Ducati developing jet technology

evo9 · Feb 2, 2017

So now we know what the salad box is all about.

Ducati developing jet technology for motorcycles | Fox News

Rocketing down the road on a Ducati is one of the most thrilling things you can do.

But what if it were jet-powered?

That’s what the Italian company appears to have planned, according to a patent filing uncovered by Bennetts insurance.

It’s not switching to a turbine engine, but has designed an adjustable nozzle that’s fitted at the end of the exhaust pipe to turn the escaping gases into thrust, similar to the ones used by supersonic jets.

In this case, the idea doesn’t seem to be to push the bike faster, but to use the angle of the exhaust to rotate it forward to help keep the front wheel on the ground during acceleration. Anti-wheelie technology currently in use modulates the power going to the rear wheel, reducing output to achieve the same end. With the nozzle, the motorcycle theoretically could constantly adjust the pressure of the exhaust, while continuing to send as much power to the rear wheel as the tire can handle.

The technology hasn’t yet been spotted being tested on one of Ducati’s race or street bikes, but with news that it’s planning to introduce a street legal model powered by a version of its V4 racing engine, it’s going to need all the help keeping those front wheels on the ground it can get.

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AJV80 · Feb 2, 2017

evo9 said:
So now we know what the salad box is all about.

Ducati developing jet technology for motorcycles | Fox News

Rocketing down the road on a Ducati is one of the most thrilling things you can do.

But what if it were jet-powered?

That’s what the Italian company appears to have planned, according to a patent filing uncovered by Bennetts insurance.

It’s not switching to a turbine engine, but has designed an adjustable nozzle that’s fitted at the end of the exhaust pipe to turn the escaping gases into thrust, similar to the ones used by supersonic jets.

In this case, the idea doesn’t seem to be to push the bike faster, but to use the angle of the exhaust to rotate it forward to help keep the front wheel on the ground during acceleration. Anti-wheelie technology currently in use modulates the power going to the rear wheel, reducing output to achieve the same end. With the nozzle, the motorcycle theoretically could constantly adjust the pressure of the exhaust, while continuing to send as much power to the rear wheel as the tire can handle.

The technology hasn’t yet been spotted being tested on one of Ducati’s race or street bikes, but with news that it’s planning to introduce a street legal model powered by a version of its V4 racing engine, it’s going to need all the help keeping those front wheels on the ground it can get.

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I've seen this article before and posted one similar claiming it was a jet exhaust, its a variable exhaust aperture. This wont produce thrust like the articles suggests might adjust back pressure throughout the RPM range to optimise performance.

The variable nozzles on the tail of a jet motor are used to control its RPM not to produce the thrust.

Mick D · Feb 2, 2017

AJV80 said:
I've seen this article before and posted one similar claiming it was a jet exhaust, its a variable exhaust aperture. This wont produce thrust like the articles suggests might adjust back pressure throughout the RPM range to optimise performance.

The variable nozzles on the tail of a jet motor are used to control its RPM not to produce the thrust.

I don't know .... about jet engines, but was curious as to your assertation. Again, I don't know ...., but this article seems to confirm they are for thrust not rpm control.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propelling_nozzle

Dr No · Feb 3, 2017

Mick D said:
I don't know .... about jet engines, but was curious as to your assertation. Again, I don't know ...., but this article seems to confirm they are for thrust not rpm control.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propelling_nozzle

I dunno. Jets mainly depend on a .... load of mass flow for thrust. How much mass flow pours out of a bike's exhaust? eff all. A MotoGP bike with 22l (assuming that's 22kg) of fuel at stoichiometric will do: (22kg x 14ish) +22 =330kg thrust. Total. Over a whole race.
So share that around for 27 laps: 12 kg of thrust shared over a whole lap.
Super simplified of course. And I'm typing 6 beers in, so may have missed something....but for a napkin/Fermi problem calc, seems in the ballpark.
Why do jets pump so much ....... air (look at a 747's intake)?That's the mass for the thrust, not the fuel. Pistony engines don't do dat

Iamapony · Feb 3, 2017

I don't think it could possibly do much with thrust. Even if it has enough, the ECU would have to "anticipate" acceleration otherwise I think it would be too late to do much. More likely it is for variable back pressure and noise. Two things done with flappers, now. This would be better for noise, but a heck of a lot more expensive.

Theo · Feb 3, 2017

What about the compressor, I'd not have though an internal combustion engine was sufficient.

BTW aren't aircraft engines gas turbines?

AJV80 · Feb 3, 2017

Mick D said:
I don't know .... about jet engines, but was curious as to your assertation. Again, I don't know ...., but this article seems to confirm they are for thrust not rpm control.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propelling_nozzle

To put it simply the gas turbine produces the thrust (the big heavy super expensive part hanging off passenger jet wings), it does this by sucking in enormous volumes of air and compressing it down, adding fuel and igniting it. The variable nozzles seen mainly in fighter jets manage and control its output among other things. More advanced fighter jets use thrust vectoring like with the Su27 and F22 which move these nozzles around to assist in directing the output as well as changing the aperture to optimise engine output and performance.

This initial article is suggesting that Ducati can place a variable nozzle on an regular internal combustion engines exhaust and increase the exhausts volumetric output to levels that would give noticeable amounts of thrust to improve the bikes performance. An engine and can only output the air from its exhaust that it has consumed via its intake. Even if it did have a jet pushing it along it would have adverse effects on the bikes cornering, the bike itself and its geometry is designed for the rear wheel to provide the propulsion not for it to be pushed along by its exhaust.

Taking a stab in the dark id imagine its just a variable aperture to optimise the engines exhaust characteristics on the fly and get more efficiency out of the motor throughout the RPM range.

Dr No · Feb 3, 2017

I have to check the rules, but I have a feeling that variable exhaust geometry is banned (?)
I left out gas speed in my ...... calc. I will have a think about it....
Still, as AJV has stated, a jet flows masses of air, very quickly. An Otto engine isn't going to compete in that regard

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 3, 2017

Mick D said:
Again, I don't know ....,

No worries mate. We were well aware of that from any one of your previous 5090 posts

Dr No · Feb 3, 2017

JohnnyKnockdown said:
No worries mate. We were well aware of that from any one of your previous 5090 posts

Happy Year of the ...., JKD

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 3, 2017

Dr No said:
Happy Year of the ...., JKD

.... a doodle doo. Or as they say in Shovels World, "Any ....'ll do"
Im looking foward to see how the .... handles the fox that Yamaha let in the henhouse

Arrabbiata1 · Feb 4, 2017

Screw jet engines, strap yourself to a rocket like Guy Martin

I was watching on the bank. Sammy Miller (different one) used to run Vanishing Point every year at the Drag World Finals (Santa Pod).

JohnnyKnockdown · Feb 4, 2017

Arrabbiata1 said:
Screw jet engines, strap yourself to a rocket like Guy Martin

I was watching on the bank. Sammy Miller (different one) used to run Vanishing Point every year at the Drag World Finals (Santa Pod).

Looks like he jettisoned a few of those ladies bowels in the process

Keshav · Feb 4, 2017

Arrabbiata1 said:
Screw jet engines, strap yourself to a rocket like Guy Martin

I was watching on the bank. Sammy Miller (different one) used to run Vanishing Point every year at the Drag World Finals (Santa Pod).

Makes me proud all over again to be an American!

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