Casey Stoner

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 10 2007, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I read the first 5 lines and decided to not continue reading. This looks like the talks of a frustrated ex-girlfriend. Good luck with Hayden by the way. I hope he beats Rossi, however, I doubt he will ever beat him again. Oh before I forget, have a nice day.

Talk about 'Education'... please step in TE! Or as we say in our country (yes Un educated country if you like)… Donkey talk about ears!

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No offence to donkeys!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ May 10 2007, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We are just "kidding" about Casey.

But you are right Rossi is an ugly ........

Jumkie... come on, did you have to use the word 'kid' somewhere again?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daniel @ May 11 2007, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>off topic: whats this now, kiddies play time?

on topic: that Stoner, god damn hes one ugly ....!

I thought we agreed not to use the ‘kid’ word, or am I off topic?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ May 11 2007, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dan, i disagree... best topic EVER!

Go on kids (ooppss )...Go on children, I'm enjoying this too much.

I'll go get more popcorns.

Let me spark the plug again for you mate!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>No, the Ducati is very fast in straight lines. The Ducati has always been fast in straight lines. But if you hear Rossi he doesn't praise Stoner for his achievements. He acts like it is normal Stoner beats him because his bike is faster. But Stoner is not the only one on a Ducati. Capirossi is far more experienced but he is achieving nothing on the Ducati. Even worse, according to the commentators of eurosport Capirossi is asking advice to Stoner about how to setup the bike. Stoner is just driving in a heroic way and beating Rossi on his own merits. Yes, the ducati is faster in straight lines, but the Yamaha is a lot better in the corners. And the corner advantages is a huge advantage. There are a lot of corners in a circuit. I saw Rossi close a gap of more than 1 second in just 1 fast corner, so don't come and tell me that this isn't an advantage compared with Stoners Ducati.

Wow, let’s see… Yamaha is great on the corners, but riding has nothing to do with it? Right… then how come no other Yamaha gets close or even wins any race, as, let’s say satellite Barros’ 4th? Not even on the corners! And history to back it up… There has not been a Yamaha winner (Factory or Satellite) other than Rossi for… uh, uh, uh… since 2002, nor as a couple of differents winners on Ducati or a bunch of them on a Honda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Even more, if you act like Rossi 95 % of the grid could complain about their disadvantage compared with Rossis bike. If you compare, for example, the straight line speed of Melandri and Elias with that of Rossi, you could start a huge complaint. In the previous race Rossis straight line speed was one of the 9 fastest. Melandris and Elias bike weren't top 9. But I didn't hear Rossi say:"Well, I drove good today, but of course my bike was faster in the straight lines than 80 % of the other bikes in the grid, and in the corners my Yamaha is by far the best bike."

Really, then why was Pedrosa overtaking Rossi on the straight of the first race with no other than Honda, which Elias and Melandri do ride, don’t they? Don’t just start comparing the top Factory bike with the satellites to get out, talk about Pedrosa’s and Rossi’s if you like!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The most hypocrite comment he made was about Pedrosas weigth. Rossi is 13 kg heavier than Pedrosa but he himself was 15 kg leighter than Gibernau. Did Gibernau ever complain about that ? Or did Barros complain, or does Hopkins complains ?

Well then half the grid and commentators that did mention Pedrosa’s weight are hypocrite to you I guess!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 03:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The only one always finding excuses and complaining when he gets beaten is Rossi. He gets beaten by Elias in a honest man to man fight and suddenly the reason is because Elias drives like a nutscase and should be send to Guantanamo Bay for a big punishment.

I really can't stand this guy. Like I said: "Go Stoner, beat the .... out of this guy and make him retire this season!!!"

Oh well, on this bases, what can I say… life is good having Elias there, after all he has contributed with a twitch reaction to Pedrosa’s fall and directly to Hayden's fall on behalf of Honda’s efforts!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dazza @ May 8 2007, 04:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I put it down to being CS being more hungry for the championship as opposed to Loris.

On the day I find it fair to assess that 60% was down to the Duke and the rest was all CS. Sound fair?

Sounds fairer Dazza, you seem like a fair person to me.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ May 8 2007, 09:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not convinced Valentino would beat Casey at the moment even if he were on a Ducati. Valentino is the master on the brakes, but like I say Casey is making his ground on the exit of 'the twisty bits'! Somehow the combination of Casey's riding style and the Ducati is allowing him to get the Ducati out of the corners like some sort of rocket ship!

Getting the drive out of corners is where Casey's advantage is, and I'm not convinced Valentino's riding style would create the same advantage.

I also reckon the furry 46 is a daft 'windtrap' to have on a part of the leathers specifically designed to improve airflow!!! That doesn't make any sense at all to me.

But Stoner is getting through at the middle of some straights and from then on rockets off! No at the start.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Conclusion: Go Casey, I have 100 % sympathy for you...

Well said ‘ToniElias’… ‘Go Casey’, but even Stoner is complaining about Elias, who’s contributed to the falls of Honda’s this year. So I don’t get you man, or maybe I do, I guess you are urged to dislike Rossi, because let’s say, he’s the best rider ever as you also said!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 8 2007, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And why was that ? Because Rossi was so wonderfull ? No, it was because of the disadvantage Stoner had on that track. But Stoner didn't whine like Rossi, did he ?

No mate, Stoner whined about Elias at FPs really!

In addition, ‘if’ and only ‘if’ there’s a great corner advantage for Yamaha a very skillful rider for cornering is needed, greatest riding abilities as you also see… nor as in a straight line skills are not the great difference or even needed, I have some fast friends on the road with a Yamaha R1, though not as good riders on track. The best I see about Stoner is that he has held the pressure ‘tops’, no arguing there. But to talk about straight line against corner skills is just giving it out easy for us mindless ‘Rossi’ cheer leaders. I mean if I publish a photo of an up guards bike on a straight line basically no one comes up and says: ‘Bloody hell with that rider’. Yet somehow I have published photos with elbows an inch or less off the ground at, let’s see ‘a corner’ and get all the admiration from bike lovers! Life is great, isn’t it?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 08:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wow, let’s see… Yamaha is great on the corners, but riding has nothing to do with it? Right… then how come no other Yamaha gets close or even wins any race, as, let’s say satellite Barros’ 4th? Not even on the corners! And history to back it up… There has not been a Yamaha winner (Factory or Satellite) other than Rossi for… uh, uh, uh… since 2002, nor as a couple of differents winners on Ducati or a bunch of them on a Honda.

The Yamaha was a pile of .... before Burgess fixed it, and since then only Edwards has really been given the proper kit. That'll be why Rossi is miles above other Yamaha riders, oh yeah hes also the best rider ever!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (somedamnwriter @ May 12 2007, 04:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Dan, i disagree... best topic EVER!

Go on kids (ooppss )...Go on children, I'm enjoying this too much.

I'll go get more popcorns.

You're right it's been fun, but this "kid" are pulling out of the off topic part now. Enough is enough.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 12 2007, 02:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The Yamaha was a pile of .... before Burgess fixed it, and since then only Edwards has really been given the proper kit. That'll be why Rossi is miles above other Yamaha riders, oh yeah hes also the best rider ever!

I can see that clearly Tom, nice of you to point out though. But I can also imagine you understanding my point about skills on turns and straights. Mate, when I got my actual bike I was fast out on the straight road the second day, but it took me like 5 years of track training and a fall to get the bloody knee pad down, after that I’ve fallen twice trying to improve it. I know I maybe a slow learner or more like a bit old, but anyway, I amaze with them riders and love the sport!


PS. You mates can call me as Jumkie has... "V" for Victor. After all VHMP are my initials, it was just like what I use getting into blogs without giving my name straight up.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can see that clearly Tom, nice of you to point out though. But I can also imagine you understanding my point about skills on turns and straights. Mate when I got my actual bike I was fast out on the straight road the second day, but it took me like 5 years of track training and a fall to get the bloody knee pad down, after that I’ve fallen twice trying to improve it. I know I maybe a slow learner or more like a bit old, but anyway, I amaze with them riders and love the sport!


Oh yeah, i understand your point totally, and i have spent plenty of time thinking about how the "skills" compare in the corners between Rossi and Stoner this year.

Think of it like this, they Yamaha corners very well (or so we are led to believe), so for Rossi to take a particular corner at a particular speed, it takes X amount of skill. For stoner on the (apparently) poorer handing Ducati to take that same corner at the same speed will take an amount of skill >X. But of course they do not corner at the same speed, Rossi is faster. But it is near impossible for us to judge if the riders are actually equally skilled and the difference is all bike, or if the difference is being made more by Rossi. Who knows, its possible the Ducati is worse than we think and in fact Stoner is using more "skill" than Rossi. Either way it is almost impossible to tell, so peoples opinion will differ wildly based on what they think of each rider.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 12 2007, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Oh yeah, i understand your point totally, and i have spent plenty of time thinking about how the "skills" compare in the corners between Rossi and Stoner this year.

Think of it like this, they Yamaha corners very well (or so we are led to believe), so for Rossi to take a particular corner at a particular speed, it takes X amount of skill. For stoner on the (apparently) poorer handing Ducati to take that same corner at the same speed will take an amount of skill >X. But of course they do not corner at the same speed, Rossi is faster. But it is near impossible for us to judge if the riders are actually equally skilled and the difference is all bike, or if the difference is being made more by Rossi. Who knows, its possible the Ducati is worse than we think and in fact Stoner is using more "skill" than Rossi. Either way it is almost impossible to tell, so peoples opinion will differ wildly based on what they think of each rider.

Yes, of course. And time will tell too with Stoner. I mean Rossi has had great achievements on a satellite in his rookie year and later a factory Honda, did almost the impossible in 2004 with his change to Yamaha, has done great with conditions in favor or against, and has a hell of a record to back him up, so skills are there without a doubt. Stoner has learned to handle pressure, no doubt, so I guess time will tell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, of course. And time will tell too with Stoner. I mean Rossi has had great achievements on a satellite in his rookie year and later a factory Honda, did almost the impossible in 2004 with his change to Yamaha, has done great with conditions in favor or against, and has a hell of a record to back him up, so skills are there without a doubt. Stoner has learned to handle pressure, no doubt, so I guess time will tell.


Yes, i would definitely hold Stoner's skill in high regard because he is clearly a massive talent, and his speed and skill have never been a question, just his maturity, concentration and mental strength. I'd say hes shown a good amount of promise, but like you say Rossi has the credentials to overshadow anyone. Time will tell.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 12 2007, 03:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, i would definitely hold Stoner's skill in high regard because he is clearly a massive talent, and his speed and skill have never been a question, just his maturity, concentration and mental strength. I'd say hes shown a good amount of promise, but like you say Rossi has the credentials to overshadow anyone. Time will tell.

So you and I kind of agree Tom. And what I can see on the debate is that meanings, translations between languages and culture create the problems a lot of the times generating misunderstood. Some examples are:

1.- Number One. To some countries is dishonorable not to wear it if you’re a Champion and to others is egocentric, also wearing your usual number always means luck (in fact Hayden’s got his ‘69’ inside that big ‘One’) or could even be seen as loyalty. Whatever the reason, there’s misunderstading.

2.- Out ridden. As the example you and I set about ‘riding in corners’ skills, and the not necessary ‘skillful needs’ on straights, I guess that in some languages and cultures ‘Out ridden’ means who got there first or more likely just who won. But as I kind of understand now, to other it comes from ‘ridding’ itself. Let me explain, as with the example of me (not that I am too good at it) and some friends, in track I manage to get the knee pad down (it’s a big achievement for someone that really started riding bikes at 33, at least I like believing that), and those friends that have the newest fastest bikes out there like R1s, for straight lines for them at least. Anyway, some would say that I can outride them, which now that I mention it, I don’t know if it is true, because they leave my parked with my old 600 bike if we are going on straight roads to go out for a ride. So ‘Out ridden’ could mean different things in different languages I guess. And then again this cannot be really measured as you said Tom.

3.- Well, I can keep on going about who’s to blame for some things they do or say and who isn’t. I mean, some cultures can see that if you help a sportsman conditions and set the right stage too much is not really making that person better at what he does, but in worse conditions has to put in a bigger effort and are getting the best of them, not just handed. Contrary to it, now I can also see that sometimes someone needs all the favorable conditions on their side to achieve the best they can. A matter of cultures or languages I guess, with no offence meant.

So the great thing is that there are languages and that even with their differences we can always try to communicate to get our opinions to each other better.

PS. I got off topic too much… Who gives a damn about ugliness in men, look at the babes this riders can get!
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I couldn't care less about the girl Stoner's got, i wanna ride his bike.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 06:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Talk about 'Education'... please step in TE! Or as we say in our country (yes Un educated country if you like)… Donkey talk about ears!

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No offence to donkeys!
Start talking about motos when they have invented the moto in your country. Untill that hasn't happy ... ssttt, un poko de silencio, por favor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Let me spark the plug again for you mate!
Wow, let’s see… Yamaha is great on the corners, but riding has nothing to do with it? Right… then how come no other Yamaha gets close or even wins any race, as, let’s say satellite Barros’ 4th? Not even on the corners! And history to back it up… There has not been a Yamaha winner (Factory or Satellite) other than Rossi for… uh, uh, uh… since 2002, nor as a couple of differents winners on Ducati or a bunch of them on a Honda.
Wasn't Edwards on the podium 2 or 3 races ago ? If such a second fiddle can be on podium, there must be something good with the bike. ps: Rossi took his best mechanics to Yamaha

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Really, then why was Pedrosa overtaking Rossi on the straight of the first race with no other than Honda, which Elias and Melandri do ride, don’t they? Don’t just start comparing the top Factory bike with the satellites to get out, talk about Pedrosa’s and Rossi’s if you like!

No, not at all. I don't have to compare Rossi with Pedrosa. Melandri, Elias, and some other people are fighting against Rossi (and Elias even beated him a race ago) on a bike with an inferior top speed than the Yamaha. I am not going to ignore that fact because it shows that even when you don't have the fastest bike, you can win. If Rossi explains his lost against Stoner with his lack of top speed, than can he explain why Elias, who has a bike with significant less top speed, has beaten him ?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well then half the grid and commentators that did mention Pedrosa’s weight are hypocrite to you I guess!

Yes, indeed. But the commentators are talking about this because of riders like Rossi and Nieto who are always mentioning this. You can just google and look up Rossis, Danis and Setes weight. It is just a fact that Sete was 15 kg heavier than Rossi, and Rossi is 13 kg heavier than Dani. So if Dani beats Rossi, it is because of his weight ? So maybe Rossi beated Sete also because of his weight. Strangely, I never heard Rossi complain about his weight advantage compared to Sete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ May 12 2007, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Well said ‘ToniElias’… ‘Go Casey’, but even Stoner is complaining about Elias, who’s contributed to the falls of Honda’s this year. So I don’t get you man, or maybe I do, I guess you are urged to dislike Rossi, because let’s say, he’s the best rider ever as you also said!

Well, doesn't it shows that I wouldn't dislike Rossi if he wasn't such a pig ? I admit he is the best rider ever and I like his riding style. How can anyone be such an hypocrite to say Elias drove like a nuts while he did even worse against Hopkins in the same race (even before Elias hit him). Elias saw this pass because he was behind both. Let's say he learned his 'dangerous' passing on that particular moment from the master himself.

On topic: Stoner is an ugly peace of ..., but still "Go Stoner"

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 14 2007, 11:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. If Rossi explains his lost against Stoner with his lack of top speed, than can he explain why Elias, who has a bike with significant less top speed, has beaten him ?

2. Strangely, I never heard Rossi complain about his weight advantage compared to Sete

1. He can explain it, remember that tire that didn't work properly? It is debatable if Elias would have beaten him in that race anyway or not, but it makes no difference. Rossi finished tenth with a ...... tire, and fair play to him for trying.

2. No rider complains about there advantages, ever.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2007, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. He can explain it, remember that tire that didn't work properly? It is debatable if Elias would have beaten him in that race anyway or not, but it makes no difference. Rossi finished tenth with a ...... tire, and fair play to him for trying.

2. No rider complains about there advantages, ever.

1. Where does that "Elias has significantly lower top speed tan Rossi" in anyway?
3km/h at Istanbull
1km/h at Shanghai in QP.
Significant?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 14 2007, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Where does that "Elias has significantly lower top speed tan Rossi" in anyway?
3km/h at Istanbull
1km/h at Shanghai in QP.
Significant?

I don't know what your talking about, i never mentioned their relative top speeds, in fact i would say the Honda was faster than the Yamaha is

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. He can explain it, remember that tire that didn't work properly? It is debatable if Elias would have beaten him in that race anyway or not, but it makes no difference. Rossi finished tenth with a ...... tire, and fair play to him for trying.
On the moment he got passed, his tyres worked perfectly.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2007, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. No rider complains about there advantages, ever.

Logically they don't. But it still stays hypocritical to use Pedrosas weight as an advantage while he maybe has beaten Sete because the guy was even heavier than him. The same with blaming Elias for something he did in the same race to Hopkins.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Babelfish @ May 14 2007, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. Where does that "Elias has significantly lower top speed tan Rossi" in anyway?
3km/h at Istanbull
1km/h at Shanghai in QP.
Significant?
Could you provide me a source with Eliases and Rossi's top speed in all the races they raced this year ? Thank you in advance.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ToniElias @ May 14 2007, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.On the moment he got passed, his tyres worked perfectly.

2.Logically they don't. But it still stays hypocritical to use Pedrosas weight as an advantage while he maybe has beaten Sete because the guy was even heavier than him. The same with blaming Elias for something he did in the same race to Hopkins.

1. that depends a lot on who you ask.

2. I do actually agree that what he has said can be a little but hypocritical, but its not that simple. How much of it can you put down to bitching and how much of it is down to addressing issues that are large in the medi (such as weight). and what about the allowance you need to make for all riders looking for reasons they have been beaten, because it is essential for their mental strength not to feel like they have been beaten.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2007, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. that depends a lot on who you ask.

Anyway, he got beaten and he didn't like it. The fact he didn't like it, is a clear sign he was 'owned' on that pass and that hurted him.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 14 2007, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2. I do actually agree that what he has said can be a little but hypocritical, but its not that simple. How much of it can you put down to bitching and how much of it is down to addressing issues that are large in the medi (such as weight). and what about the allowance you need to make for all riders looking for reasons they have been beaten, because it is essential for their mental strength not to feel like they have been beaten.

Physical strength but still very hypocritical. I never heard Pedrosa cry that he has a weight disadvantage when it rains. And that is really a big disadvantage for him.