Can Ducati get two wins in 2016??

Keshav · Dec 25, 2015

Merry Christmas to friends, enemies, frenemies and everything in-between!

J4rn0 · Dec 25, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Ah but given that Loris Capirossi carried over from 2006 to 2007 on the Ducati, his results were much worse than they were in 2006. He went from a 3rd in the championship to a 7th. Stoner won more grands prix for Ducati in 2007 than the prior 4 seasons combined. The Ducati only became a legitimate world title contender because of Stoner.

Sure it's not outlandish thinking to believe they will win GP's without Stoner, but at this point, the deck has been so stacked against them, that if they do not win a GP, it wouldn't be entirely shocking either.

They will. The trend is positive for them, and I know they are working well. 2016 is going to be a good year for Ducati.

Jumkie · Dec 25, 2015

J4rn0 said:
They will. The trend is positive for them, and I know they are working well. 2016 is going to be a good year for Ducati.

povol · Dec 25, 2015

Keshav said:
a b , it's only a matter of time before a rider of Lorenzo or Marquez's caliber comes along. He's out there; we just don't recognize him as yet. People were predicting great things for Simoncelli and he never came close to realizing the potential that everyone said he had. Remember, when Marquez was in Moto 2 the general consensus was that Honda/Repsol was somehow cheating and nobody was close to predicting what Marquez would accomplish in his first two seasons in the premier class. Very few had a high opinion of Stoner back in 2006. People laughed at him. Joke was on us. Another of his caliber will come along and hopefully not be sucked up into the Honda or Yamaha ranks. I think it is just a matter of time.

As far as Marquez, no, i dont think many had him pegged as champion his rookie year, but that kid had stardom written all over him from his first Moto2 season. Simoncelli was coming of age when he got killed. Stoner was not a hidden talent in 2006. Anyone who watched the sport could tell this kid had big time speed, sitting on poles and almost winning races against much better bikes and tires. In the lower classes, he gave Lorenzo and Pedrosa fits on inferior equipment.

JPSLotus · Dec 27, 2015

povol said:
As far as Marquez, no, i dont think many had him pegged as champion his rookie year, but that kid had stardom written all over him from his first Moto2 season. Simoncelli was coming of age when he got killed. Stoner was not a hidden talent in 2006. Anyone who watched the sport could tell this kid had big time speed, sitting on poles and almost winning races against much better bikes and tires. In the lower classes, he gave Lorenzo and Pedrosa fits on inferior equipment.

Yep, and Simoncelli's biggest issue was what was going on in between his ears.

He had the speed to compete with the top guys. Heck, he had more speed than Dovi most of the time in spite of him being on that third factory RCV. And yes I know the Honda that Simoncelli had was far better than any other satellite Honda, but he had the talent. Too bad, we might have been spared the last few years of Dani on the second RCV had things been different.

Keshav · Dec 27, 2015

povol said:
As far as Marquez, no, i dont think many had him pegged as champion his rookie year, but that kid had stardom written all over him from his first Moto2 season. Simoncelli was coming of age when he got killed. Stoner was not a hidden talent in 2006. Anyone who watched the sport could tell this kid had big time speed, sitting on poles and almost winning races against much better bikes and tires. In the lower classes, he gave Lorenzo and Pedrosa fits on inferior equipment.

I guess you could say Simoncelli was coming of age - tho - I think once a rider has come up through the previous two series, he's a racing veteran - tho not experienced on the big bikes. I never thought he had the discipline to calm down and ride a smart race. Sad that we'll never know.

Prior to 2006 I was unaware of Stoner - as I'd stopped following the sport for a number of years when I was recuperating from injuries. 2006 was the year I started to follow racing again. Gotta go and look those 250 races up and watch them.

Keshav · Dec 27, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Yep, and Simoncelli's biggest issue was what was going on in between his ears.

He had the speed to compete with the top guys. Heck, he had more speed than Dovi most of the time in spite of him being on that third factory RCV. And yes I know the Honda that Simoncelli had was far better than any other satellite Honda, but he had the talent. Too bad, we might have been spared the last few years of Dani on the second RCV had things been different.

Can't argue against Simoncelli being talented - but I think his size would have continued to work against him as long as they were riding the 800s. I think he could have had a high degree of success if he were able to settle for a lot of 2nd and 3d places and collect points. But with Lorenzo and Stoner at the top of their game, I can't see him ever getting more than 2nd overall.

I seriously doubt that Repsol would ever have replaced their Spanish rider with the ginormous Italian.

Dr No · Dec 28, 2015

Keshav said:
Prior to 2006 I was unaware of Stoner - as I'd stopped following the sport for a number of years when I was recuperating from injuries. 2006 was the year I started to follow racing again. Gotta go and look those 250 races up and watch them.

A mate was sharing the same paddocks as CS when he was racing in the UK. (Mate was doing 600 proddy and Endurance? Anyhoo...)
The guy was thought a phenomenon then. Matey would go and watch his races. Again hearsay, but CS would flog guys on his first visit to a circuit. Talent.
This was on a pretty average bike in a paddock that had full Semi trailers with 2 spare 125s for some talentless guy that shouldve been club racing.
(strangely for all his admiration of CS back then, he became a "hater" during CS's MotoGP years)

yamaka46 · Dec 28, 2015

JPSLotus said:
Yep, and Simoncelli's biggest issue was what was going on in between his ears.

He had the speed to compete with the top guys. Heck, he had more speed than Dovi most of the time in spite of him being on that third factory RCV. And yes I know the Honda that Simoncelli had was far better than any other satellite Honda, but he had the talent. Too bad, we might have been spared the last few years of Dani on the second RCV had things been different.

Meaning? MS58 was young and impetuous, but we have seen that innumerate times before and those riders (JL for instance) have matured given time. MS was not given time. I don't think that the evidence bears out your implication that he wasn't bright or mature enough in comparison to others at a similar time in their career.

Keshav · Dec 28, 2015

yamaka46 said:
Meaning? MS58 was young and impetuous, but we have seen that innumerate times before and those riders (JL for instance) have matured given time. MS was not given time. I don't think that the evidence bears out your implication that he wasn't bright or mature enough in comparison to others at a similar time in their career.

It's only a gut feeling or intuition, if you will, but I felt the same. Some riders seem to be constitutionally incapable of learning from their mistakes. Look at Bautista, it took him years to settle down and by then it was too late.

povol · Dec 28, 2015

Dr No said:
(strangely for all his admiration of CS back then, he became a "hater" during CS's MotoGP years)

That can mean only one thing, he was a bopper. Boppers are incapable of liking Stoner.

Dr No · Dec 28, 2015

povol said:
That can mean only one thing, he was a bopper. Boppers are incapable of liking Stoner.

Yeah. Sadly.
Which goes to show how deep it runs.

paparazzo · Dec 28, 2015

povol said:
That can mean only one thing, he was a bopper. Boppers are incapable of liking Stoner.

Wrong again Gramps.....I'm a bopper and I respect and loved the way Stoner ride. I'd also love to see him come back in 2016, but I suspect current vicious competition will see him no higher than 6th place possibly.

Stoner was the biggest whinger champion in GP history. How can this be denied? Everything was a problem, even a backmarker following too close in a test. Response was Stoner bashing his bike against the offender. How dare he ride behind him like that. Extreme response was eventual retirement.

Rossi gets the exact same move pulled on him by MM @ Seca in 13 as he did to Casey in 08, yet he had zero problems with it, shaking hands and embrace Marc @ parc ferme and congratulating him during the press conference. Yet Rossi is a villain, poor sport, muderer, dangerous rider.. Heaven forbid you or the rest of the bitter jealous horde in here give Rossi the benefit of any doubts. Some of the stuff invented here is so preposterously stupid it is laughable.

GTFO

#22 · Dec 28, 2015

paparazzo said:
Stoner was the biggest whinger champion in GP history. How can this be denied? Everything was a problem, even a backmarker following too close in a test. Response was Stoner bashing his bike against the offender. How dare he ride behind him like that. Extreme response was eventual retirement.

*Sigh*

Rossi gets the exact same move pulled on him by MM @ Seca in 13 as he did to Casey in 08, yet he had zero problems with it, shaking hands and embrace Marc @ parc ferme and congratulating him during the press conference. Yet Rossi is a villain, poor sport, muderer, dangerous rider.. Heaven forbid you or the rest of the bitter jealous horde in here give Rossi the benefit of any doubts. Some of the stuff invented here is so preposterously stupid it is laughable.

As are you comments about Stoner, so it goes both ways.

michaelm · Dec 28, 2015

paparazzo said:
Wrong again Gramps.....I'm a bopper and I respect and loved the way Stoner ride. I'd also love to see him come back in 2016, but I suspect current vicious competition will see him no higher than 6th place possibly.

Stoner was the biggest whinger champion in GP history. How can this be denied? Everything was a problem, even a backmarker following too close in a test. Response was Stoner bashing his bike against the offender. How dare he ride behind him like that. Extreme response was eventual retirement.

Rossi gets the exact same move pulled on him by MM @ Seca in 13 as he did to Casey in 08, yet he had zero problems with it, shaking hands and embrace Marc @ parc ferme and congratulating him during the press conference. Yet Rossi is a villain, poor sport, muderer, dangerous rider.. Heaven forbid you or the rest of the bitter jealous horde in here give Rossi the benefit of any doubts. Some of the stuff invented here is so preposterously stupid it is laughable.

GTFO

The remainder of your post casts doubt on the sincerity of the first part of it, although that is perhaps not particularly germane in the overall scheme of things.

Stoner was what he was, including being a rider spectacular to watch and faster than most, but is retired now and quite unlikely to race again.

His record including on what was probably substandard equipment for several years of his premier class career against strong opposition is rather good.

He had his faults which it is your prerogative to criticise if you wish, just as others will criticise Rossi where they discern faults in regard to him; I wouldn't have thought calling him a whinger in comparison to VR is a strong argument after recent events though.

povol · Dec 28, 2015

paparazzo said:
Wrong again Gramps.....I'm a bopper and I respect and loved the way Stoner ride. I'd also love to see him come back in 2016, but I suspect current vicious competition will see him no higher than 6th place possibly.

Stoner was the biggest whinger champion in GP history. How can this be denied? Everything was a problem, even a backmarker following too close in a test. Response was Stoner bashing his bike against the offender. How dare he ride behind him like that. Extreme response was eventual retirement.

Rossi gets the exact same move pulled on him by MM @ Seca in 13 as he did to Casey in 08, yet he had zero problems with it, shaking hands and embrace Marc @ parc ferme and congratulating him during the press conference. Yet Rossi is a villain, poor sport, muderer, dangerous rider.. Heaven forbid you or the rest of the bitter jealous horde in here give Rossi the benefit of any doubts. Some of the stuff invented here is so preposterously stupid it is laughable.

GTFO[/QUOTE ]

it is obvious to anyone reading your post that you detest Stoner, so you have been pegged dead on. You would like to see Stoner come back because you think Rossi could somehow redeem himself from the ... kicking Stoner gave him during his career. Laguna 08 and Laguna 13 are nowhere near identical moves. Marquez cleared Rossi at the top of the corkscrew, while Rossi cut the corner and would have crashed out Stoner had he not taken an evasive maneuver at the exit of the corkscrew. I saw a guy in 2015 that took whining to levels Stoner never dreamed of. You got one thing right in your post, you are a bopper.

Iowegian · Dec 29, 2015

To be on topic for a moment:

I think Ducati stands a reasonable chance. The support all of the satellite teams receive fro Gigi and co also means there is a lot of data that can be analyzed and put to use. I certainly think Joe has it in him to put out a winning performance, and on a good day maybe Dovi.

paparazzo · Dec 29, 2015

povol said:
paparazzo said:

Wrong again Gramps.....I'm a bopper and I respect and loved the way Stoner ride. I'd also love to see him come back in 2016, but I suspect current vicious competition will see him no higher than 6th place possibly.

Stoner was the biggest whinger champion in GP history. How can this be denied? Everything was a problem, even a backmarker following too close in a test. Response was Stoner bashing his bike against the offender. How dare he ride behind him like that. Extreme response was eventual retirement.

Rossi gets the exact same move pulled on him by MM @ Seca in 13 as he did to Casey in 08, yet he had zero problems with it, shaking hands and embrace Marc @ parc ferme and congratulating him during the press conference. Yet Rossi is a villain, poor sport, muderer, dangerous rider.. Heaven forbid you or the rest of the bitter jealous horde in here give Rossi the benefit of any doubts. Some of the stuff invented here is so preposterously stupid it is laughable.

GTFO[/QUOTE ]

it is obvious to anyone reading your post that you detest Stoner, so you have been pegged dead on. You would like to see Stoner come back because you think Rossi could somehow redeem himself from the ... kicking Stoner gave him during his career. Laguna 08 and Laguna 13 are nowhere near identical moves. Marquez cleared Rossi at the top of the corkscrew, while Rossi cut the corner and would have crashed out Stoner had he not taken an evasive maneuver at the exit of the corkscrew. I saw a guy in 2015 that took whining to levels Stoner never dreamed of. You got one thing right in your post, you are a bopper.

Click to expand...

Any detestation for Stoner has come straight from your detestation of Rossi. Only fair Gramps. Your bitterness and jealousy is rubbing off on me. And you are quite the comical to think I want Stoner to come back so Rossi can redeem himself, I don't think a guy with 9 titles and 110 wins has to redeem for anything, certainly not to a dozen faceless haters on faceless forum. Your New Year resolution should be to stop being so jealous in 2016. You will live longer.

michaelm · Dec 29, 2015

paparazzo said:
povol said:

Any detestation for Stoner has come straight from your detestation of Rossi. Only fair Gramps. Your bitterness and jealousy is rubbing off on me. And you are quite the comical to think I want Stoner to come back so Rossi can redeem himself, I don't think a guy with 9 titles and 110 wins has to redeem for anything, certainly not to a dozen faceless haters on faceless forum. Your New Year resolution should be to stop being so jealous in 2016. You will live longer.

Click to expand...

Giving yourself away Paparazzo. "Whinger" is pretty much Australian idiom, not North American let alone Quebecois.

I absolutely agree Rossi's career record left him in no need of redemption, hence why it is doubly puzzling that he devoted the end of the 2015 season to trashing his legacy.

yamaka46 · Dec 29, 2015

michaelm said:
paparazzo said:

Giving yourself away Paparazzo. "Whinger" is pretty much Australian idiom, not North American let alone Quebecois.

I absolutely agree Rossi's career record left him in no need of redemption, hence why it is doubly puzzling that he devoted the end of the 2015 season to trashing his legacy.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I'd go so far as "trashing". Maybe not the stuff of proper hard legends such as Doohan, and defo a bit of a meltdown scenario, but VR is Italian. The Latin nations are renowned for their histrionics so maybe we can give him a pass when you also factor in that the old boy is 36 and might have had another WC but for those pesky kids

Can Ducati get two wins in 2016??

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