Ducati GP9 / GP10

Nuts · Jun 20, 2010

Clearly the Duc GP10 is better for Hayden that the GP9, but Stoner is struggling on it comparred to 2009.

I realise its impossible to compare lap times a year apart, but Stoner seems to have lost speed on the new bike. Apparently the frame and rear end is basically the same on both bikes, but the front end and engine are radically different, and electronics very different.

If Ducati has access to both bikes and both styles of engines, why not run the GP10 style bike for Nicky and go back to the GP9 style bike for Stoner, and make it as edgy and extreme as Stoner wants, knowing that no one else will need to ride the thing, but that on that bike Stoner has the confidence to ride the thing as hard as hell.

That would mean Ducati riders could have the option of the GP9 or GP10 bike.

Further to this, it seems that the new Ducati engine has fuel consumption issues, with both Stoner and Hayden in fuel conserve mode for a big part of the Silverstone race. That is possibly why Hayden lost 3rd.

In spite of the results so far this year, clearly Stoner is one of the biggest assets Ducati has, and has the capacity to challenge the Fiat Yam bikes, if his bike is right. It makes no sense to persist with a direction that reduces his speed.

Thoughts ????

nero · Jun 21, 2010

GP10 is almost as good as GP9. But not at the GP9 par as yet. GP10 helps Hayden save the tire during the race. The GP10 engine a little bit calm compared to the aggressive GP9 engine. Probably, the reason Stoner having problem to deal with it's peak point resulting bad start and bad front -end grip and turns.

This season supposed to be Hayden best chance to get a good result. But his biggest problem is his nemesis Dovizioso. When he stuck behind Dovi, Hayden seem can't decide how to take the pass. He has no problem with other riders. In Silverstone race, Hayden has many chances to get by Dovi, but his indecision stop him doing so. This let Spies study his weakness very closely and able to take the advantages. Hayden also almost lost the 4th place to Stoner. But Stoner, by today I learn he is a very good team mate. He didn't want to add a salt into Hayden's injury despite he was working hard enough coming from the back of the grid.

I would say GP10 is about 60% of GP9 capabilities. The CF frame definitely not work for the Big-Bang GP10. They should return to the Trellis frame because the lack of the engine aggressiveness didn't need so much flex in their chassis. Not much can do with the reduced top-speed, but they definitely need to re-mapping the engine to get the best acceleration above the par that Honda and Yamaha had. Anything else is rider's side of things to make it perfect...

vibe · Jun 21, 2010

nero said:
GP10 is almost as good as GP9. But not at the GP9 par as yet. GP10 helps Hayden save the tire during the race. The GP10 engine a little bit calm compared to the aggressive GP9 engine. Probably, the reason Stoner having problem to deal with it's peak point resulting bad start and bad front -end grip and turns.

This season supposed to be Hayden best chance to get a good result. But his biggest problem is his nemesis Dovizioso. When he stuck behind Dovi, Hayden seem can't decide how to take the pass. He has no problem with other riders. In Silverstone race, Hayden has many chances to get by Dovi, but his indecision stop him doing so. This let Spies study his weakness very closely and able to take the advantages. Hayden also almost lost the 4th place to Stoner. But Stoner, by today I learn he is a very good team mate. He didn't want to add a salt into Hayden's injury despite he was working hard enough coming from the back of the grid.

I would say GP10 is about 60% of GP9 capabilities. The CF frame definitely not work for the Big-Bang GP10. They should return to the Trellis frame because the lack of the engine aggressiveness didn't need so much flex in their chassis. Not much can do with the reduced top-speed, but they definitely need to re-mapping the engine to get the best acceleration above the par that Honda and Yamaha had. Anything else is rider's side of things to make it perfect...

JB thought Ducati had built their bike and then added the forks - Yamaha did that as well but their two test riders were crashing (loosing the front) just like Stoner so they decided to re-contruct the bike around the forks, he was of the opinion it would take Ducati a while to get their bike right. Amoung the engineers in the paddock this is well understood and those in opposition are thankful Casey has this issue. JB laughed that Casey would not have a problem getting a ride next year

mylexicon · Jun 21, 2010

According to most of the reports I've read from Silverstone, the Ducati is having trouble keeping heat in the tires. Nicky has always been hard on tires so he doesn't have the same issues. He's also a bit heavier than Stoner. You may have noticed that Ducati have run the softer rear tire mainly b/c the big bang engine is relatively easy on the rear. You've probably also noticed that Lorenzo is a bit slow at the beginning of the races (except Silverstone), but by the end he's got the tires on song in perfect operating temperature.

Apparently, lots of teams are having trouble getting the tires up to temperature; Suzuki worst of all.

I'm more interested in finding out why Bridgestone have chosen such hard compounds. Are they trying to make sure that jockeys don't dominate the sport per Dorna's request? or are there technical reasons?

It makes you wonder if Honda will flirt with a 5 cyclinder engine again. The weight penalty is only 7.5kg IIRC. It would probably help Dani keep heat in the tires, and it would probably last longer if they were able to shrink the bore dimensions. The possible 4 cylinder rule may be the determining factor I suppose.

Tom · Jun 21, 2010

mylexicon said:
I'm more interested in finding out why Bridgestone have chosen such hard compounds.

Perhaps its a marketting thing? If Their tyres are more marginal and riders start to ruin them toward the end of races and struggle then Bridgestone looks bad.

Anders · Jun 21, 2010

Tom said:
Perhaps its a marketting thing? If Their tyres are more marginal and riders start to ruin them toward the end of races and struggle then Bridgestone looks bad.

This might have been the plan all along,to make the tires halt the cornerspeed in the end.

Bridgestone started out with the controltire to be a little better(making it easier to go fast) to not making the whole thing seem boring.Eventually the developing of bikes would take over and be the only reason for lower laptimes.

Safety?

I'm just guessing ofcourse.

Anders · Jun 21, 2010

vibe said:
JB thought Ducati had built their bike and then added the forks - Yamaha did that as well but their two test riders were crashing (loosing the front) just like Stoner so they decided to re-contruct the bike around the forks, he was of the opinion it would take Ducati a while to get their bike right. Amoung the engineers in the paddock this is well understood and those in opposition are thankful Casey has this issue. JB laughed that Casey would not have a problem getting a ride next year

It's always interresting to hear what JB has to say.

According to Stoner the old forks gives better feedback and makes the front more manageable.He doesn't seem to mind the engine one bit.The clutch on the other hand..but that goes for Hayden too it seems.

Hayden sais he is helped by the new engine but the big thing is better comunication and experience on the bike it self.

I've got high hopes for Assen.Kallio top ten,and I KNOW Hayden will get podium and Stoner too,perhaps even win and give Lorenzo something to think about.

BarryMachine · Jun 21, 2010

Didn't Stoner say the only data they had for Silverstone was from F1, so they kinda went from that on that data to deduce the compounds I guess, which Stoner suggested was a bit ..... meh.

Rootsman · Jun 21, 2010

nero said:
When he stuck behind Dovi, Hayden seem can't decide how to take the pass. He has no problem with other riders. In Silverstone race, Hayden has many chances to get by Dovi, but his indecision stop him doing so.

Hayden was never close enough to make a pass on Dovi in that race.

mylexicon · Jun 21, 2010

Tom said:
Perhaps its a marketting thing? If Their tyres are more marginal and riders start to ruin them toward the end of races and struggle then Bridgestone looks bad.

You know what? Weren't tire temperature sensors banned for this season?

That would explain everything. The TC no longer has tire temperature readings so cold tires are doubly lethal. Maybe they haven't changed anything with the tires at all. It's just that the bike doesn't know when the tires are cold so people are flying over the highside and breaking their tibia's.

Hmm. Maybe that rule needs a rethink.

J4rn0 · Jun 27, 2010

The tire temperature sensor thing is difficult to understand as a cost-cutting measure, those things don't cost much. And they were there already in the old 500cc.... one wonders why they ruled them out

On the other hand, now the man who is exploiting the super-hard tires at best is no doubt Lorenzo. Previously, it used to be Stoner and Rossi. Lexicon, we need your interpretation of this change.

On my part, I think softer tires that heat up easily would be not only safer but better, -- more so because they would give in quite a bit in the end. Ah, the worn out tires in the last laps... I'm missing them

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