Estoril Qualifying

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 11 2008, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>the top 4 are all less than 2/10ths off... hardly running away with it.
Not exactly running air valves either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think all u spies fans are puttin way to much faith in his ability to do well in gps. sorry to say but i think you guys are setting yourselves up for a big dissapointment.
Hope. (Have you heard of it?)

Anyway, nice to see Hayden up there but I'm not exactly betting the farm. But I do have HOPE!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Apr 11 2008, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think all u spies fans are puttin way to much faith in his ability to do well in gps. sorry to say but i think you guys are setting yourselves up for a big dissapointment.

talk all the .... you want frost...but with each .... race from CV, Spies is that much closer to replacing his mole ...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xx CURVE xx @ Apr 11 2008, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>talk all the .... you want frost...but with each .... race from CV, Spies is that much closer to replacing his mole ...

As he should! I hope Caparossi stays and CV gets the boot!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (projekZERO @ Apr 11 2008, 08:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As he should! I hope Caparossi stays and CV gets the boot!

capi is getting old.. i'd like to see him take baylliss' place..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bill88 @ Apr 11 2008, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>capi is getting old.. i'd like to see him take baylliss' place..

I second that, I would love to see Capirex in WSBK, he could be yet another "old timer" with a hell of a lot of racing left in him that can race hard and give us even more racing action in superbikes. He's put in plenty of time with Ducati, and you know how they love Italians in the saddle. I could see something like that start to take shape half way thru the season, unless he is committed to GP for another year. Anyone hear any rumors yet of what Capi is planning for next year?

What has happenned to Bridgestone? Last season they have an unfair advantage or so everyone says. This year they are back to filling the rear of the grid except for Rossi.

Have Bridgestone started developing their tyres around Rossi rather than making a tyre that suits everybody as they did last season? If you think back to Qatar, Stoner ran 2007 tyres! Why?

I understand that Honda and Yamaha have improved their bikes which is influencing the grid but all the Bridgestone guys are complaining of no front end feeling. This was never the case last year.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 11 2008, 10:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Have Bridgestone started developing their tyres around Rossi rather than making a tyre that suits everybody as they did last season?

but stoner is the champion.. if bridgestone thought about giving someone better tyres wouldn't that be their first champion?

michelin has made steps forward, but at jerez and estoril last year, rossi and dani were first and second with michelins. and at qatar, the only bridgestone runner at the podium was stoner, again.

maybe we should wait for some more races especially at many tracks out of europe to see how much michelin has improved. what i like about this season is that it seems that there is a balance among the teams, the tyres and the riders and noone has a clear advantage so far..

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What has happenned to Bridgestone? Last season they have an unfair advantage or so everyone says. This year they are back to filling the rear of the grid except for Rossi.

Have Bridgestone started developing their tyres around Rossi rather than making a tyre that suits everybody as they did last season? If you think back to Qatar, Stoner ran 2007 tyres! Why?

I understand that Honda and Yamaha have improved their bikes which is influencing the grid but all the Bridgestone guys are complaining of no front end feeling. This was never the case last year.


Bridgestone last year suited everybody?! This is news. Stoner was first most of the times, but most of times the 2nd and 3rd (etc...) were Michelins. So it was at the end of the championship, Stoner was the lonely Bridgestone rider at the top. I would say Stoner was making the best of the Stones. Likewise, we should allow the possibility that a rider like Rossi can exploit the Bridgestone as well, and sometimes even better, than Stoner. No conspiracy theory needed.

I seem to recall that Rossi switched to BS because it was the dominate tyre. I also recall alot of people saying that Stoner only won because of the BS. I also recall many comments about Suzuki's and Kawasaki's running closer to the front than ususal and this being put down to BS's. I am very surprised that you have forgoted these comments as they were all that was talked about it seems.

But this was not my point. My point was that BS last year was a good tyre for all, gave a lot of front end confidence and wasn't developed around one rider. This is why they were better than Michelin last year who traditional have developed their tyres around a small number of riders.

My point also extends to: I hope they haven't begun to develop the tyre around one rider at the detriment to all the others and therefore narrow the performance parameters of the tyre. I agree with Bill88 that it is perhaps too early to tell but at this stage BS tyres do not seem to have the performance that all their riders are able to exploit like last season.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I seem to recall that Rossi switched to BS because it was the dominate tyre. I also recall alot of people saying that Stoner only won because of the BS. I also recall many comments about Suzuki's and Kawasaki's running closer to the front than ususal and this being put down to BS's. I am very surprised that you have forgoted these comments as they were all that was talked about it seems.
Rossi wanted Bridgestones as he thought they'd suit his riding style straight out of the box better than anything Michelin were likely to come up with for him any time soon.

Stoner did not win just because of the Bridgestones and I don't recall anyone saying that. (sudden deluge of links to posts where Stoner-slaggers really were that stupid ) He won because he had belief in his package (bike + tyres) and has a lot of talent.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But this was not my point. My point was that BS last year was a good tyre for all, gave a lot of front end confidence and wasn't developed around one rider. This is why they were better than Michelin last year who traditional have developed their tyres around a small number of riders.
I agree with J4rn0 that the Bridgestones did not appear to have a huge advantage last year except for Stoner. There were some tracks like Laguna where the Michelins fell to bits for all their riders, so at those events you could say they were better overall. In general, however, the Bridgestones weren't that dominating in the race results over the Michelins.

The reason that B-Stones were considered better last year had more to do with the narrow operating range of each Michelin tyre - something which made sense with the pre-2007 Saturday night specials, but was not the way forward with the new rules. Bridgestone had been making tyres with a wide operating range for years as they tended not to be able to fly in tyres cooked overnight for the actual conditions. As Michelin chose not to raise their game (to the extent of cutting their budget ), they suffered in 2007.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 11 2008, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point also extends to: I hope they haven't begun to develop the tyre around one rider at the detriment to all the others and therefore narrow the performance parameters of the tyre. I agree with Bill88 that it is perhaps too early to tell but at this stage BS tyres do not seem to have the performance that all their riders are able to exploit like last season.
If Bridgestone were to suddenly change their spots and develop tyres around one rider, why would that rider not be Stoner who gave them their first championship?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I seem to recall that Rossi switched to BS because it was the dominate tyre. I also recall alot of people saying that Stoner only won because of the BS. I also recall many comments about Suzuki's and Kawasaki's running closer to the front than ususal and this being put down to BS's. I am very surprised that you have forgoted these comments as they were all that was talked about it seems.

But this was not my point. My point was that BS last year was a good tyre for all, gave a lot of front end confidence and wasn't developed around one rider. This is why they were better than Michelin last year who traditional have developed their tyres around a small number of riders.

My point also extends to: I hope they haven't begun to develop the tyre around one rider at the detriment to all the others and therefore narrow the performance parameters of the tyre. I agree with Bill88 that it is perhaps too early to tell but at this stage BS tyres do not seem to have the performance that all their riders are able to exploit like last season.

calm down there is no favoratism going on with BS it could just be a problem with certain tyres or the setup, why do you point the finger at rossi because he is doing ok on them???, rossi had the same problem in qatar that stoner is having here "lack of grip", vermulen had front tyre problems in qatar went into the pits they changed the front tyre and put the same spec tyre back on the bike and he said it was fine??? so maybe this issue lies with bridgstone, who knows?

i think for stoner its the setup and im sure he will be back in the top 3 tomorow.

Halfway through FP three
Hayden 1.38.29
de Puniet
Rossi
Edwards
Hopkins
Dovi
Toselan
Stoner 1.38.73
Actually the first ten is within the 38's and that make the gap only .7 for the first 10.

And then Edwards suddenly made a 37.5

The wetherinfo says it's sunny but only 15 deg in the ground.

Lorenzo has joined the top 3 and as we enter the last 10 min Ducati must be very worried. pos 10, 1, 17, 18 ....

Stoner 11th after 15 laps of running

Jazkat,
Calm down? What makes you think I am anything but calm? I don't think I have a history of getting over emotional on this forum so please don't treat my question as a rant.

Also where do you get that I am having a go at Rossi? I was talking about Bridgestone.

Give the question a bit of thought. Bridgestone are sitting in their planning meeting for 2008 and discussing the fact that they are now supplying tyres to Valentino Rossi. Do you think that perhaps they have a strategy on how they are going to use the feedback that Rossi gives them? Do you think that they considered a weighting that they would give that feedback in relation to the other teams as they would have doine last year with Ducati who I am certain they would hjave favoured to some degree?

My questions were anything but emotional. They were questions based on what business decisions and strategies Bridgestone made at the start of the season.

Consider the marketing implications of Rossi being beaten by his rookie team mate who has everything the same as Rossi except for tyres. Have you thought about that? Because I am sure that Bridgestone had many discussions about that very topic. Now weigh that issue up against Stoner and Ducati not winning in 2008 which could be the result of many different things like bike, rider, experience, confidence. Which outcome do you think will be worse for Bridgestone?

Now do you think that my original question which was along the lines of: "do you think that Bridgestones are developing the tyres for one rider", was a simple rant that should be blown off so flippently as you have done?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Now do you think that my original question which was along the lines of: "do you think that Bridgestones are developing the tyres for one rider", was a simple rant that should be blown off so flippently as you have done?

I think you ask reasonable questions, but i am under the impression that tyres developed for Rossi's feedback are yet to hit the track, and he is still using Stoner spec tyres.

And here's the result:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 08:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Jazkat,
Calm down? What makes you think I am anything but calm? I don't think I have a history of getting over emotional on this forum so please don't treat my question as a rant.

Also where do you get that I am having a go at Rossi? I was talking about Bridgestone.

Give the question a bit of thought. Bridgestone are sitting in their planning meeting for 2008 and discussing the fact that they are now supplying tyres to Valentino Rossi. Do you think that perhaps they have a strategy on how they are going to use the feedback that Rossi gives them? Do you think that they considered a weighting that they would give that feedback in relation to the other teams as they would have doine last year with Ducati who I am certain they would hjave favoured to some degree?

My questions were anything but emotional. They were questions based on what business decisions and strategies Bridgestone made at the start of the season.

Consider the marketing implications of Rossi being beaten by his rookie team mate who has everything the same as Rossi except for tyres. Have you thought about that? Because I am sure that Bridgestone had many discussions about that very topic. Now weigh that issue up against Stoner and Ducati not winning in 2008 which could be the result of many different things like bike, rider, experience, confidence. Which outcome do you think will be worse for Bridgestone?

Now do you think that my original question which was along the lines of: "do you think that Bridgestones are developing the tyres for one rider", was a simple rant that should be blown off so flippently as you have done?

I doubt it's a tyre problem Ducati is dealing with at the moment.
Might be worth while doing a Honda at the next test and bringing a GP7 along for comparison.
Jerez and Estoril were not strong Ducati circuits last season so it's still early days, but this years bike certainly seems harder to ride from the video's i've seen so far.
Looks again like a Michelin track to me with Vale perhaps throwing a spanner in the Michelin band wagon. How high he can get I'm not too sure because Michelin will dominate the front row or two.
Would be brilliant to see Colin win his first race but if he can't hopefully Nicky can. Facing up to facts though I think Pedrosa will be real hard to beat again with Lorenzo pushing him for it.

Hayden at the sharp end

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TP70 @ Apr 12 2008, 01:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I seem to recall that Rossi switched to BS because it was the dominate tyre. I also recall alot of people saying that Stoner only won because of the BS. I also recall many comments about Suzuki's and Kawasaki's running closer to the front than ususal and this being put down to BS's. I am very surprised that you have forgoted these comments as they were all that was talked about it seems.

But this was not my point. My point was that BS last year was a good tyre for all, gave a lot of front end confidence and wasn't developed around one rider. This is why they were better than Michelin last year who traditional have developed their tyres around a small number of riders.

My point also extends to: I hope they haven't begun to develop the tyre around one rider at the detriment to all the others and therefore narrow the performance parameters of the tyre. I agree with Bill88 that it is perhaps too early to tell but at this stage BS tyres do not seem to have the performance that all their riders are able to exploit like last season.

Bridgestone was the dominant tyre in 2007 - yes - but only with Stoner and Ducati. Not for all. Take out Stoner, and it wasn't dominant any more. Same for Ducati. That does not mean that Stoner is God and he wins championships on inferior equipment - Bridgestones and Ducati ARE winners of course, but they are difficult and it takes something more to exploit them well as compared to a Honda-Michelin package for example. Rossi wanted Bridgestones because he was confident he could use them like Stoner, and because his trust in Michelin was gone.