Estoril Qualifying

Wow Stoner is so "dropped"!!!

I'm backing my mate .... all the way now!!





ok its getting beyond funny now ..... something real odd going n with the Duc.s after Qatar ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>...................

Now do you think that my original question which was along the lines of: "do you think that Bridgestones are developing the tyres for one rider", was a simple rant that should be blown off so flippently as you have done?

Maybe you should take into account the time required to develop dedicated tyres for one rider/bike combination specifically. It took two years for Ducati and Bridgestone to become a well-knit package, which only casually happened to suit Stoner in 2007 perfectly as it hadn't been developed with of for him! Reality is (fortunately) a much more random affair than conspiracy theories would have it

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frizzle @ Apr 12 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I doubt it's a tyre problem Ducati is dealing with at the moment.
Might be worth while doing a Honda at the next test and bringing a GP7 along for comparison.
Jerez and Estoril were not strong Ducati circuits last season so it's still early days, but this years bike certainly seems harder to ride from the video's i've seen so far.
Looks again like a Michelin track to me with Vale perhaps throwing a spanner in the Michelin band wagon. How high he can get I'm not too sure because Michelin will dominate the front row or two.
Would be brilliant to see Colin win his first race but if he can't hopefully Nicky can. Facing up to facts though I think Pedrosa will be real hard to beat again with Lorenzo pushing him for it.

And Rossi will be there. He was topping the timesheets in the fp sessions this weekend more than he has usually done the last couple of years.
Unless Stoner finds a solution to his problems it looks like Hayden and Edwards are going to take his place and fight for the top positions.
A factor to count in is the temperature. The conditions were more like quatar with only 15 deg in the ground. This afternoons QP might show a different result on race tires, but I expect Michelin riders to dominate the result.
Tomorrow is anybodys guess if we gets showers. it will be a gamble in when to switch bikes but Bridgestone are very stong in those damp conditions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2008, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe you should take into account the time required to develop dedicated tyres for one rider/bike combination specifically. It took two years for Ducati and Bridgestone to become a well-knit package, which only casually happened to suit Stoner in 2007 perfectly as it hadn't been developed with of for him! Reality is (fortunately) a much more random affair than conspiracy theories would have it

+1

Why use the term conspiracy theory?

I guess that looking at the business decisions behind what happens on track is too difficult and it is just easier to banter about blah blah blah or call what I think is a worth while and very realistic topic a conspiracy theory. After all no corporate decisions influence the many millions of dollars that is spent to go racing.

Perhaps I should have started a thread on it. So maybe it is my mistake for trying to discuss in the wrong place.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why use the term conspiracy theory?

I guess that looking at the business decisions behind what happens on track is too difficult and it is just easier to banter about blah blah blah or call what I think is a worth while and very realistic topic a conspiracy theory. After all no corporate decisions influence the many millions of dollars that is spent to go racing.

Perhaps I should have started a thread on it. So maybe it is my mistake for trying to discuss in the wrong place.

I think your are simply trying to find an explanation to Stoner's problems. As someone else has pointed out, they are not coming from the tyres, but much more from the Ducati.

Ducati have a big problem this year IMHO - which could also be worth a separate thread - and it is that after hitting it big time in 2007 with the GP7-BS-Stoner package, they have lost their chief developer (Capirossi) without replacing him with another rider capable to develop a bike.

Stoner is the greatest when it comes to opening the throttle and riding it hard, but can he develop a bike? Nope. Melandri? No hope. They need someone who give good directions for the development. They need it badly.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Why use the term conspiracy theory?

I guess that looking at the business decisions behind what happens on track is too difficult and it is just easier to banter about blah blah blah or call what I think is a worth while and very realistic topic a conspiracy theory. After all no corporate decisions influence the many millions of dollars that is spent to go racing.

Perhaps I should have started a thread on it. So maybe it is my mistake for trying to discuss in the wrong place.

Do U use that wingning argument every time you start a discussion?

You come with some rather controversial suggestions so if you want to discuss, expect some resistanse.

I strongly doubt Bridgestone has had any serious evaluation of Rossi loosing out to Lorenzo. What make you think so. Why waste time on an ulikely event (allthough it might look slightly more likely now)
You seem to come up with this based on Quatar but Bridgestone are far to serious to start a long evaluation based on one race. Besides their business plans for this year are probaly set in '07, not in April based on one race.
Now back to your first question, are Bridgestone developing tires for one rider. Well first of all, what rider are we talking about? You get offended if someone suggest you say they are developing for Rossi, and still Ducati are going backwards so to suggest anyone else seems strange.
Well, there is no big secret there. Bridgestone has technishinas at every team them work with. They all bring back feedback. That feedback are evaluated and turned into new tires. That's how it works for both Michelin and Bridgestone. There could be a question regarding who they listen to the most and regarding special requests requireing a complete new tire, but none of those can be translated into your suggestion. The answere is no! There is no way they would start developing spesific tires for spesific riders. They may trust one or two so much that they design a tire almost entirely beased on that riders input and request but it would be in the hope that it can gain most of the riders. Even if they did that they would most certainly continue to develop the exisiting line so I don't see the problem. I.e. Do you see any complications in the unlikely event that they would design a tire for one rider? I hope you are not suggesting that they don't develop other tires in parallell.

BTW. If you want straight replys come out with your opninis, not disguised questions and then complain about the replys you get.

Now Shut Up, the QP just started on tv

I thought I stated my opinion and asked what others think. The response I got was weak and inflamatry and did not even achknowledge the bulk of the questions.

Generally conversation is made up of a series of questions and responses. If one of the responses addressed the questions and gave a well thought out answer to the question then a serious dialogue could have followed. But answering a question with "conspiracy theory" is just plain weak and requires no thought.

You suggest a question about who they would listen to more would be a good question. Well did you not read my posts?

The fact that you can't achknowledge that business decisions are made before and during a season is astounding. To suggest that no one sat down and looked at all the contigencies and then looked at ways of mitigating against risk is below you Babel.

Here is my opinion loud and clear:

One of BS's risks that they would have identified before the season and during the season so far would be Rossi being beaten by Yamaha's on Michelins. In order for this not to happen they would have come up with a strategy. I believe that strategy is to develop tyres that Rossi wants rather than give him JUST tyres that everyone has access to. My opinion is that with the millions of dollars that they have to spend on winning the MotoGP title they would be already delivering tyres that have specific inclusions requested by Rossi.

Oh and by the way. Do you guys have to rub it in that you can watch QP on TV. We get the race only!!!!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J4rn0 @ Apr 12 2008, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think your are simply trying to find an explanation to Stoner's problems. As someone else has pointed out, they are not coming from the tyres, but much more from the Ducati.

Ducati have a big problem this year IMHO - which could also be worth a separate thread - and it is that after hitting it big time in 2007 with the GP7-BS-Stoner package, they have lost their chief developer (Capirossi) without replacing him with another rider capable to develop a bike.

Stoner is the greatest when it comes to opening the throttle and riding it hard, but can he develop a bike? Nope. Melandri? No hope. They need someone who give good directions for the development. They need it badly.
Hard to argue with this. That ducati have taken a wrong direction, or no direction, in development seems quite plausible to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 12 2008, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hard to argue with this. That ducati have taken a wrong direction, or no direction, in development seems quite plausible to me.

They just talked about the track conditions and about how bumpy it is. How is Jerez in that regard?
Would make sense that Yamaha do well at bumpy tracks as their chassi seems to be very good while Ducati strugle?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh and by the way. Do you guys have to rub it in that you can watch QP on TV. We get the race only!!!!!!!!!

That's part of what makes life worth living

alot has to do with also that ducati had a huge advantage last year and i dont care what anyone says... even suppo is starting to admit it.


but im sure stoner will be back running at the front when he finds a workable setup...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Here is my opinion loud and clear:

One of BS's risks that they would have identified before the season and during the season so far would be Rossi being beaten by Yamaha's on Michelins. In order for this not to happen they would have come up with a strategy. I believe that strategy is to develop tyres that Rossi wants rather than give him JUST tyres that everyone has access to. My opinion is that with the millions of dollars that they have to spend on winning the MotoGP title they would be already delivering tyres that have specific inclusions requested by Rossi.

If I've read the reports right Rossi were still testing out the different existing tires almost up to the start at Quatar. Only then they gave some constructive feedback on each tire. There is no way they've made a new tire up to now. And make now mistake, BS are trying to adapt tires to everyone. I saw an interview where they talked baout how different Suzuki and Ducati were an how they tried to adapt. The tires may have common properties but all these tires are "hand" buildt and can be cutomized with different compounds for each and every tire.

Consider the front Q-tires:
It was rumored that Rossi required this this year but in truth BS have been developing it since last year. In outher words, Rossi's statement was more of an expecataions of what to come, not to require or ask for anything as it is allready underway.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jazkat @ Apr 12 2008, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>alot has to do with also that ducati had a huge advantage last year and i dont care what anyone says... even suppo is starting to admit it.

Where did you see that??

I often thought Suppo was borderline treasonous to Ducati ....

Rossi and Pedrosa on a race pace < 1.38. Both with best time at 37.5
Edwards, toesland and capirossi follws. CS on 12th.

Stoner is having problems with the front end. And that means he's going nowhere this weekend.

Just watched Stoner pushing it now and they have HUGE problems making the bike work out of the corners. The rear bounces around and that's NOT a tire problem but a chassi problem.
And if that wasn't enough he mase a mistake into turn one just avoiding the gravel.

ALL michelins among the 8 best. Only 1 Bridgestone.

How ....... good at qualifying is Lorenzo?