Could this be the difference between Spies

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Nov 18 2009, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin WTF did you mean by your post, I think you are trying to be ironic ...... but its difficult for others to see the irony when it is based on what at this present time seems "faith" or "fervor" .
My point is that you suggested that Spies was brought into the Yamaha fold for marketing value. My response is not likely. Edwards is a very popular rider amongst race fans, just as popular as Spies in the states, and Yamaha already have the most marketable rider in the world. That'd be like saying Ducati is going to bring in Chris Vermeulen to raise brand awareness in Oz. My second point was that Tech 3 received some money from Dorna to keep Toseland in the series as it appeased the BBC and their contract with Dorna and that Tech 3 is constantly looking for more money. So to say that Spies' passport was the reason for his switch, in my opinion, doesn't add up.

As far as the hype surrounding Spies, you're right that it's difficult to draw comparisons because what he's drawing against has been rather unsuccessful in MotoGP. What I can't understand is how you fail to see that there is no comparison between Spies and any WSBK rider who has made the switch. Spies has utterly dominated the series in his rookie season, on many tracks he had never seen before, on new tires, with a new team and on a new motorcycle, that at least one world champion has said is not the best on the grid.

If you continue to compare Spies to his predecessor then yeah, I can understand why you'd be skeptical. But there is no comparison between the two, they just both happened to race in the same series. One for seven years with a win rate of 10 percent and the other for one season with a 50 percent win rate. You tell me what there is to compare.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 19 2009, 04:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>My point is that you suggested that Spies was brought into the Yamaha fold for marketing value. My response is not likely. Edwards is a very popular rider amongst race fans, just as popular as Spies in the states, and Yamaha already have the most marketable rider in the world. That'd be like saying Ducati is going to bring in Chris Vermeulen to raise brand awareness in Oz. My second point was that Tech 3 received some money from Dorna to keep Toseland in the series as it appeased the BBC and their contract with Dorna and that Tech 3 is constantly looking for more money. So to say that Spies' passport was the reason for his switch, in my opinion, doesn't add up.

As far as the hype surrounding Spies, you're right that it's difficult to draw comparisons because what he's drawing against has been rather unsuccessful in MotoGP. What I can't understand is how you fail to see that there is no comparison between Spies and any WSBK rider who has made the switch. Spies has utterly dominated the series in his rookie season, on many tracks he had never seen before, on new tires, with a new team and on a new motorcycle, that at least one world champion has said is not the best on the grid.

If you continue to compare Spies to his predecessor then yeah, I can understand why you'd be skeptical. But there is no comparison between the two, they just both happened to race in the same series. One for seven years with a win rate of 10 percent and the other for one season with a 50 percent win rate. You tell me what there is to compare.
I agree with all of the above. Both toseland and edwards have 2 world championships but took several seasons to achieve this, particularly toseland, and were never as dominant as spies has been this year, particularly considering it was his rookie season; I guess barry's argument that both had to beat bayliss for their world championships and ben did not is a reasonable point though. I didn't really follow nicky's american superbike career, but I gather ben stands comparison to him in this class, and nicky is a motogp world champion.

Spies not only dominated what might be the deepest field in WSBK history in his rookie year,on a new bike,on new tires and tracks he had never seen, but people keep forgetting that he won 3 straight AMA titles against arguably one of the top 2-3 Superbike riders of all time,regardless of series.For all the Bayliss fans out there,and i am one,the best Superbike rider you have ever seen just went to GP.If he stayed in the series,no record would be safe.He will do fine on the 800's and when his stint is up on a sattelite bike,the 1000's will be there and he will excel. The kid has IT, whatever IT is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Nov 18 2009, 11:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I didn't really follow nicky's american superbike career, but I gather ben stands comparison to him in this class, and nicky is a motogp world champion.
I'm a Nicky fan through and through, but my opinion is that Spies is a better rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Austin @ Nov 19 2009, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm a Nicky fan through and through, but my opinion is that Spies is a better rider.


Nicky Hayden is a bottom tier racer, he just happened to be lucky and won on dominant machines (Honda). He never really strike me as someone with raw speed or intelligent race craft. What he does offer is his tenacity on the machine and the willingness to put it all on the line, other than that he's really nothing special.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Nov 19 2009, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky Hayden is a bottom tier racer, he just happened to be lucky and won on dominant machines (Honda). He never really strike me as someone with raw speed or intelligent race craft. What he does offer is his tenacity on the machine and the willingness to put it all on the line, other than that he's really nothing special.
YOu are perhaps the biggest moron that has ever smeared his ... over the internet. I mean the picks you make for who is going to be a great rider and such has never ever came true. Yet you call Hayden a bottom teir rider when he is towards the top as far as it goes for the recent and current crop of riders. So get a ...... clue ........ and realize that you suck at picking talent, you haven't got a clue about MotoGP at all, you might as well become a NASCAR fan with you level and lack of intelligence.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Nov 19 2009, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky Hayden is a bottom tier racer, he just happened to be lucky and won on dominant machines (Honda). He never really strike me as someone with raw speed or intelligent race craft. What he does offer is his tenacity on the machine and the willingness to put it all on the line, other than that he's really nothing special.

What greatly impresses me about Ben's initial outings on the M1 is the fact that he has resisted the temptation of exporting his Superbike settings, which is the mistake that so many of his predecessors have made. Instead he has immediately resolved to alter his riding style and adjust to the base settings of his new Moto GP machine - in other words adapting himself to the bike, as opposed to the opposite. A very mature and intelligent outlook, and the fact that he is immediately so fast is testament to his raw natural talent. It's early days yet, but to me, this is almost 'Spencer-esque'. Maybe that's precisely why this is so impressive - the fact that it is early days, and he already knows he's got the speed to be the fastest outside the four 'aliens'

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Nicky Hayden is a bottom tier racer, he just happened to be lucky and won on dominant machines (Honda). He never really strike me as someone with raw speed or intelligent race craft. What he does offer is his tenacity on the machine and the willingness to put it all on the line, other than that he's really nothing special.
and he got a bite

SuperShinya is the new Pinky.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 19 2009, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'> and he got a bite


Did you like how I knocked Hayden down, gave him a bit of credit to build himself up again, then totally just dropped the hammer down on the poor fella?? Hahaha. Btw, It's just my opinion of the guy.....I have mine you have yours. I just think he is Highly HIGHLY overrated as a racer and should thank his lucky stars Honda even kept him onboard to win his championships which Honda could of substituted a monkey for and still win.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy Roo @ Nov 19 2009, 12:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>That statement was (obviously) from all the WSBK riders who've been winning motogp races...oh, wait...that can't be right

They should be embarrassed to say things like this. The bike is easy to ride but where are they, trying not to get lapped, battling for that last point in 15th... bloody easy that is.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperShinya56 @ Nov 19 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you like how I knocked Hayden down, gave him a bit of credit to build himself up again, then totally just dropped the hammer down on the poor fella?? Hahaha. Btw, It's just my opinion of the guy.....I have mine you have yours. I just think he is Highly HIGHLY overrated as a racer and should thank his lucky stars Honda even kept him onboard to win his championships which Honda could of substituted a monkey for and still win.
You are more obsessed with Hayden than Jumkie. Get off his jock already! I dare you to go one month without saying anything about 69, Unless it has to do with you and pinky.

Fixed this for ya Berry

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Nov 18 2009, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You have to remember, to many <span style="color:#ff0000<strike>USers</strike> <span style="color:#00ff00who follow SBK Spies is "the next big thing" ..... to <span style="color:#ff0000<strike>some others</strike> <span style="color:#ff00ffmainly myself and Pinky its difficult to see that? Especially when all we have to go off is comparisons with past examples ....... when the past examples don't look as amazing as is being touted, well obviously one has to assume that in the equation:

How will Spies go = Past examples + fervor

then obviously the value of "fervor" is pretty high from some.

if you have a reason for this value of "fervor" being so high, I would gladly like to see it, otherwise I have to assume a lot of it is just parochially based. Though an admirable quality, to some extent, it doesn't necessarily accord with an unbiased view of things

I understand Jumkies rejection of the "cheerleaders etc. ..... but hey guys beware you aren't doing the same, especially since the guy has had only one race and that was pretty much in accord with what we have seen in the past from ex-SBKers.

I'd rather wait and see, but to date ..... meh .... there's nothing "startling" about Spies ....

Next season will be fun if you are right ... is about all I can see.

THat is what you get for not following a Baylissless SBK this past year.

If you would actually pay attention to Spies, you will see a level of concentration and calculation that is on level with Rossi and Stoner. In fact I'd go as far to say Ben will have a better career in GP than Lorenzo. I may be a fanboy of Spies, just it has nothing to do with him being from the USA. If you'd open your eyes you'll see a Legend in the making.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Traverser @ Nov 20 2009, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Fixed this for ya Berry



THat is what you get for not following a Baylissless SBK this past year.

If you would actually pay attention to Spies, you will see a level of concentration and calculation that is on level with Rossi and Stoner. In fact I'd go as far to say Ben will have a better career in GP than Lorenzo. I may be a fanboy of Spies, just it has nothing to do with him being from the USA. If you'd open your eyes you'll see a Legend in the making.


Well good luck to you then, I admire your devotion .

Its just that the way the USers talk about Spies I expected him to come in and win by quite a margin. But alas he actually did similar to Toseland, and Toselands was in a GP where everybody was keen as mustard, not waiting to go on hol.s or ready to go to SBK or to change teams.

I'm sure you think Spies is the "ants pants", the "ducks guts" I'm sure you see Haga and Co. in WSBK as "deep" whatever that means ( I tend to agree my assessment of WSBK is that the riders in it these days are deep ...... really deep...... bottom of the barrel deep ..... no ok thats not nice, but its no Edwards V's Baylis in WSBK these days. and AMA ....... well if a Camden motorcycle shop owner can be winning that for years in a row ..... well

I think Spies did well to get 7th, but can he find another 40 seconds, thats what he needs to do


Qatar ......

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Nov 19 2009, 08:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies not only dominated what might be the deepest field in WSBK history in his rookie year,on a new bike,on new tires and tracks he had never seen, but people keep forgetting that he won 3 straight AMA titles against arguably one of the top 2-3 Superbike riders of all time,regardless of series.For all the Bayliss fans out there,and i am one,the best Superbike rider you have ever seen just went to GP.If he stayed in the series,no record would be safe.He will do fine on the 800's and when his stint is up on a sattelite bike,the 1000's will be there and he will excel. The kid has IT, whatever IT is.
Hmmm, I tried to explain this to Kesh in another thread... Ben '10 - satellite Yamaha 800; Ben '11 - factory something 800; Ben '12 factory something 1000. No 1000s 'till 2012...

Otherwise in the larger discussion - of farking course we have to wait for the racing to begin... but does that mean we cannot project our thoughts and feelings? Do we not have the ability to analyze data and previous experience and make predictions? Ben will be top six in 2010 IMHO.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarryMachine @ Nov 20 2009, 02:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well good luck to you then, I admire your devotion .

Its just that the way the USers talk about Spies I expected him to come in and win by quite a margin. But alas he actually did similar to Toseland, and Toselands was in a GP where everybody was keen as mustard, not waiting to go on hol.s or ready to go to SBK or to change teams.

I'm sure you think Spies is the "ants pants", the "ducks guts" I'm sure you see Haga and Co. in WSBK as "deep" whatever that means ( I tend to agree my assessment of WSBK is that the riders in it these days are deep ...... really deep...... bottom of the barrel deep ..... no ok thats not nice, but its no Edwards V's Baylis in WSBK these days. and AMA ....... well if a Camden motorcycle shop owner can be winning that for years in a row ..... well

I think Spies did well to get 7th, but can he find another 40 seconds, thats what he needs to do


Qatar ......
The reason i dont think you can compare what Spies and Toseland did in their first race is this. Toseland had all of off season to acclimate himself to the bike with winter testing wheras Spies wildcard rides have been showing up for the weekend,try to get a setup,race and leave. Lets see what Spies does with a winter to set up and test. One thing i will say about Toseland,he showed balls taking Spies seat in WSBK for next year. That is going to be a tough act to follow,especially the way he went kicking and screaming out of GP.Now the comparisons will never end and if he doesnt have a dominant year,all he will hear is i told you so. He may have been better off taking the Ten Kate ride. Its every bit as good as the Yamaha,if not better and the comparisons would be between Rea and Checa instead of Spies. Of course the comparisons will also be with the Tech 3 bike from last year to next.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 20 2009, 03:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hmmm, I tried to explain this to Kesh in another thread... Ben '10 - satellite Yamaha 800; Ben '11 - factory something 800; Ben '12 factory something 1000. No 1000s 'till 2012...
Otherwise in the larger discussion - of farking course we have to wait for the racing to begin... but does that mean we cannot project our thoughts and feelings? Do we not have the ability to analyze data and previous experience and make predictions? Ben will be top six in 2010 IMHO.
Spies to a factory ride in 2011 is not etched in stone.It all depends on what Rossi and Lorenzo end up doing. If one of them leaves after next year,yes he will go factory. If they both resign,Spies isnt going anywhere because he is under contract with Yamaha for 2 years. Same contract he signed that would keep him in WSBK for 1 more year and GP in 2011.They just accelerated the Gp part by a year.

I thought the two years was UP next year, my bad. What are odds of Rossi AND Jorge resigning? I'd give 100 - 1...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Nov 20 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I thought the two years was UP next year, my bad. What are odds of Rossi AND Jorge resigning? I'd give 100 - 1...
The contract he is under now was signed with about 3 events left in the WSBK season. When it became apparent he was special,Yamaha didnt want to risk losing him like the ....... at Suzuki did,so they basically extended him for 2 more years with the promise that they would get him to GP as quick as possible.The only reason they thought about keeping him in WSBK for another year was because Dorna was afraid the BBC would react negatively to them axing the only British rider on the grid,even if he deserved axing. Toseland himself picked up on that and used it as his mantra to stay in GP. He never argued that he deserved to be in GP because of his performance,but because of his passport.In the end, performance won out over passport.