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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Jul 25 2007, 07:10 PM) [snapback]81364[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Of course not it's not like he's dominated the 250s like Stoner or indeed Westy did.........
Ahh, took a couple of seconds. Irony is a difficult thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
I think Lorenzo will probably be in a pretty strong bargaining position to choose a team too, so I think we should credit him with knowing what he is doing. He is after all, better at this game than any of us.
The game of choosing and negotiating with teams? I don't know about him but at least his management is better than any of us.
Of course not it's not like he's dominated the 250s like Stoner or indeed Westy did.........
Ahh, took a couple of seconds. Irony is a difficult thing.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
I think Lorenzo will probably be in a pretty strong bargaining position to choose a team too, so I think we should credit him with knowing what he is doing. He is after all, better at this game than any of us.
The game of choosing and negotiating with teams? I don't know about him but at least his management is better than any of us.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Jul 25 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]81393[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think he is a fantastic showman and dominates the 250s...but I have to ask...would he dominate on a Honda or KTM 250?
Why not??? Maybe not immediately, it will take time, but why not??
Also don't see it happening right away, still think other riders will have the upper hand, like Rossi, Stoner, Dani, and probably others too, cause it will be his first year, but I think, given the right equipment, he could dominate, but that's still far away imo.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Jul 25 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]81393[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't think he would...the Aprillia is helping him be as dominant as he has helped ALOT...in 2005 he raced with Honda, and got beat pretty decisively by Pedrosa...
That aint a shame if you ask me, Dani is a great rider imo, and he will get better, like Jorge also will get better, cause he got beaten back then doesnt say that much really. He will only get better I think, and he's pretty good now.
I think he is a fantastic showman and dominates the 250s...but I have to ask...would he dominate on a Honda or KTM 250?
Why not??? Maybe not immediately, it will take time, but why not??
Also don't see it happening right away, still think other riders will have the upper hand, like Rossi, Stoner, Dani, and probably others too, cause it will be his first year, but I think, given the right equipment, he could dominate, but that's still far away imo.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Jul 25 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]81393[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I don't think he would...the Aprillia is helping him be as dominant as he has helped ALOT...in 2005 he raced with Honda, and got beat pretty decisively by Pedrosa...
That aint a shame if you ask me, Dani is a great rider imo, and he will get better, like Jorge also will get better, cause he got beaten back then doesnt say that much really. He will only get better I think, and he's pretty good now.
Austin
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Jul 25 2007, 04:43 PM) [snapback]81355[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Edwards will go to Tech 3 with Michelins to make them more competative (in theory) along side James Toseland...
We'll see about that, I'm not so sure Edwards is going to stay in the show. He claims he's very interested in returning to US Superbike unless he can ride for the team he wants to in MotoGP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 25 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]81359[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The yamaha is ok now, but Jorge wont come to seriously thinking about the title until a few years time, when i expect Rossi to quit. With Rossi (and presumably JB) gone, i expect Yamaha to sink back down to a mid pack bike because quite frankly, i think they owe most of there success to JB.
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As you said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
Edwards will go to Tech 3 with Michelins to make them more competative (in theory) along side James Toseland...
We'll see about that, I'm not so sure Edwards is going to stay in the show. He claims he's very interested in returning to US Superbike unless he can ride for the team he wants to in MotoGP.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 25 2007, 04:51 PM) [snapback]81359[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The yamaha is ok now, but Jorge wont come to seriously thinking about the title until a few years time, when i expect Rossi to quit. With Rossi (and presumably JB) gone, i expect Yamaha to sink back down to a mid pack bike because quite frankly, i think they owe most of there success to JB.
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As you said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 25 2007, 10:33 PM) [snapback]81439[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As you said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
Agreed
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As you said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
Agreed
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Austin @ Jul 26 2007, 06:33 AM) [snapback]81439[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As [Tom]said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
I don't know about that. I think Burgess gets plenty of credit (from Rossi and the press), and has a fairly high profile for an engineer. How many other crew chiefs can you name off of the top of your head? For me, only Pete Benson (Hayden), Chuck Asland (spelling? Team Roberts) and Stuart Shenton (Suzuki, although I'm not sure which rider).
Certainly, Burgess has been a healthy influence on Rossi's development, but as he himself said (on the move to Yamaha): "I may have helped Valentino get up to speed more quickly, but he would have got there anyway without me."
Actually, I think that Yamaha themselves don't get enough credit for the M1's success. The popular view (not necessarily yours or Tom's) is that the 2004-2006 (and 07?) Yamahas were a pile of ..... that only the wizardry of Burgess and the brilliance of Rossi managed to transform into something that was barely rideable. It's not alchemy, people: if you work with .... you only end up with .... on your hands.
Anyway, onto Lorenzo. I think there could be two one-bike factory teams next year: Fiat Yamaha and Fortuna Yamaha. I'd be surprised if he won a race in his rookie year (he never managed that in 125s or 250s), but a podium or two is on the cards. As a number of crashes. And a controversy or two.
The Yamaha is a fine bike now but not because of Yamaha. As [Tom]said, much of the M1's success is down to JB. For that matter I think JB has played a major hand in Rossi's development and he doesn't receive the credit he should.
I don't know about that. I think Burgess gets plenty of credit (from Rossi and the press), and has a fairly high profile for an engineer. How many other crew chiefs can you name off of the top of your head? For me, only Pete Benson (Hayden), Chuck Asland (spelling? Team Roberts) and Stuart Shenton (Suzuki, although I'm not sure which rider).
Certainly, Burgess has been a healthy influence on Rossi's development, but as he himself said (on the move to Yamaha): "I may have helped Valentino get up to speed more quickly, but he would have got there anyway without me."
Actually, I think that Yamaha themselves don't get enough credit for the M1's success. The popular view (not necessarily yours or Tom's) is that the 2004-2006 (and 07?) Yamahas were a pile of ..... that only the wizardry of Burgess and the brilliance of Rossi managed to transform into something that was barely rideable. It's not alchemy, people: if you work with .... you only end up with .... on your hands.
Anyway, onto Lorenzo. I think there could be two one-bike factory teams next year: Fiat Yamaha and Fortuna Yamaha. I'd be surprised if he won a race in his rookie year (he never managed that in 125s or 250s), but a podium or two is on the cards. As a number of crashes. And a controversy or two.
Austin
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rising Sun @ Jul 26 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]81536[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Actually, I think that Yamaha themselves don't get enough credit for the M1's success. The popular view (not necessarily yours or Tom's) is that the 2004-2006 (and 07?) Yamahas were a pile of ..... that only the wizardry of Burgess and the brilliance of Rossi managed to transform into something that was barely rideable. It's not alchemy, people: if you work with .... you only end up with .... on your hands.
I wouldn't say that. My viewpoint is that the M1 was not a very good machine when Rossi inheireted it. He and JB started putting pieces together and told Yamaha what they needed and Yamaha listened and did everything which was asked of them. That's something that I feel is very commendable for a factory.
Actually, I think that Yamaha themselves don't get enough credit for the M1's success. The popular view (not necessarily yours or Tom's) is that the 2004-2006 (and 07?) Yamahas were a pile of ..... that only the wizardry of Burgess and the brilliance of Rossi managed to transform into something that was barely rideable. It's not alchemy, people: if you work with .... you only end up with .... on your hands.
I wouldn't say that. My viewpoint is that the M1 was not a very good machine when Rossi inheireted it. He and JB started putting pieces together and told Yamaha what they needed and Yamaha listened and did everything which was asked of them. That's something that I feel is very commendable for a factory.
I heard Rossi is ......... at development? He's just great at putting in the hard yards when it comes to testing and Edwards is in charge of the actual direction of the bike, hence him calling the M1 'The best bike he has ever ridden, its just the tyres that let me down'
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Jul 26 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]81553[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I heard Rossi is ......... at development? He's just great at putting in the hard yards when it comes to testing and Edwards is in charge of the actual direction of the bike, hence him calling the M1 'The best bike he has ever ridden, its just the tyres that let me down'
I've heard that rossi is unrivalled in his ability to communicate with the engineers and ..... small changes and tinty elements individualy with his bike. Edwardsa also has a good rep as a development rider, and the performance of the m1 shows it.
I heard Rossi is ......... at development? He's just great at putting in the hard yards when it comes to testing and Edwards is in charge of the actual direction of the bike, hence him calling the M1 'The best bike he has ever ridden, its just the tyres that let me down'
I've heard that rossi is unrivalled in his ability to communicate with the engineers and ..... small changes and tinty elements individualy with his bike. Edwardsa also has a good rep as a development rider, and the performance of the m1 shows it.
Just because hes fast and can communicate well doesnt make him good at development, why do you think he's kept Edwards around for so long? Not like its been Yamaha's preference..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Jul 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]81364[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Of course not it's not like he's dominated the 250s like Stoner or indeed Westy did.........
Lorenzo is a .... hot 250 rider, and I think that makes him a strong candidate for motogp.
Its pretty easy to dominate when your machinery and mechanics are literally heads and shoulders above anything that anyone else has access too..
West dominated when he had the right machinery (made Sofuoglu, a proclaimed GP star of the future, look second rate) in WSS and is holding his own well on the Kawasaki.. Sure, Lorenzo is riding very well at the moment, but it will be interesting to see how he goes in adapting to playing second fiddle to Rossi.. I doubt hes been second to receive anything (as far as parts, data, upgrades go) for a looong time..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(basspete @ Jul 26 2007, 03:10 AM) [snapback]81364[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Of course not it's not like he's dominated the 250s like Stoner or indeed Westy did.........
Lorenzo is a .... hot 250 rider, and I think that makes him a strong candidate for motogp.
Its pretty easy to dominate when your machinery and mechanics are literally heads and shoulders above anything that anyone else has access too..
West dominated when he had the right machinery (made Sofuoglu, a proclaimed GP star of the future, look second rate) in WSS and is holding his own well on the Kawasaki.. Sure, Lorenzo is riding very well at the moment, but it will be interesting to see how he goes in adapting to playing second fiddle to Rossi.. I doubt hes been second to receive anything (as far as parts, data, upgrades go) for a looong time..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Jul 27 2007, 02:08 AM) [snapback]81553[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I heard Rossi is ......... at development?
I wouldn't agree with you on this.
Have you seen the movie/doco Faster. In that Rossi's team claim he is great at identifing problems with the bike and concerntrating on what he considers to be the most important.
There is no doubt Rossi has supreme talent, and with JB behind him he has achieved many championships. Without JB, Rossi still would be great, but would he be as great as he is??
I see a racing team like a marriage, some don't workout (no matter how good one or both members of the marriage are) while some bond together and form a strong unbreakable relationship.
JB & Rossi (and the team) have bonded extremely well and this shows in the results etc.
I heard Rossi is ......... at development?
I wouldn't agree with you on this.
Have you seen the movie/doco Faster. In that Rossi's team claim he is great at identifing problems with the bike and concerntrating on what he considers to be the most important.
There is no doubt Rossi has supreme talent, and with JB behind him he has achieved many championships. Without JB, Rossi still would be great, but would he be as great as he is??
I see a racing team like a marriage, some don't workout (no matter how good one or both members of the marriage are) while some bond together and form a strong unbreakable relationship.
JB & Rossi (and the team) have bonded extremely well and this shows in the results etc.
[quote name='antfan' date='Jul 27 2007, 09:32 AM' post='81662']
Just because hes fast and can communicate well doesnt make him good at development, why do you think he's kept Edwards around for so long? Not like its been Yamaha's preference..
Edwards is his personal tyre tester ... Seems like he is not doing a real good job of that now either!
Isn't Andrew Pitt Yamaha's test rider now?
Just because hes fast and can communicate well doesnt make him good at development, why do you think he's kept Edwards around for so long? Not like its been Yamaha's preference..
Edwards is his personal tyre tester ... Seems like he is not doing a real good job of that now either!
Isn't Andrew Pitt Yamaha's test rider now?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tom @ Jul 26 2007, 04:14 AM) [snapback]81394[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Lorenzo will be beating CV in two years time.
Very much doubt that!!
Besides which, Lorenzo is a ......! His post race celebrations are downright embarrassing! I don't like Pedrosa particularly but he seems 10 times more likable than Jorge!
Lorenzo will be beating CV in two years time.
Very much doubt that!!
Besides which, Lorenzo is a ......! His post race celebrations are downright embarrassing! I don't like Pedrosa particularly but he seems 10 times more likable than Jorge!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Jul 27 2007, 04:58 PM) [snapback]81682[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Very much doubt that!!
Besides which, Lorenzo is a ......! His post race celebrations are downright embarrassing! I don't like Pedrosa particularly but he seems 10 times more likable than Jorge!
Agreed ... he is an arrogant sht and he will be found out in the Top Class. Sucking on a chuppa chup when receiving a trophy is just plain rude!
Very much doubt that!!
Besides which, Lorenzo is a ......! His post race celebrations are downright embarrassing! I don't like Pedrosa particularly but he seems 10 times more likable than Jorge!
Agreed ... he is an arrogant sht and he will be found out in the Top Class. Sucking on a chuppa chup when receiving a trophy is just plain rude!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Jul 27 2007, 12:32 AM) [snapback]81662[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Its pretty easy to dominate when your machinery and mechanics are literally heads and shoulders above anything that anyone else has access too..
ah, so it's all down to the machinery now, when it was stoner were talking about it's all down to the rider, i wish you lot would make up your minds and stick to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Jul 26 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]81553[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I heard Rossi is ......... at development?
where did yopu hear that, the tooth fairy ??
i would say his results before edwards rubbish that theory of yours and speak for its self.
Its pretty easy to dominate when your machinery and mechanics are literally heads and shoulders above anything that anyone else has access too..
ah, so it's all down to the machinery now, when it was stoner were talking about it's all down to the rider, i wish you lot would make up your minds and stick to it.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(antfan @ Jul 26 2007, 05:08 PM) [snapback]81553[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I heard Rossi is ......... at development?
where did yopu hear that, the tooth fairy ??
i would say his results before edwards rubbish that theory of yours and speak for its self.
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Rossi keeps Edwards around because Edwards is more than willing to play the role of supporting rider, letting Rossi through and blocking the riders behind whenever Rossi needs.
