroe wanting his old wooden bat back.

So, men, is Nicky Hayden a true World Champion?
you're amazing .. plenty of stuff matches...there

about the question . ..i rather don't post it i allready had an arguemnt with jumkie about this ...
plus i guess this debate should end ... it's offtopic now

you had me with the tennis stuff


p.s. i'm a girl

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Jan 6 2007, 11:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>p.s. i'm a girl

Sorry

Valentino has had a mighty carreer, but all good things must come to an end. He may well have another title or two in him, but very much like Michael Schumacher in F1, he may be unbeatable on his day but he has the youngsters challenging him. Has he not won it all? Is he not looking for another challenge?

Nicky fought for every point and is a deserved World Champ, and those scraps further down the order when he made crucial passes late on in races proved decisive in the final points tally. Watch him closely this year, even if he's down in 8th, he'll still be sideways and just as spectacular as he was last year. Most of all, enjoy it, and if you get the chance to go, then go for it. You'll soon have massive respect even for the guy at the back.

Now repeat after me, and Racejunkie....
"Nicky Hayden is a true World Champion"

Is it actually possible to not be a true world champion? Please give an example of when a rider has not been so. I consider it impossible but would like to hear other peoples ideas.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 7 2007, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Is it actually possible to not be a true world champion? Please give an example of when a rider has not been so. I consider it impossible but would like to hear other peoples ideas.
If you win it, you win it!

is everyone right to like or dislike a person... like an example ... jumkie doesn't like pedrosa ... i mean pestdrosa and rossi ...as he once said he likes capirossi but he uses loris and no capirossi because capirossi has the ROSSI word
please... also chop the nose to your buddy hayden fan/worshiper ...jumkie ( sorry jumkie.. you werea good example)

or are u just bothered by any word said against haystack

In response to the jumkie-burky-mike discussion:

I hope that's the end of it guys. Pretty much settled, and so so over. All of you were right. All of you were wrong. You've said all you've got to say, and I hope we could all move on from here in peace.

By the way, I commend the three of you, and all the members for the lively, spicy, and interesting discussions that makes this forum the best.

Cheers!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capirex @ Jan 7 2007, 01:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>is everyone right to like or dislike a person... like an example ... jumkie doesn't like pedrosa ... i mean pestdrosa and rossi ...as he once said he likes capirossi but he uses loris and no capirossi because capirossi has the ROSSI word
please... also chop the nose to your buddy hayden fan/worshiper ...jumkie ( sorry jumkie.. you werea good example)

or are u just bothered by any word said against haystack

Hi Capi, Well Mike said he disliked Hayden because he "won". So I took issue with his reasoning. Now he did also make a shot on Pedrosa too (or did you not notice?) <maybe you only notice when I make a shot on him> Anyway, like you with Pedrosa, I hyper-notice when people take a shot at "haystack" as you say. Well of course that makes sense because I'm a Hayden fan.

I sensed you were chomping at the bit to add your two cents into this thread. You beat me to the punch. I don’t want to rehash any arguments, but hey, Mike started it

Also, to correct you, I don't particularly dislike Rossi, but I do dislike people disrespecting the new champ and usually its Rossi fans making a case as to why they don't think Hayden "deserved/earned/true etc. etc." So I usually will say something about their boy Rossi to throw it back in their face. (yes, I lower myself to their level). So I'm not a Rossi fan, but don't particularly dislike him either. I certainly would not say: Rossi is not a “deserving/true” champion. (And yeah, like anything in this world, I could make a case of it if I had to). I think he is a deserving champion and has earned his rewards. I'm not too admiring on how he celebrates and flaunts his wins and sometimes I think he has taken it too far, but oh well. I must say though, some people think he can do no wrong; it’s not a coincidence that the same people that vilified Biaggi and Sete, are now vilianizing Hayden--why? because they had the audacity to challenge Rossi, and that just doesn't sit well with the Rossi worshipers. (Let me make a note here, not all Rossi fans are Rossi worshipers. The worshipers are a bunch of zombie like idiots that compare other people’s performances in relation to their boy rather than considering others performances for what they have accomplished). In other words, there are plenty of Rossi fans that can handle when others win and do well and it not bother them simply because Rossi go beat on any particular day or season; many are on this site and others, and I’ve learned to distinguish them and for the most part have become friends).

So to answer your question directly, yes, I take issue when people talk .... about Hayden. (Especially when they say something super lame and stupid to back up what they say).

A joke is a joke, and I’m a fairly humor loving guy, so I can trade jokes about “haystack” and give them out like “Pestdrosa”, but this is clearly a joke. No harm no foul.

I said it before, I don’t like Pedrosa and have given my reason. But the guy is a talent no matter what. And I may learn to like him, I’ve only seen him one year, so lets see if that incident in Portugal is really a fluke as many seem to think and was not telling of his real character. I’m gonna watch him carefully next year and see if the guy has the characteristics I admire in a racer. As far as this year, I felt the guy was super fast and talented but envious, jealous, and selfish. I was very upset when he took out Hayden. Very Upset. So when you got a guy like Mike saying it was a “happy” moment for him, well hell he’s just looking for a fight. And I held back at that. Imagine that, a happy moment for a guy when a rider takes out another rider? What kinda .... is that? Come on Capi, even you don’t sink to that level as to say it’s a great day when a man takes out another man that is no less in the lead of the championship and is chasing a dream; along with a nation of Americans rooting for him? What the hell? So naturally I try to take a shot back where I think it hurts and say something like Rossi took a .... on his bike and cracked under pressure as a retaliation. Go back if you like and read my threads, and you will find that I don’t first talk crap about Rossi unless its brought up in the context of somebody disrespecting the new Champ.

And I will continue to do it, since there is a shortage of Hayden fans willing to take it to those lame enough to say Hayden is not a “true” champion.


PS. Love CapiROSSI but Pedrosa not so much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jan 7 2007, 02:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In response to the jumkie-burky-mike discussion:

I hope that's the end of it guys. Pretty much settled, and so so over.

By the way, I commend the three of you, and all the members for the lively, spicy, and interesting discussions that makes this forum the best.

Cheers!

Ooops Damn, I was was writing my post before I read yours. I probably wouldn't have wrote so much (yeah right) had I read your diplomatic post. Anyway, yeah you are right. Sorry. I just still get all crazy when... well you know. Ok I'm done here.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ Jan 7 2007, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>In response to the jumkie-burky-mike discussion:

I hope that's the end of it guys. Pretty much settled, and so so over. All of you were right. All of you were wrong. You've said all you've got to say, and I hope we could all move on from here in peace.

By the way, I commend the three of you, and all the members for the lively, spicy, and interesting discussions that makes this forum the best.

Cheers!

Oh be a love, I was enjoying myself!!!! I trust you enjoyed the Hayden v Rossi tennis!!!!

On a serious note, I agree with you. I'm reasonably new here, but I am enjoying the forum because it is very much like real life. Youngsters are having their first interactions with adults in the outside world, and indeed us oldies are being reminded of the joys of being young.

Although they don't like us now, I believe me and my US counterpart jumkie have taken our Romanian friends under our wings, and will try to guide them in the right directions in life!!! A happy balance between passion and prudence!

Just something that made me laugh.......
We have phrases teenagers use to show their distaste.
In the UK at the moment, perhaps it's........ "face, bovered!"
In the US, maybe .........."don't have a cow man!"
In Romania is it ......"....don't write an essay!"?

love and peace,
Burky.