I heard a few rumours recently that Ducati Inc is in trouble Financially due to its heavy investment in racing not being balanced by machine sales ?
Anyone heard out ?
Anyone heard out ?
That's been the case for nearly a half decade now. Sales have been in the toilet since 2002 and they really turned ugly after the 999 was shown in 2003.
Sales are through the roof thanks to the 1098. Unfortunately, the market that is growing leaps and bounds is North America (thanks to Michael Lock). In the last half decade the exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro has moved in ways unfavorable to imported goods from Europe.
Long story short, they are selling their bikes for cheaper, and the USD they are getting are worth less and less.
They've already restructured 2 or 3 times now. Their bottom line was getting hammered by interest and financing fees. The debt holders have been paid off with equity, and some private Italian investors convinced the old private equity company (based out of Houston) to sell their share so the company would become more nationally held.
The stock price has doubled in the last 8 months. I see no reason to believe the company can't recover. Unfortunately, Ducati has already tried to expand and they failed. That means Ducatis will get even more expensive in order to increase profit.
I might have to start buying Japanese.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 23 2007, 11:30 PM) [snapback]92877[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
That's been the case for nearly a half decade now. Sales have been in the toilet since 2002 and they really turned ugly after the 999 was shown in 2003.
Sales are through the roof thanks to the 1098. Unfortunately, the market that is growing leaps and bounds is North America (thanks to Michael Lock). In the last half decade the exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro has moved in ways unfavorable to imported goods from Europe.
Long story short, they are selling their bikes for cheaper, and the USD they are getting are worth less and less.
They've already restructured 2 or 3 times now. Their bottom line was getting hammered by interest and financing fees. The debt holders have been paid off with equity, and some private Italian investors convinced the old private equity company (based out of Houston) to sell their share so the company would become more nationally held.
The stock price has doubled in the last 8 months. I see no reason to believe the company can't recover. Unfortunately, Ducati has already tried to expand and they failed. That means Ducatis will get even more expensive in order to increase profit.
I might have to start buying Japanese.
hmm..
I may have to go Japanese as well. I know that the Superbike models fetch a nice little profit margin for the company. Back during the late 998 early 999 days. About 37 -40% was good on the superbikes.
But the company was selling te Monsters like hot cakes and not making any money on the monsters..
Hence a few changes in the price structure of the other models. best sellers like the monster brand have been upped in the price...
But you are right..
Ducati has had it's share of financal woes..
You can buy a complete analysis of the company that outlines its restructure, future prospects etc..
That's been the case for nearly a half decade now. Sales have been in the toilet since 2002 and they really turned ugly after the 999 was shown in 2003.
Sales are through the roof thanks to the 1098. Unfortunately, the market that is growing leaps and bounds is North America (thanks to Michael Lock). In the last half decade the exchange rate between the dollar and the Euro has moved in ways unfavorable to imported goods from Europe.
Long story short, they are selling their bikes for cheaper, and the USD they are getting are worth less and less.
They've already restructured 2 or 3 times now. Their bottom line was getting hammered by interest and financing fees. The debt holders have been paid off with equity, and some private Italian investors convinced the old private equity company (based out of Houston) to sell their share so the company would become more nationally held.
The stock price has doubled in the last 8 months. I see no reason to believe the company can't recover. Unfortunately, Ducati has already tried to expand and they failed. That means Ducatis will get even more expensive in order to increase profit.
I might have to start buying Japanese.
hmm..
I may have to go Japanese as well. I know that the Superbike models fetch a nice little profit margin for the company. Back during the late 998 early 999 days. About 37 -40% was good on the superbikes.
But the company was selling te Monsters like hot cakes and not making any money on the monsters..
Hence a few changes in the price structure of the other models. best sellers like the monster brand have been upped in the price...
But you are right..
Ducati has had it's share of financal woes..
You can buy a complete analysis of the company that outlines its restructure, future prospects etc..
well i hope now they have a convincing world championship win in motogp there sales will rocket, if i could afford one i would be in the dealers now.
This post got me really worring so i pre-payed the local dealer for a decmocedici and 3 1098's
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(koskal @ Sep 24 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]92935[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This post got me really worring so i pre-payed the local dealer for a decmocedici and 3 1098's
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
beautiful. i had a 400dx before i got an elsie, then a gamma.
the good old days
This post got me really worring so i pre-payed the local dealer for a decmocedici and 3 1098's
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
beautiful. i had a 400dx before i got an elsie, then a gamma.
the good old days
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
It has been said the Japanese race to sell bikes and Ducati sells bikes so they can race.Sounds like a true statement.It gets back to the old argument,does Ducati need to change its way of thinking to survive or do they go down the tubes hanging on to tradition.Why not build a V4 sport bike thats affordable.Instead of catering to the elite and collectors,cater to the masses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Sep 24 2007, 03:08 PM) [snapback]93002[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It has been said the Japanese race to sell bikes and Ducati sells bikes so they can race.Sounds like a true statement.It gets back to the old argument,does Ducati need to change its way of thinking to survive or do they go down the tubes hanging on to tradition.Why not build a V4 sport bike thats affordable.Instead of catering to the elite and collectors,cater to the masses.
theres more profit per unit producing expensive exotic bikes than mass producing bikes and less over heads. this is why firms like ford buy company's like aston martin ect.
It has been said the Japanese race to sell bikes and Ducati sells bikes so they can race.Sounds like a true statement.It gets back to the old argument,does Ducati need to change its way of thinking to survive or do they go down the tubes hanging on to tradition.Why not build a V4 sport bike thats affordable.Instead of catering to the elite and collectors,cater to the masses.
theres more profit per unit producing expensive exotic bikes than mass producing bikes and less over heads. this is why firms like ford buy company's like aston martin ect.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 24 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]93005[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
theres more profit per unit producing expensive exotic bikes than mass producing bikes and less over heads. this is why firms like ford buy company's like aston martin ect.
I dont know about Europe but Honda sells roughly 25- 30 bikes to Ducati's 1 here in the States.Yamaha around 20 to 1 and so on.Ducati has less than 1% of the US market and its because the motorcycle buying public knows you can buy more reliability and performance for 30-40% less money.Sales is all about numbers.I dont know about you but i would much rather sell 30 bikes at 1k profit a unit than 1 at 5k.I know they will never be Honda or anywhere near the big 4 but they could easily sell 5 times as many bikes if they would build comparable sport bike in the 11-12k range.
theres more profit per unit producing expensive exotic bikes than mass producing bikes and less over heads. this is why firms like ford buy company's like aston martin ect.
I dont know about Europe but Honda sells roughly 25- 30 bikes to Ducati's 1 here in the States.Yamaha around 20 to 1 and so on.Ducati has less than 1% of the US market and its because the motorcycle buying public knows you can buy more reliability and performance for 30-40% less money.Sales is all about numbers.I dont know about you but i would much rather sell 30 bikes at 1k profit a unit than 1 at 5k.I know they will never be Honda or anywhere near the big 4 but they could easily sell 5 times as many bikes if they would build comparable sport bike in the 11-12k range.
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 24 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]92994[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
beautiful. i had a 400dx before i got an elsie, then a gamma.
the good old days
Excellent - I had 2 400RDs and a Gamma. Seriously considering trying to find a decent Gamma again - really miss the old two stroke power delivery!
beautiful. i had a 400dx before i got an elsie, then a gamma.
the good old days
Excellent - I had 2 400RDs and a Gamma. Seriously considering trying to find a decent Gamma again - really miss the old two stroke power delivery!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Sep 24 2007, 08:05 PM) [snapback]93025[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I dont know about Europe but Honda sells roughly 25- 30 bikes to Ducati's 1 here in the States.Yamaha around 20 to 1 and so on.Ducati has less than 1% of the US market and its because the motorcycle buying public knows you can buy more reliability and performance for 30-40% less money.Sales is all about numbers.I dont know about you but i would much rather sell 30 bikes at 1k profit a unit than 1 at 5k.I know they will never be Honda or anywhere near the big 4 but they could easily sell 5 times as many bikes if they would build comparable sport bike in the 11-12k range.
something i heard on the radio a while back supprised me. they said that the ford factorys profit for 1 basic mondeao car was only £40 per unit,so they have to produce millions in a short time to make a proffit.
they make more money selling accessory's and spares for cheap cars thats where the money is.
where as aston martin,the profit could be 100,000 pounds or more which is why fords and gm like to buy up these exotic car producers and keep them running.
now i dont no what dudati's profit on say a 999 is,but i bet its many times what yam get for an R1. plus ducati spares and accessory's earn more profit .
so my point was ,that i dont thik ducati are quite as poor as people think
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Sep 24 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]93026[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Excellent - I had 2 400RDs and a Gamma. Seriously considering trying to find a decent Gamma again - really miss the old two stroke power delivery!
i got my eye on a bog standard elsie350 ypvs, just asking a bit tomuch at the moment.
my mate had an RD500 and another had an ns400r, the tripple both went like stink, never did get a go on the 500 gamma. mine was a 250we, the first one out cos im old i had moved on to big 4 stroke's by the time the rgv came out.
oooh i love the smell of castrol R in the morning.
I dont know about Europe but Honda sells roughly 25- 30 bikes to Ducati's 1 here in the States.Yamaha around 20 to 1 and so on.Ducati has less than 1% of the US market and its because the motorcycle buying public knows you can buy more reliability and performance for 30-40% less money.Sales is all about numbers.I dont know about you but i would much rather sell 30 bikes at 1k profit a unit than 1 at 5k.I know they will never be Honda or anywhere near the big 4 but they could easily sell 5 times as many bikes if they would build comparable sport bike in the 11-12k range.
something i heard on the radio a while back supprised me. they said that the ford factorys profit for 1 basic mondeao car was only £40 per unit,so they have to produce millions in a short time to make a proffit.
they make more money selling accessory's and spares for cheap cars thats where the money is.
where as aston martin,the profit could be 100,000 pounds or more which is why fords and gm like to buy up these exotic car producers and keep them running.
now i dont no what dudati's profit on say a 999 is,but i bet its many times what yam get for an R1. plus ducati spares and accessory's earn more profit .
so my point was ,that i dont thik ducati are quite as poor as people think
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(yamaka46 @ Sep 24 2007, 08:13 PM) [snapback]93026[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Excellent - I had 2 400RDs and a Gamma. Seriously considering trying to find a decent Gamma again - really miss the old two stroke power delivery!
i got my eye on a bog standard elsie350 ypvs, just asking a bit tomuch at the moment.
my mate had an RD500 and another had an ns400r, the tripple both went like stink, never did get a go on the 500 gamma. mine was a 250we, the first one out cos im old i had moved on to big 4 stroke's by the time the rgv came out.
oooh i love the smell of castrol R in the morning.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(povol @ Sep 24 2007, 07:08 AM) [snapback]93002[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
It has been said the Japanese race to sell bikes and Ducati sells bikes so they can race.Sounds like a true statement.It gets back to the old argument,does Ducati need to change its way of thinking to survive or do they go down the tubes hanging on to tradition.Why not build a V4 sport bike thats affordable.Instead of catering to the elite and collectors,cater to the masses.
Ducati already tried to expand so they could sell to the masses, but they failed. They won't make a big move only 3-4 years after they failed so miserably and nearly bankrupted the company. I think they are actually poorer than everyone realize. Don't forget Minoli built the temple of self worship (the Duc museum) right before the company nearly went belly up. The value of the name, and the irrational Italians who keep throwing money at it are the ones keeping it going. That said, they should make big bucks if they can keep 1098's sold out.
Why would Duc build a V-4? how would it be any different from the masses of 4 cylinder superbikes? It would be really cool to have a mass produced Italian V-4 that says Duc on the tank but people already complain Ducati are too expensive. Do you want to pay to shim a max of 16 desmo valves every 7500 miles?
How much does it cost to boost displacement 200cc? How much does it cost to double the number of cylinders, valves, etc? They already make a V-4 dream bike that no one can afford.
Ducatis are known for being narrow, tractable, and making a beautiful growl. All that disappears if the invest in a new engine config.
I wanted Ducati to make all the big changes to beat the Japanese at their own game, but I'm convinced they can't right now. They are following Porsche's business model. Stick with what you know, make it dominant on the track, and sell like crazy. Another decade of WSBK dominance and 3 or 4 more MGP titles and they'll be on their way.
Imo, the only way we're going to see a mass produced V-4 is if they make a watercooled 500cc V-twin SS model, then they take two of those engines and mate them on one crank. Unfortunately, they use one block for all water-cooled models and they aren't going to put a giant 1100cc engine case in a small nimble 500cc SS. I suppose they might drop a homologation version of the Desmo RR on WSBK if they don't cooperate, but even that seems like a pipe dream.
It has been said the Japanese race to sell bikes and Ducati sells bikes so they can race.Sounds like a true statement.It gets back to the old argument,does Ducati need to change its way of thinking to survive or do they go down the tubes hanging on to tradition.Why not build a V4 sport bike thats affordable.Instead of catering to the elite and collectors,cater to the masses.
Ducati already tried to expand so they could sell to the masses, but they failed. They won't make a big move only 3-4 years after they failed so miserably and nearly bankrupted the company. I think they are actually poorer than everyone realize. Don't forget Minoli built the temple of self worship (the Duc museum) right before the company nearly went belly up. The value of the name, and the irrational Italians who keep throwing money at it are the ones keeping it going. That said, they should make big bucks if they can keep 1098's sold out.
Why would Duc build a V-4? how would it be any different from the masses of 4 cylinder superbikes? It would be really cool to have a mass produced Italian V-4 that says Duc on the tank but people already complain Ducati are too expensive. Do you want to pay to shim a max of 16 desmo valves every 7500 miles?
How much does it cost to boost displacement 200cc? How much does it cost to double the number of cylinders, valves, etc? They already make a V-4 dream bike that no one can afford.
Ducatis are known for being narrow, tractable, and making a beautiful growl. All that disappears if the invest in a new engine config.
I wanted Ducati to make all the big changes to beat the Japanese at their own game, but I'm convinced they can't right now. They are following Porsche's business model. Stick with what you know, make it dominant on the track, and sell like crazy. Another decade of WSBK dominance and 3 or 4 more MGP titles and they'll be on their way.
Imo, the only way we're going to see a mass produced V-4 is if they make a watercooled 500cc V-twin SS model, then they take two of those engines and mate them on one crank. Unfortunately, they use one block for all water-cooled models and they aren't going to put a giant 1100cc engine case in a small nimble 500cc SS. I suppose they might drop a homologation version of the Desmo RR on WSBK if they don't cooperate, but even that seems like a pipe dream.
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(koskal @ Sep 24 2007, 10:45 AM) [snapback]92935[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This post got me really worring so i pre-payed the local dealer for a decmocedici and 3 1098's
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
Now thats what I call an iconic bike!
I didn't own a Gamma Rog, I was spendin my dough on my first Fender bass and a new bass stack at that time, coz I was gonna be a rockstar! But one of my mates had a mark 3. The fun we had on that thing! Right up til 2 tall chaps with white topped hats clocked us at 104 mph braking for Broxden Roundabout near Perth.
It was like the day the music died! Saturdays became more pedestrian (literally!) after that.
Pete
This post got me really worring so i pre-payed the local dealer for a decmocedici and 3 1098's
Anyway it was about time to replace my RD 350...
Actually i'm thinking to give my RD to Rossi as a present. Anyone knows his home address ?
Now thats what I call an iconic bike!
I didn't own a Gamma Rog, I was spendin my dough on my first Fender bass and a new bass stack at that time, coz I was gonna be a rockstar! But one of my mates had a mark 3. The fun we had on that thing! Right up til 2 tall chaps with white topped hats clocked us at 104 mph braking for Broxden Roundabout near Perth.
It was like the day the music died! Saturdays became more pedestrian (literally!) after that.
Pete
Bit of a trend going on at the minute with bike sales,HD have closed some lines down as have BMW.
