I think its gotta be hard for him. For any rider to believe that on equal equipment they can out ride Rossi is a tal order. Actually doing it is something else. It is much, much easier to be a honda rider, their bikes provide them with different strengths, weaknesses and characteristics. I don't think many guys really want Colins job, stoner said no because he didn't get equal development direction, as if he ever would.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Feb 14 2007, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I tell you what, I'm gonna put it bluntly 'cos it's a terrible arguement, and I want to go get ready for a hot date!
If you have raced through schoolboys, into the adult ranks, family paid out God knows how many thousands living the dream of possibly being fast enough, achieved some wins, gained sponsorship, won national races, moved into the international ranks, gone to the lengths of setting up in business, employed management and PR professionals, who in turn negotiate works contracts so that you end with a rare position on the Moto GP grid........then please tell me what spectator has the right to say..........
"well i hope for the sake of our sport that all of them believe they have what it takes. if any of them think that they can't win, then they need to be replaced now! thats a defeatest attitude! unacceptable!"
Sorry Pete, but I find that a bit unnecessary,..............and get your glad rags on, I'll pick you up at 7!
Hey Burky, I didnt say that!!!!!
Pete
If you have raced through schoolboys, into the adult ranks, family paid out God knows how many thousands living the dream of possibly being fast enough, achieved some wins, gained sponsorship, won national races, moved into the international ranks, gone to the lengths of setting up in business, employed management and PR professionals, who in turn negotiate works contracts so that you end with a rare position on the Moto GP grid........then please tell me what spectator has the right to say..........
"well i hope for the sake of our sport that all of them believe they have what it takes. if any of them think that they can't win, then they need to be replaced now! thats a defeatest attitude! unacceptable!"
Sorry Pete, but I find that a bit unnecessary,..............and get your glad rags on, I'll pick you up at 7!
Hey Burky, I didnt say that!!!!!
Pete
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 14 2007, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>so colins job, if your right , is to soley support rossi? that if he were to become a threat to him by actually winning races that his job would be in jeopardy? like some seem to suggest. i hope for colin's sake your wrong with this guess. as a racer how could u just accept this? if colin went out & started winning, his value would go thru the roof! to say his job is just to support rossi & tow the co. line.... thats nonsense.
C'mon Frosty, do you honestly think Barichello, Massa or Irvine thought that they were gonna get the same shot as Schuey? Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93? I could go on, Schwantz was not known for keeping a team mate for long, esp once they started to come good on the Suzuki. HRC are the only guys who can afford to have a few challengers, and as we all know, the rider is secondary, because the bike that HRC build will be "perfect."
I think the difference is, that if you go to a smaller (non Honda) team, and you are the top rider, you will get a bike built to suit you, where as if you go to Honda, there will be loadsa similar bikes. No favourites.
If you are no2 at Yam, Suzuki whatever, then ultimately, you will be supporting the main guy.
The choice is up to the riders, do you play a part in the smaller team, or a walk on part for HRC.
Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 14 2007, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>C'mon Frosty, do you honestly think Barichello, Massa or Irvine thought that they were gonna get the same shot as Schuey? Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93? I could go on, Schwantz was not known for keeping a team mate for long, esp once they started to come good on the Suzuki. HRC are the only guys who can afford to have a few challengers, and as we all know, the rider is secondary, because the bike that HRC build will be "perfect."
I think the difference is, that if you go to a smaller (non Honda) team, and you are the top rider, you will get a bike built to suit you, where as if you go to Honda, there will be loadsa similar bikes. No favourites.
If you are no2 at Yam, Suzuki whatever, then ultimately, you will be supporting the main guy.
The choice is up to the riders, do you play a part in the smaller team, or a walk on part for HRC.
Pete
Sorry, forgot to add, some HRC guys get the warped clutch plates.
Pete
C'mon Frosty, do you honestly think Barichello, Massa or Irvine thought that they were gonna get the same shot as Schuey? Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93? I could go on, Schwantz was not known for keeping a team mate for long, esp once they started to come good on the Suzuki. HRC are the only guys who can afford to have a few challengers, and as we all know, the rider is secondary, because the bike that HRC build will be "perfect."
I think the difference is, that if you go to a smaller (non Honda) team, and you are the top rider, you will get a bike built to suit you, where as if you go to Honda, there will be loadsa similar bikes. No favourites.
If you are no2 at Yam, Suzuki whatever, then ultimately, you will be supporting the main guy.
The choice is up to the riders, do you play a part in the smaller team, or a walk on part for HRC.
Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 14 2007, 07:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>C'mon Frosty, do you honestly think Barichello, Massa or Irvine thought that they were gonna get the same shot as Schuey? Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93? I could go on, Schwantz was not known for keeping a team mate for long, esp once they started to come good on the Suzuki. HRC are the only guys who can afford to have a few challengers, and as we all know, the rider is secondary, because the bike that HRC build will be "perfect."
I think the difference is, that if you go to a smaller (non Honda) team, and you are the top rider, you will get a bike built to suit you, where as if you go to Honda, there will be loadsa similar bikes. No favourites.
If you are no2 at Yam, Suzuki whatever, then ultimately, you will be supporting the main guy.
The choice is up to the riders, do you play a part in the smaller team, or a walk on part for HRC.
Pete
Sorry, forgot to add, some HRC guys get the warped clutch plates.
Pete
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 14 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>do you honestly think Barichello, Massa or Irvine thought that they were gonna get the same shot as Schuey?
do we really want to compare motogp.... ooops... sorry pete, gps with fnone?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 14 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93?
unfortunately no. simply because we had no tv coverage of motorcycle racing of any kind in 93!
do we really want to compare motogp.... ooops... sorry pete, gps with fnone?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Feb 14 2007, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Did you see Roberts face when Cadalora passed Rainey at Donnington in 93?
unfortunately no. simply because we had no tv coverage of motorcycle racing of any kind in 93!
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 14 2007, 07:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>do we really want to compare motogp.... ooops... sorry pete, gps with fnone?
unfortunately no. simply because we had no tv coverage of motorcycle racing of any kind in 93!
Sadly, the team politics are pretty similar. BTW, thanks for calling it GP, motogp sounds crap!!!!
Pete
unfortunately no. simply because we had no tv coverage of motorcycle racing of any kind in 93!
Sadly, the team politics are pretty similar. BTW, thanks for calling it GP, motogp sounds crap!!!!
Pete
i think i've been misunderstood here. i'm not disputing that it's true, i just don't like it at all. i hate the thought that riders are willing to just act as support to the #1 guy in the team. i want to see them race balls out regaurdless of who thier teamate is. i just think it's nonsense
Its unfortunate but it has to happen. The other manufacturers don't have the capacity to put out 6 title worthy bikes. So they must put out a title contender and a supporting rider. That is their baest chance of winning the title, keeping the sponsors happy and selling more bikes.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 14 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i think i've been misunderstood here. i'm not disputing that it's true, i just don't like it at all. i hate the thought that riders are willing to just act as support to the #1 guy in the team. i want to see them race balls out regaurdless of who thier teamate is. i just think it's nonsense
i don't think you need to worry bout that...remember LeMans in 05?
i don't think you need to worry bout that...remember LeMans in 05?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IsraeliRacer @ Feb 14 2007, 08:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So the most convincing argument for employing Edwards is that Rossi likes him?
My argument says if you want a one man team, then get a one man team. But if you employ two riders, invest in both of them. I'm not saying its entirely Colin's fault, although in my opinion, at least partly it is, its also Yamaha, who have eyes only for Rossi, and seem to forget that they have another rider. However I believe that if Edwards raced as his potential seems to show, then even if he was to take race wins from Rossi and Yamaha no longer would want him, he'd have impressed enough to get a deal with another team. There is no question here of Colin being good enough, his testing and practice times show that, but he's too afraid of racing at his best, possibly showing Rossi up at a race or two, and losing his Yamaha seat.
But Eduards comes from Telefonica Movistar Honda ’04 teamed with Gibernau when they had great bikes. Maybe no so good when he was at Aprilia in ’03 teamed up with Haga. Anayway, when you say “he'd have impressed enough to get a deal with another team”, in that Telefonica Movistar Honda ’04 he ended up in 5th, but other than Rossi’s first place, Honda finished with 2 th, 3rd, 4th, 5th (Eduards) and 6th places in the Championship.
My argument says if you want a one man team, then get a one man team. But if you employ two riders, invest in both of them. I'm not saying its entirely Colin's fault, although in my opinion, at least partly it is, its also Yamaha, who have eyes only for Rossi, and seem to forget that they have another rider. However I believe that if Edwards raced as his potential seems to show, then even if he was to take race wins from Rossi and Yamaha no longer would want him, he'd have impressed enough to get a deal with another team. There is no question here of Colin being good enough, his testing and practice times show that, but he's too afraid of racing at his best, possibly showing Rossi up at a race or two, and losing his Yamaha seat.
But Eduards comes from Telefonica Movistar Honda ’04 teamed with Gibernau when they had great bikes. Maybe no so good when he was at Aprilia in ’03 teamed up with Haga. Anayway, when you say “he'd have impressed enough to get a deal with another team”, in that Telefonica Movistar Honda ’04 he ended up in 5th, but other than Rossi’s first place, Honda finished with 2 th, 3rd, 4th, 5th (Eduards) and 6th places in the Championship.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 14 2007, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>i don't think you need to worry bout that...remember LeMans in 05?
What when Edwards gave rossi a generous amount of room like a fool and gibernau got through as well. He should of got his elbows out and shut the door in vales face. We know he has it in him from the supurbike days. Unless he has lost his aggresive touch forever.
What when Edwards gave rossi a generous amount of room like a fool and gibernau got through as well. He should of got his elbows out and shut the door in vales face. We know he has it in him from the supurbike days. Unless he has lost his aggresive touch forever.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Feb 14 2007, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What when Edwards gave rossi a generous amount of room like a fool and gibernau got through as well. He should of got his elbows out and shut the door in vales face. We know he has it in him from the supurbike days. Unless he has lost his aggresive touch forever.
what race were you watching!?
what race were you watching!?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (frosty58 @ Feb 14 2007, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>
surly u joke. as a spectator, i as does anybody else, who follow this or any sport & pay good money to be entertained, can spout any ........ opinion, idea, take whatever i choose to on a forum created just for that pupose.
surely you jest. and dont call me shirley. hey I got into it with the guns issue. but hey thats what a forum is all about eh dudes.
surely you jest. and dont call me shirley. hey I got into it with the guns issue. but hey thats what a forum is all about eh dudes.
From what I can see, and we all got different takes on it, ther's only one reason why Colin is there, as a test rider. He's a fast guy and I always liked him in WSB but I have to question the wisdom of having him there other than developing the 800, Rossi surely can do that on his own. When I look at the timesheets in pre season, and see Edwards, Guintolli and Tamada, compared with the youthful crop of Honda riders I wonder do they give the sattelite bikes to whoever shows up first. I mean apart from Edwards, would anybody think Tamada was a good call? Guintolli is quick but there are better young riders in other championships. Yamaha need to wake up a bit in terms of nurturing future talent, big time. Colin will have us on the edge of our seats a couple of times this year for sure but there'll be other guys out there far hungrier.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (skidmark @ Feb 14 2007, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>From what I can see, and we all got different takes on it, ther's only one reason why Colin is there, as a test rider. He's a fast guy and I always liked him in WSB but I have to question the wisdom of having him there other than developing the 800, Rossi surely can do that on his own. When I look at the timesheets in pre season, and see Edwards, Guintolli and Tamada, compared with the youthful crop of Honda riders I wonder do they give the sattelite bikes to whoever shows up first. I mean apart from Edwards, would anybody think Tamada was a good call? Guintolli is quick but there are better young riders in other championships. Yamaha need to wake up a bit in terms of nurturing future talent, big time. Colin will have us on the edge of our seats a couple of times this year for sure but there'll be other guys out there far hungrier.
I agree.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 14 2007, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what race were you watching!?
Please tell me how you saw it. I seem to remember an inteview after when colinsaid something along the lines of "i saw valentino coming by and tried to give him some room but then i left too much and gibernau came through as well"
I agree.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yamahamer-AL @ Feb 14 2007, 09:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>what race were you watching!?
Please tell me how you saw it. I seem to remember an inteview after when colinsaid something along the lines of "i saw valentino coming by and tried to give him some room but then i left too much and gibernau came through as well"
