According to ITV news D.Coulthat blame others and be responsible for the incident and seeking apologises...This is racing and he knew that...At the age of 37 he should have retired and let the new kids driving
DC has been involved in a few very similar accidents recently and it makes me wonder. In each case he has been in front so basic racing principles would suggest he is welcome to take the racing line or block as he choses. But the other side of that is that by leaving the door open untill the last moment and then changing line suddenly, he is casusing avoidable accidents. I'm not sure exactly what the drivers discuss in the drivers meetings but Button suggested in the previous race that David wasn't following the agreed proceedures.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2008, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>DC has been involved in a few very similar accidents recently and it makes me wonder. In each case he has been in front so basic racing principles would suggest he is welcome to take the racing line or block as he choses. But the other side of that is that by leaving the door open untill the last moment and then changing line suddenly, he is casusing avoidable accidents. I'm not sure exactly what the drivers discuss in the drivers meetings but Button suggested in the previous race that David wasn't following the agreed proceedures.
Button said:
"I think the problem is that he did look in his mirrors, it was a very different accident to Felipe (Massa) because there was no gap in the end for me to overtake, but the problem was that when I started to hit the brakes there was a gap. Then he moved across to block the corner and by then it was too late. The way I feel, and the way that we discuss in our [GPDA] meetings is that you shouldn't move across in the braking zone and he moved, and I had nowhere to go. When we actually hit each other it was very late in the corner, but that was more me trying to avoid him than anything else. It wasn't an overtaking move."
LINK
Didn't realise that you were supposed to "avoid moving in the braking zone" nowadays.
There is, however, accepted wisdom as to when you have the racing line in a corner, and it certainly ain't when the whole of your car is invisible to the driver in front. To the best of my knowledge, the accepted wisdom is your front wheels are supposed to be ahead of those of the car being overtaken in order to "claim the track" on the inside line. Until the "overtaking" driver has established the track position, preferably before corner entry, he has to understand that it is not his line to take and that he best get on the brakes pronto. Throwing your car at a "gap" during a corner is not how to do it.
To quote DC :
"I don't want to crash with any of these people, but I'm not just going to move over and say 'after you, Claude'. If it makes them happier, I'll say it was all my fault, but, on that basis, it will be all my fault if they try the same thing again, because I can't see them when they're in my blind spot, we have high cockpit sides, and they're not far enough alongside. Either pass me properly or don't stick your nose in there."
LINK
Think of the stick Careless Chucka has had on here for an incident where he did have the racing line into the corner, just lost the bike on the way out of the corner. (Tom, I know you said "racing incident" to that one...)
Button said:
"I think the problem is that he did look in his mirrors, it was a very different accident to Felipe (Massa) because there was no gap in the end for me to overtake, but the problem was that when I started to hit the brakes there was a gap. Then he moved across to block the corner and by then it was too late. The way I feel, and the way that we discuss in our [GPDA] meetings is that you shouldn't move across in the braking zone and he moved, and I had nowhere to go. When we actually hit each other it was very late in the corner, but that was more me trying to avoid him than anything else. It wasn't an overtaking move."
LINK
Didn't realise that you were supposed to "avoid moving in the braking zone" nowadays.
There is, however, accepted wisdom as to when you have the racing line in a corner, and it certainly ain't when the whole of your car is invisible to the driver in front. To the best of my knowledge, the accepted wisdom is your front wheels are supposed to be ahead of those of the car being overtaken in order to "claim the track" on the inside line. Until the "overtaking" driver has established the track position, preferably before corner entry, he has to understand that it is not his line to take and that he best get on the brakes pronto. Throwing your car at a "gap" during a corner is not how to do it.
To quote DC :
"I don't want to crash with any of these people, but I'm not just going to move over and say 'after you, Claude'. If it makes them happier, I'll say it was all my fault, but, on that basis, it will be all my fault if they try the same thing again, because I can't see them when they're in my blind spot, we have high cockpit sides, and they're not far enough alongside. Either pass me properly or don't stick your nose in there."
LINK
Think of the stick Careless Chucka has had on here for an incident where he did have the racing line into the corner, just lost the bike on the way out of the corner. (Tom, I know you said "racing incident" to that one...)
Yea. I think ultimately the responsibility to make a clean pass comes from the person making it, but it just seems to be the same guy involved in these incidents, confusing.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2008, 10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yea. I think ultimately the responsibility to make a clean pass comes from the person making it, but it just seems to be the same guy involved in these incidents, confusing.
So you are saying that if lightning strikes you more than once there must be an element of it being your fault?
So you are saying that if lightning strikes you more than once there must be an element of it being your fault?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 23 2008, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So you are saying that if lightning strikes you more than once there must be an element of it being your fault?
Nah but i think that his actions need to be considered to determine if this is coincedence is not. He may not be doing anything wrong, but is he doing something different to the other drivers? Perhaps hes just harder than them, i don't know. It might be in his best interest to re-think his racecraft if these things keep happening to him.
Nah but i think that his actions need to be considered to determine if this is coincedence is not. He may not be doing anything wrong, but is he doing something different to the other drivers? Perhaps hes just harder than them, i don't know. It might be in his best interest to re-think his racecraft if these things keep happening to him.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nah but i think that his actions need to be considered to determine if this is coincedence is not. He may not be doing anything wrong, but is he doing something different to the other drivers? Perhaps hes just harder than them, i don't know. It might be in his best interest to re-think his racecraft if these things keep happening to him.
So, the guy with 230-plus race starts should be rethinking his racecraft because 2 less experienced drivers (especially without TC) were unable to comprehend that to make a pass you need to get your wheels in front before the apex.
It is not up to the victim to rethink anything, especially one such as DC who, whilst he may not have won a WC, has raced with skill and aplomb for many years.
Maybe the hypothetical guy (from my last post) who was struck by lightning twice, spent too much time working outside, hence you could consider it to be no coincidence - he wasn't doing anything wrong per se, but he'd have been less likely to be struck by lightning with a desk job.
So, the guy with 230-plus race starts should be rethinking his racecraft because 2 less experienced drivers (especially without TC) were unable to comprehend that to make a pass you need to get your wheels in front before the apex.
It is not up to the victim to rethink anything, especially one such as DC who, whilst he may not have won a WC, has raced with skill and aplomb for many years.
Maybe the hypothetical guy (from my last post) who was struck by lightning twice, spent too much time working outside, hence you could consider it to be no coincidence - he wasn't doing anything wrong per se, but he'd have been less likely to be struck by lightning with a desk job.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 23 2008, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So, the guy with 230-plus race starts should be rethinking his racecraft because 2 less experienced drivers (especially without TC) were unable to comprehend that to make a pass you need to get your wheels in front before the apex.
It is not up to the victim to rethink anything, especially one such as DC who, whilst he may not have won a WC, has raced with skill and aplomb for many years.
Well i'm sure this will be covered in the drivers meetings but if the stewards are not going to take action to dicourage or peanalise these moves, then it would be beneficial to DC's results to either block earlier or conceed the corener when he sees a driver lining him up.
It is not up to the victim to rethink anything, especially one such as DC who, whilst he may not have won a WC, has raced with skill and aplomb for many years.
Well i'm sure this will be covered in the drivers meetings but if the stewards are not going to take action to dicourage or peanalise these moves, then it would be beneficial to DC's results to either block earlier or conceed the corener when he sees a driver lining him up.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 23 2008, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well i'm sure this will be covered in the drivers meetings but if the stewards are not going to take action to dicourage or peanalise these moves, then it would be beneficial to DC's results to either block earlier or conceed the corener when he sees a driver lining him up.
Alternatively he could make comments in the press....
As to "block earlier" what part of "it's my line if I'm in front at the apex" don't Button and Massa understand. How much earlier is he supposed to block? He'd end up defensive driving for the whole lap on that argument and that is not the quickest way around a track.
Alternatively he could make comments in the press....
As to "block earlier" what part of "it's my line if I'm in front at the apex" don't Button and Massa understand. How much earlier is he supposed to block? He'd end up defensive driving for the whole lap on that argument and that is not the quickest way around a track.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 23 2008, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Alternatively he could make comments in the press....
As to "block earlier" what part of "it's my line if I'm in front at the apex" don't Button and Massa understand. How much earlier is he supposed to block? He'd end up defensive driving for the whole lap on that argument and that is not the quickest way around a track.
Well as i said at the start, DC is at no fault if basic racing principles are followed. I also think that it is the responsibility of other drivers to win the corner properley to avoid these accidents, but i am under the impression there are agreed proceedures regarding overtaking. The can of worms question is, should the drivers attmepting these passes be peanalised to discourage this from happening more? It's probably just a coincedence that it happened to DC twice because he is in the lively mid pack area. I doubt he's questioning himself at all, but if it happens more he will be forced to take some kind of action. Another factor could be the poor visability in F1 cars these days, but i've never sat in one so i don't know how bad it is.
As to "block earlier" what part of "it's my line if I'm in front at the apex" don't Button and Massa understand. How much earlier is he supposed to block? He'd end up defensive driving for the whole lap on that argument and that is not the quickest way around a track.
Well as i said at the start, DC is at no fault if basic racing principles are followed. I also think that it is the responsibility of other drivers to win the corner properley to avoid these accidents, but i am under the impression there are agreed proceedures regarding overtaking. The can of worms question is, should the drivers attmepting these passes be peanalised to discourage this from happening more? It's probably just a coincedence that it happened to DC twice because he is in the lively mid pack area. I doubt he's questioning himself at all, but if it happens more he will be forced to take some kind of action. Another factor could be the poor visability in F1 cars these days, but i've never sat in one so i don't know how bad it is.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Apr 27 2008, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>It happened again
Yep. DC must be quite pissed off by now I'd imagine. Three races, three different drivers.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
Yep. DC must be quite pissed off by now I'd imagine. Three races, three different drivers.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 28 2008, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep. DC must be quite pissed off by now I'd imagine. Three races, three different drivers.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
Yea, from what i saw this was the most obvious of the incidents. The stewards investigated but took no action. I read some comments from DC about it, he sounded WELL fed up, don't blame him.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
Yea, from what i saw this was the most obvious of the incidents. The stewards investigated but took no action. I read some comments from DC about it, he sounded WELL fed up, don't blame him.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yamaka46 @ Apr 28 2008, 03:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yep. DC must be quite pissed off by now I'd imagine. Three races, three different drivers.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
Judging by the maneuver he made, DC apparently expected Glock to make a dive there. Who knows if DC maybe blocked Glock earlier in the lap. I think Coulthard is just being a wrecking ball now. He doesn't seem to be making progress and Webber has far outclassed him.
Being overtaken isn't the end of the world. Just put your head down and get the guy back!
If DC doesn't improve fast, I think Bourdais could have his seat next year. This depends on the status of Coulthard's contract, of course.
Glock was definitely in the wrong there.
Judging by the maneuver he made, DC apparently expected Glock to make a dive there. Who knows if DC maybe blocked Glock earlier in the lap. I think Coulthard is just being a wrecking ball now. He doesn't seem to be making progress and Webber has far outclassed him.
Being overtaken isn't the end of the world. Just put your head down and get the guy back!
If DC doesn't improve fast, I think Bourdais could have his seat next year. This depends on the status of Coulthard's contract, of course.
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