Ducati and there new wings

‘Their’

Haven’t they signed Valentino Rossi’s little brother ??




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Zincubus said:

Haven’t they signed Valentino Rossi’s little brother ??




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Kind of, Marini is still racing for VR46 after they bought out Avintia and Tito's contract. but he will be on a Ducati.

its similar to the old hammerhead design the tested a few seasons ago

Don't know why people give Dovizioso the time of day after his dismal performances the last two seasons (rarely any podiums)

Three things to keep an eye on this season -

1. Miller rocketing Ducati into the spotlight and becoming one of the greatest world champions MotoGP has seen so far.

2. The rivalry between Rossi's seniority and Morbidelli's temperament

3. Quartararo's skill growth to earn consistent podiums

Cutter said:

Don't know why people give Dovizioso the time of day after his dismal performances the last two seasons (rarely any podiums)

Three things to keep an eye on this season -

1. Miller rocketing Ducati into the spotlight and becoming one of the greatest world champions MotoGP has seen so far.

2. The rivalry between Rossi's seniority and Morbidelli's temperament

3. Quartararo's skill growth to earn consistent podiums

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I am a Jack fan too, but there is this guy called Marc Marquez who seems to finally have totally resolved his humerus fracture after successful 3rd surgery who has to immediately be the favourite for the title even if he misses the first one or two races, and I for one consider it a strong chance that he will be on the grid for Qatar 1.

Cutter said:

Don't know why people give Dovizioso the time of day after his dismal performances the last two seasons (rarely any podiums)

Three things to keep an eye on this season -

1. Miller rocketing Ducati into the spotlight and becoming one of the greatest world champions MotoGP has seen so far.

2. The rivalry between Rossi's seniority and Morbidelli's temperament

3. Quartararo's skill growth to earn consistent podiums

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1. With Miller and Bagnaia I think Ducati finally have a balanced two rider line up, but do they have a bike that can consistently win races?

2. No doubt Rossi will be a top 10 rider, maybe even challenge for the top 5, but will he be happy with his equipment and team? And will Yamaha (Petronas) be willing to provide him with that?

3. As for Mobidelli, I can see him being Yamahas best rider in the points after round 3, and I can see him being the worst... However I think he has an advantage being on the oldest version of the Yamaha M1.

Cutter said:

2. The rivalry between Rossi's seniority and Morbidelli's temperament

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I think this could be very interesting. As we know Rossi doesn't have a great relationship with anyone who beats him and based on the performance last year Frankie will wipe the floor with him. IIRC it was Uccio who said that the competition with Frankie will fuel Rossi's fire but to do so I would consider that Rossi would have to treat him like all his other rivals.

Cutter said:

Don't know why people give Dovizioso the time of day after his dismal performances the last two seasons (rarely any podiums)

Three things to keep an eye on this season -

1. Miller rocketing Ducati into the spotlight and becoming one of the greatest world champions MotoGP has seen so far.

2. The rivalry between Rossi's seniority and Morbidelli's temperament

3. Quartararo's skill growth to earn consistent podiums

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Probably because Dovi had .... tons more podiums than Rossi over the last 7 years. Maybe because Dovi gave Marquez some of the hardest-won (and lost) podiums of any other racer, while much older than Marquez. Could be because real race fans aren't fickle, and don't treat heroic racers like disposable flip phones when they're no longer at the top of their game. Any of this ring a bell?

I'm going to put this out here as it's just my own opinion based on watching everything.

I believe that signing both Miller and Bagnaia was not a smart move by Ducati. From what I have read, neither are reputed to be any type of development geniuses or even riders that you can really trust to lead direction. Perhaps more in the case of Bagnaia as he is still very new to this. And Jack, talented as he is...I'm not sold on at all. I do think he will deliver good results this season, but from watching him since he moved out of Moto 3 to GP, I do not think he is good at managing races/tires. I actually feel last season, he should have won multiple races, but his tire management left a bit to be desired, and was really problematic in the closing laps. Even though Dovi struggled with coming to terms with the Michelin rear slick, he did pull out a race win even though his season was lackluster compared the past several. He also has always been a great tire management rider which is where he can get away without being the fastest guy on circuit at all times.

My opinion is that they should have signed Jack, kept Dovi, and left Bagnaia at Pramac for one more year. Then evaluate everything in the latter portion of the '21 season to see what they want to do for '22. Instead I feel they've actually inadvertently created a no-win situation with their rider selection for this year. If the results are lackluster --which may turn into a very real possibility, one I'd be happy to be proven wrong on-- then Ducati is going to do what they always do, start pointing the fingers at the riders even though they are the ones who made the decision to go in this direction with their riders.

Jack may have won at Assen in 2016, but he hasn't done much that I would consider highly impressive in the succeeding years. Yes he's got a great personality and everything, but Stoner or Doohan or Bayliss he is not.

Unless Jack has figured out how to effectively manage his tires for 100% of the race while still turning in competitive lap times, he may find himself on the outside looking in, and if Ducati starts pointing fingers at him, he may wish he never signed there.

Though if that situation does unfold, my personal belief is that Audi/VW Group needs to step in and overhaul the entire management structure of Ducati even if it means axing all upper level management because really, at the end of the day, Ducati has the same lunatic Italian mentality that has plagued Ferrari for decades now. Italian teams run by Italians don't work out well historically. Ferrari only turned the corner when they let non-Italians call the shots in the F1 team, and then backslid as soon as they got rid of everyone that wasn't Italian.

I agree neither Jack or Bagnaia, neither are developmental guys, they are not going to spend hours and hours making adjustments. I do think Ducati and Dovi spent way to much time over thinking the set up and that caused them to miss the opportunity to go straight to Q2 and qualify higher. I think that is the reason Ducati did not resign Dovi, instead going with two riders just want to go fast.

Hollywood said:

I agree neither Jack or Bagnaia, neither are developmental guys, they are not going to spend hours and hours making adjustments. I do think Ducati and Dovi spent way to much time over thinking the set up and that caused them to miss the opportunity to go straight to Q2 and qualify higher. I think that is the reason Ducati did not resign Dovi, instead going with two riders just want to go fast.

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My reading of why Dovi was not re-signed has everything to do with Gigi and his relationship falling apart. Struck me as arrogance on Gigi's part where rather than listen to Dovi's feedback and work on developing a bike that actually works/turns, it was easier to blame the rider. Ducati has a long track record of blaming riders for lack of results instead of looking in the mirror and recognizing that at some point, it's not the riders, it's your ....... bike design that is the core issue. Stoner even said after it was announced Dovi was not coming back that Ducati still hasn't learned their lesson about listening to riders. I was harsh on Dovi at times in the past, but really, of every rider who ever rode for Ducati from 2007 onward, the only one with more success on the Desmosedici was Stoner. Dovi accomplished more than the venerated Rossi ever did, yet was unceremoniously given the boot. Let's not forget how Ducati resisted making changes to the bike that Jorge requested, and then when they did, well we saw huge results from him. Of course it was too little too late at that point since they made the decision to kick Jorge to the curb.

Having two riders who just want to go fast is all well and good, however if there are issues with the bike, can either of them give the requisite feedback necessary to make fixes? And secondly, will Ducati even bother to listen? History indicates they will not listen at all due to the typical Italian arrogance and false belief in their superiority that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with their GP bikes ever.

JPSLotus said:

My reading of why Dovi was not re-signed has everything to do with Gigi and his relationship falling apart. Struck me as arrogance on Gigi's part where rather than listen to Dovi's feedback and work on developing a bike that actually works/turns, it was easier to blame the rider. Ducati has a long track record of blaming riders for lack of results instead of looking in the mirror and recognizing that at some point, it's not the riders, it's your ....... bike design that is the core issue. Stoner even said after it was announced Dovi was not coming back that Ducati still hasn't learned their lesson about listening to riders. I was harsh on Dovi at times in the past, but really, of every rider who ever rode for Ducati from 2007 onward, the only one with more success on the Desmosedici was Stoner. Dovi accomplished more than the venerated Rossi ever did, yet was unceremoniously given the boot. Let's not forget how Ducati resisted making changes to the bike that Jorge requested, and then when they did, well we saw huge results from him. Of course it was too little too late at that point since they made the decision to kick Jorge to the curb.

Having two riders who just want to go fast is all well and good, however if there are issues with the bike, can either of them give the requisite feedback necessary to make fixes? And secondly, will Ducati even bother to listen? History indicates they will not listen at all due to the typical Italian arrogance and false belief in their superiority that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with their GP bikes ever.

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I agree, it was a Gigi vs Dovi thing, and probably about Lorenzo, Gigi was definitely a Lorenzo man, still wanted him back after he left, and fairly likely was on the Lorenzo side of the debate in regard to which rider’s input was important to the bike at one stage looking like the best overall bike on the grid. Those last lap pounces to beat MM, not someone beaten overly by riders other than Dovi in last lap stoushes were epic, and he indeed showed great racecraft in preserving his tires so he could pounce at the end of a race. Gigi might have preferred seeing his bike run away from the field in Lorenzo’s hands as Jorge did for a few races too late in proceedings.

We shall see with Jack, I had pretty much given up on him mid season last year because of the tire issue you have referred to, but he seemed to take a step in the right direction late season and is making the right noises currently about tire preservation and the bike turning better, as he would I guess.

I strongly doubt he or anyone else is beating an even moderately healthy MM though.

michaelm said:

I agree, it was a Gigi vs Dovi thing, and probably about Lorenzo, Gigi was definitely a Lorenzo man, still wanted him back after he left, and fairly likely was on the Lorenzo side of the debate in regard to which rider’s input was important to the bike at one stage looking like the best overall bike on the grid. Those last lap pounces to beat MM, not someone beaten overly by riders other than Dovi in last lap stoushes were epic, and he indeed showed great racecraft in preserving his tires so he could pounce at the end of a race. Gigi might have preferred seeing his bike run away from the field in Lorenzo’s hands as Jorge did for a few races too late in proceedings.

We shall see with Jack, I had pretty much given up on him mid season last year because of the tire issue you have referred to, but he seemed to take a step in the right direction late season and is making the right noises currently about tyre preservation and the bike turning better, as he would I guess.

I strongly doubt he or anyone else is beating an even moderately healthy MM though.

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It's hard to see anyone doing it but I can't forget that the same general feeling was true of Rossi in 06/07. I know there is a huge difference in the series now with a particular lack of mechanical or tyre advantages for the most part but someone could surprise us.

michaelm said:

We shall see with Jack, I had pretty much given up on him mid season last year because of the tire issue you have referred to, but he seemed to take a step in the right direction late season and is making the right noises currently about tyre preservation and the bike turning better, as he would I guess.

I strongly doubt he or anyone else is beating an even moderately healthy MM though.

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consistency is Jack's issue, I have no doubt he will be a factor this year and we will probably see him on the podium a few times, might even win a race or two.

Hollywood said:

consistency is Jack's issue, I have no doubt he will be a factor this year and we will probably see him on the podium a few times, might even win a race or two.

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I think 3 dnfs not due to any error of his, and as has been said not being able to get his tires to last to the end of the race for most of the season were his major problems, other than that he had the speed most weekends and didn't make many egregious errors, although he still didn't win when he seemed to have sorted how to use the tires better towards the end of the season.

michaelm said:

I think 3 dnfs not due to any error of his, and as has been said not being able to get his tires to last to the end of the race for most of the season were his major problems, other than that he had the speed most weekends and didn't make many egregious errors, although he still didn't win when he seemed to have sorted how to use the tires better towards the end of the season.

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Jack needs to qualify well, that way he does not need to use up his tires getting around traffic.

These new wings sounds like a good move in circular motions. But are these wings for work all types of bikes or just one certain motorcycle?