Catalunya Practice and Qualifying

33 Coupe said:

True, but if this new spec engine is supposed to be a step up, going back to the previous version if they are running short on engines later in the year will not bode well. If they have the reliability in the new engine, it may not be a problem. But i still think it is a little early on to be using a third engine regardless.

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If the new engine suddenly makes them a title contender, i agree. If they are still running around in 5-7th, going back to the old spec engine later in the year really wont have much affect. It will be interesting to see in the next few rounds if the new engine really has improved the Ducati by .5 seconds, or if todays qualifying was just circumstances. Up until now, they have been a consistent 1.2 to 1.4 behind the pole winner.Lets see if they can finish within 10 seconds of the winner in the next few rounds.Catalunya itself may not be the best track to judge their improvement since it is statistically Rossi's best track. It does add another dimension for the analytic fan, and thats a good thing.Should make for some interesting conversation between races

I DEMAND AN IMMEDIATE INVESTIGATION into the ADVANTAGES BY BIG RIDERS WITH LOTS OF HAIR. The SAFETY COMMISSION should look into requiring all riders to have their hair weighed!

Oh come on Jumkie !! what has the weight of his hair got to do with it



everyone knows more hair makes more static electricity, so Marco is cheating by using more electronicals ...... you know ....like when you used to put twice as many batteries in a model boat





Stoner used to do the same thing back in 07 ....... with his teeth!!

BarryMachine said:

Oh come on Jumkie !!

what has the weight of his hair got to do with it

everyone knows more hair makes more static electricity, so Marco is cheating by using more electronicals ...... you know ....like when you used to put twice as many batteries in a model boat





Stoner used to do the same thing back in 07 ....... with his teeth!!

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We have two firsts today. Marcos first pole, and barry made his first funny.









Congrats to you both.

33 Coupe said:

If Rossi is already on his third engine after 4 races he is really in the ..... And if this third engine is the new Burges/Rossi spec engine & he is still 8/10's off pole & 8/10's off Stoner's 2010 Catalunya quali pace he is absolutey screwed. Oh well! The boppers will say it's his best quali result this year, but 9th to 7th is hardly the improvement he would be expecting considering the longest shoulder injury in history isn't a factor any more.

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Hayden has said he doesn't believe the new engine will offer much in terms of lap times. It just makes the bike easier to ride. One fewer headache.

woody996 said:

Still an excuse.



Stoner does have the race pace but that doesn't mean much when there is an Italian with heart nearby, think Rossi Laguna seca.

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Really? Last year Stoner was only beaten by an Italian two times in the whole 2010 season.This year (excluding the instance where Rossi knocked him down) the only Italian to place in front of Stoner was Dovisioso. I'm half Italian and even I don't

buy into such jingoistic nonsense.



Think Rossi - 6th place at Catalunya.

michaelm said:

No need for excuses, well done to simoncelli, he really can put down a demon lap, and this makes for a more interesting race. As an observation, stoner doesn't seem to get much out of the softer tyres, and is often little faster than on the harder ones.



Stoner like anyone else has problems dealing with italian torpedoists, with or without hearts.

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Stoners comments were along the lines off - "the first soft didn't give them any edge grip so on the second one they adjusted the pressures and it was worse". He didn't seem to mind much because the pace he qualified at he can do as race pace on old tyres.



If Sic gets a good start I suspect Stoner will wait until half race distance and then take him on. Stoner prefers old tyres and lighter fuel load so he will conserve fuel and then wait for Sic's bike to go into fuel conservation mode and then blast by and gap him. Would be the safest way.



Ducati must be seriously worried now. They have spent a fortune, pulled out of there core championship (WSBK), brought in a new engine early and still achieving less than what Hayden was able to do last year. The satellite bikes still make up the back of the grid and DePuniet who was running just behind the factory bikes in 2010 is now a back marker and we are nearly 1/3 of the way into the championship. If their 2012 bike fails to perform in testing I see an exodus of sponsors and a much smaller budget for 2012 which will spell the end. The 2012 Honda is all ready practically ready to race by the look of it and the ducati just has a nice engine which potentially they have gone down a different displacement path that could be genius or a massive mistake.

Mental Anarchist said:

Stoners comments were along the lines off - "the first soft didn't give them any edge grip so on the second one they adjusted the pressures and it was worse". He didn't seem to mind much because the pace he qualified at he can do as race pace on old tyres.



If Sic gets a good start I suspect Stoner will wait until half race distance and then take him on. Stoner prefers old tyres and lighter fuel load so he will conserve fuel and then wait for Sic's bike to go into fuel conservation mode and then blast by and gap him. Would be the safest way.



Ducati must be seriously worried now. They have spent a fortune, pulled out of there core championship (WSBK), brought in a new engine early and still achieving less than what Hayden was able to do last year. The satellite bikes still make up the back of the grid and DePuniet who was running just behind the factory bikes in 2010 is now a back marker and we are nearly 1/3 of the way into the championship. If their 2012 bike fails to perform in testing I see an exodus of sponsors and a much smaller budget for 2012 which will spell the end. The 2012 Honda is all ready practically ready to race by the look of it and the ducati just has a nice engine which potentially they have gone down a different displacement path that could be genius or a massive mistake.

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You are talking about Casey Stoner, right? The guy that likes to check out and put down scorching laps from beginning to end? I would say what you are describing sounds more like Jorge's style.

Mental Anarchist said:

Ducati must be seriously worried now. They have spent a fortune, pulled out of there core championship (WSBK), brought in a new engine early and still achieving less than what Hayden was able to do last year. The satellite bikes still make up the back of the grid and DePuniet who was running just behind the factory bikes in 2010 is now a back marker and we are nearly 1/3 of the way into the championship. If their 2012 bike fails to perform in testing I see an exodus of sponsors and a much smaller budget for 2012 which will spell the end. The 2012 Honda is all ready practically ready to race by the look of it and the ducati just has a nice engine which potentially they have gone down a different displacement path that could be genius or a massive mistake.

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Read my signature Mental. You're almost there. Come into the light my friend.

MdubSTYLIE said:

You are talking about Casey Stoner, right? The guy that likes to check out and put down scorching laps from beginning to end? I would say what you are describing sounds more like Jorge's style.

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Have you not been watching lately? It is a good idea to reboot your perception every now and then because Stoner was pacing himself in Jerez, that was until your boy knocked him off, and has showed constraint and excellent race craft all season.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Read my signature Mental. You're almost there. Come into the light my friend.

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You are looking more and more prophetic ever week. I agree with you but seeing as I cop enough flack from the extremists as it is I haven't wanted to come out and say it.

Mental Anarchist said:

Have you not been watching lately? It is a good idea to reboot your perception every now and then because Stoner was pacing himself in Jerez, that was until your boy knocked him off, and has showed constraint and excellent race craft all season.

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So your example is a wet race which he showed constraint for ten laps? He didnt show much constraint for the remainder of that race. So you have proven nothing, try again.

MdubSTYLIE said:

You are talking about Casey Stoner, right? The guy that likes to check out and put down scorching laps from beginning to end? I would say what you are describing sounds more like Jorge's style.

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This discussion has been had before. According to Stoner, the Ducati required 100 percent effort at all times in order to work properly. Any slower and you were on the floor. He doesn't have to do that on the Honda, and I think Mental's assessment of Stoner's performances in the first third to half race distance is pretty accurate. He's been patient. His speed in the second half of the race doesn't lend so much to the fact that he's pushing 100 percent all the time as you seem to be suggesting (it would be pretty stupid of him to say he doesn't need to push 100 percent with the Honda, only to do so and make a mistake and wind up pitching away a win), as it says about Stoner's sheer pace.

MdubSTYLIE said:

So your example is a wet race which he showed constraint for ten laps? He didnt show much constraint for the remainder of that race. So you have proven nothing, try again.

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But Dub, MA is actually kind of correct as the CS we are seeing this year does seem different in his approach as he does not have a propensity to 'check out' as people say in the first half of the race.



Instead, whilst he may be in front he seems for content to manage a gap of around 2 seconds for the first half and thence increase that gap in latter stages of the race, something that he did not do on the Ducati (and we now know why). However, to date in 2011 he has not had to manage that gap against a charging rider but rather a faltering one so it will be interesting come the time when CS is trying to manage a gap to a challenger (as it were).



In 2011 the Stoner we have seen definitely does appear to have a different approach and IMO that is no doubt due to his confidence in the bike, as in contrast we have seen Rossi charge early (Qatar/Jerez) as he would seem to recognise that to be the best way to produce results for the Ducati.













Gaz

Keshav said:

Really? Last year Stoner was only beaten by an Italian two times in the whole 2010 season.This year (excluding the instance where Rossi knocked him down) the only Italian to place in front of Stoner was Dovisioso. I'm half Italian and even I don't

buy into such jingoistic nonsense.



Think Rossi - 6th place at Catalunya.

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I'm saying that it is possible for Simoncelli to pull something out of his arse like Rossi did at Leguna Seca. What is the jingoistic nonsense part of that? Please also tell me the relevance of Stoner losing to an Italian only two times last season. That supports my point that this may be one of the two times in 2011 that he is beaten by an Italian. You're getting worked up about nothing.

Austin said:

This discussion has been had before. According to Stoner, the Ducati required 100 percent effort at all times in order to work properly. Any slower and you were on the floor. He doesn't have to do that on the Honda, and I think Mental's assessment of Stoner's performances in the first third to half race distance is pretty accurate. He's been patient. His speed in the second half of the race doesn't lend so much to the fact that he's pushing 100 percent all the time as you seem to be suggesting (it would be pretty stupid of him to say he doesn't need to push 100 percent with the Honda, only to do so and make a mistake and wind up pitching away a win), as it says about Stoner's sheer pace.

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Lap times dont indicate that he is being patient and pushing harder at the end. I understand what you are saying about the ducati but thats not my point. Its a matter of the competition falling off pace more than him picking the pace up. The only races you all have to go on are Qatar and Le mans. And Qatar was not Casey picking up the pace if you both remember Dani fell off the pace because his arm fell asleep. And Le mans he lead all but lap one pushed hard until his competition went down. He rode like that before ducati as well. Like I said I understand he doesnt have to push like he did on the duc. I just dont think he is waiting and being patient and then picking it up at the end. And like I said the laps times dont indicate that either.

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So far race pace says:[/font]

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Stoner low 43

Lorenzo 43.5

Sic 43.5

Spies high 43

Rossi high 43

Dovi low 44

Hayden low 44

Crutch low 44



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Mental Anarchist said:

Ducati must be seriously worried now. They have spent a fortune, pulled out of there core championship (WSBK), brought in a new engine early and still achieving less than what Hayden was able to do last year. The satellite bikes still make up the back of the grid and DePuniet who was running just behind the factory bikes in 2010 is now a back marker and we are nearly 1/3 of the way into the championship. If their 2012 bike fails to perform in testing I see an exodus of sponsors and a much smaller budget for 2012 which will spell the end. The 2012 Honda is all ready practically ready to race by the look of it and the ducati just has a nice engine which potentially they have gone down a different displacement path that could be genius or a massive mistake.

JohnnyKnockdown' timestamp='1307223719' post='281121 said:

Read my signature Mental. You're almost there. Come into the light my friend.

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Read my signature Mental. You're almost there. Come into the light my friend.

Gaz said:

But Dub, MA is actually kind of correct as the CS we are seeing this year does seem different in his approach as he does not have a propensity to 'check out' as people say in the first half of the race.



Instead, whilst he may be in front he seems for content to manage a gap of around 2 seconds for the first half and thence increase that gap in latter stages of the race, something that he did not do on the Ducati (and we now know why). However, to date in 2011 he has not had to manage that gap against a charging rider but rather a faltering one so it will be interesting come the time when CS is trying to manage a gap to a challenger (as it were).



In 2011 the Stoner we have seen definitely does appear to have a different approach and IMO that is no doubt due to his confidence in the bike, as in contrast we have seen Rossi charge early (Qatar/Jerez) as he would seem to recognise that to be the best way to produce results for the Ducati.













Gaz

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Good stuff gaz. And I hope this is the race we finally get to see Marco put up a good fight from flag to flag. Spies and Lorenzo too, the (maybe) new engine seems to be working.

Jumkie said:

Read my signature Mental. You're almost there. Come into the light my friend.

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This race might pan out nicely. Looking at FP3 times, J-Lo's fastest and average 'race' laps are just fractional slower than Stoner's. The Furry Freak is about .5 behind; if it gets a good start, the other two may will problems (mostly psychological) passing.



Depending on how much Stoner is holding in reserve, I think J-Lo might have enough to make it a good race.



Spies will deny Sasquatch its first podium!







The fight for 5th will be good and will be contested by the Ducs, Crutchlow and Dovi.