Ducati 2016: no concessions

Jumkie · Dec 8, 2015

Not only does Ducati lose its concessions, but Yamaha and Honda gain 2 liters of fuel. They will have to qualify on race tires, but get the same tire options available as the others now. I think the most significant concession was the allowance to develop engine during the season, and the extra engines, however, the new ECU may initially be an advantage as they are probably more familiar with it. Also, having 8 machines all data sharing should help them. I think they may start strong as they did in 2015, but then fade as the Honda and Yamaha dial in their electronics.

Will we see Ducati win a race this season (the last being in 2010)? Will they compete with the top four or be competing with the satellites as usual? The Michelin race tire will be the big unknown obviously.

MotoGP: Ducati not worried by loss of concessions | MotoGP 0

JPSLotus · Dec 8, 2015

Jumkie said:
Not only does Ducati lose its concessions, but Yamaha and Honda gain 2 liters of fuel. They will have to qualify on race tires, but get the same tire options available as the others now. I think the most significant concession was the allowance to develop engine during the season, and the extra engines, however, the new ECU may initially be an advantage as they are probably more familiar with it. Also, having 8 machines all data sharing should help them. I think they may start strong as they did in 2015, but then fade as the Honda and Yamaha dial in their electronics.

Will we see Ducati win a race this season (the last being in 2010)? Will they compete with the top four or be competing with the satellites as usual? The Michelin race tire will be the big unknown obviously.

MotoGP: Ducati not worried by loss of concessions | MotoGP 0

Another rules change that is aimed at hurting Ducati.

It's difficult to fathom why MotoGP is so intent on taking Ducati down every chance they can, especially since a competitive Ducati is good for the sport at large since it makes the front far more interesting when it's not a Yamaha-Honda only battle. Watching Ducati battle it out with the satellite bikes is depressing.

I would say the Desmosedici is capable of winning a race in 2016. But I don't see the bike winning a race because Dovizioso is not that top tier rider. I haven't been impressed with anything I've seen out of him, and would argue he's an overrated rider. Iannone is the wild card, and as fun as he is to watch, whether he can really push the bike to the next level is another story. With the two riders, their best opportunities to win are going to be at Losail, Mugello, and Phillip Island. Possibly any other circuit if it is a wet weather race.

Depending on how things unfold with the Michelins, that may be their real best shot. I don't see them being able to outperform Honda or Yamaha with the ECU.

If you're Ducati, with this bit of news, even though they say they're not worried, you have to really be hoping Stoner decides he wants to Wild Card because he's still the one who gives them the best shot of ending their winless drought if the factory riders don't do something in the first 3 or 4 races.

littlesparrows · Dec 8, 2015

I BET THEY ARE DICKING OVER DUCATI BECAUSE CASEY STONER IS A POSSIBLE WILD CARD & EVERYONE WANTS TO .... WITH STONER BECAUSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

JPSLotus · Dec 8, 2015

Nah, this was coming because Honda and Yamaha don't like the idea of any rule being circumvented since it could always put their firm grasp on GP at risk.

Too bad Dorna continues letting the manufacturers dictate the rules to their benefit as opposed to trying to make the entire thing better for those not named Yamaha or Honda...which happens to be most of the grid.

Nothing good has ever come of letting manufacturers constantly get their input turned into reality in motorsport since it's done to try and increase their already strong position.

littlesparrows · Dec 8, 2015

i just wanted to sound ridiculous.

JPSLotus · Dec 8, 2015

You don't even have to try, we already know you are ridiculous.

:giggle:

shovelhead · Dec 8, 2015

Ducati were running with 22 litres all year long eventhough they were allowed 24 litres.
They were getting prepped up.

The tire concession of 2015, ..... I honestly think it was a disadvantage to them.
Not having the option to use hard tires did more harm than good.

ratdeal · Dec 8, 2015

If I were a betting man, I'd have a punt on Iannone for WC 2016...

Jumkie · Dec 8, 2015

ratdeal said:
If I were a betting man, I'd have a punt on Iannone for WC 2016...

Never bet with your heart.

I think the odds are exactly as follows:

Marquez
Lorenzo
Pedrosa (if he doesn't break)
Rossi

Then everybody else is a toss up.

Jumkie · Dec 8, 2015

littlesparrows said:
I BET THEY ARE DICKING OVER DUCATI BECAUSE CASEY STONER IS A POSSIBLE WILD CARD & EVERYONE WANTS TO .... WITH STONER BECAUSE CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

...because conspiracy theories. Hahaha. This was good.

But actually, I really am wondering how Casey will help Ducati. I suppose it can't hurt, right? Unless we believe Casey can't develop a cold. But Gigi will have 8 bikes out there, and one fast guy with unlimited testing allowance all year. Of course now that they can't develop the engine they are ...... if it turns out the be the 'epic pile of ....' that Honda strapped on their RCV this year...apparently. For the sake of my sanity, I do hope Iannone wins a Nobel prize and the 2016 world championship, but we all know he has more chance at the Nobel. Since we are entertaining complete fantasy, question for Krops, would Casey Stoner be allowed to contest the 2016 championship if say, in the unlikely event he was talked into it?

Dr No · Dec 8, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Another rules change that is aimed at hurting Ducati.

It's difficult to fathom why MotoGP is so intent on taking Ducati down every chance they can, especially since a competitive Ducati is good for the sport at large since it makes the front far more interesting when it's not a Yamaha-Honda only battle. Watching Ducati battle it out with the satellite bikes is depressing.

I would say the Desmosedici is capable of winning a race in 2016. But I don't see the bike winning a race because Dovizioso is not that top tier rider. I haven't been impressed with anything I've seen out of him, and would argue he's an overrated rider. Iannone is the wild card, and as fun as he is to watch, whether he can really push the bike to the next level is another story. With the two riders, their best opportunities to win are going to be at Losail, Mugello, and Phillip Island. Possibly any other circuit if it is a wet weather race.

Depending on how things unfold with the Michelins, that may be their real best shot. I don't see them being able to outperform Honda or Yamaha with the ECU.

If you're Ducati, with this bit of news, even though they say they're not worried, you have to really be hoping Stoner decides he wants to Wild Card because he's still the one who gives them the best shot of ending their winless drought if the factory riders don't do something in the first 3 or 4 races.

Was it a rule change?
I thought it was because they were successful enough in 2015 to get docked the concessions, something written into the rules in 2013 (for the 2014 season? not sure though).
Unless we know how many changes they actually made to the engine during the year, and combine that with how many engines they pulled from their allocation, we are unlikely to garner how much they might be bricking it.
Personally, I hope Iannone is capable of taking up from where he left 2015 and is a regular podium (or better) visitor

jmmk · Dec 8, 2015

Can someone tell me why Ducati was and is so successful in WSBK yet can't seem to make headway in GP?

Arrabbiata1 · Dec 8, 2015

jmmk said:
Can someone tell me why Ducati was and is so successful in WSBK yet can't seem to make headway in GP?

Well for many years a quarter of a litre advantage on the IL4s and a rule book that was consistently rewritten in Bologna at the behest of FG sports - and having this Italian promoter and organiser may well have helped.

jmmk · Dec 8, 2015

Arrabbiata1 said:
Well for many years a quarter of a litre advantage on the IL4s and a rule book that was consistently rewritten in Bologna at the behest of FG sports - and having this Italian promoter and organiser may well have helped.

I understand that kind of from the past but they still win lots now. Re.Chaz Davies

Hollywood · Dec 8, 2015

The tires were not a big advantage for Ducati last year, and there is a case to be made that the tire rule hurt them. Of course everyone goes into 2016 with tire questions and the other big variable being the new electronics. I think its safe to say they have a good engine, but do the have the riders that can get Ducati back to the top step of the podium?

Deefer Dogg · Dec 8, 2015

Jumkie said:
Will we see Ducati win a race this season (the last being in 2010)? Will they compete with the top four or be competing with the satellites as usual? The Michelin race tire will be the big unknown obviously.

MotoGP: Ducati not worried by loss of concessions | MotoGP 0

Certainly hope the Dukes do win a race or two in 2016. The more manufacturers and riders challenging the better.

If only Suzuki could get their engine sorted as well.

Jumkie · Dec 8, 2015

Dr No said:
Was it a rule change?
I thought it was because they were successful enough in 2015 to get docked the concessions, something written into the rules in 2013 (for the 2014 season? not sure though).
Unless we know how many changes they actually made to the engine during the year, and combine that with how many engines they pulled from their allocation, we are unlikely to garner how much they might be bricking it.
Personally, I hope Iannone is capable of taking up from where he left 2015 and is a regular podium (or better) visitor

I know it's all very confusing, but you might want to review how we got to the point that podiums would result in sanctions.

povol · Dec 8, 2015

This is nothing new. The rules have not changed to somehow hold Ducati back. This was scheduled to happen.

Rafa · Dec 9, 2015

I think Ducati will have a better season even without Stoner(he can always add more by winning or podium finishes) From the testing so far Ducatis look strong. Let's see what Yamaha testing results turn out to be. With the kind of knowledge they already have on the Magneti ECU, they have more advantage this year than earlier. On the fuel front, Yamaha-Honda were already able to race full length without any issues. In fact extra fuel has become a a problem for them(remember how that caused issue to Marquez in the initial few laps and how Yamaha is trying innovative solution by placing tank on the rear).
What Dukes are worrying about is going full-length on hard tires and how extra soft option is no more available to them for faster qualifying laps. That's where the challenge for them it would be. Overall, Dukes seem to be able to cope up with the less than awesome front tires from Michelin which is already a big worry for Yamaha-Honda.
Fingers crossed for Mr.Redding

povol said:
This is nothing new. The rules have not changed to somehow hold Ducati back. This was scheduled to happen.

Rafa · Dec 9, 2015

We should also look at Vinalez as a tip seed for next year. He can do a 2007 Stoner

Ducati 2016: no concessions

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