Can Ducati get two wins in 2016??

yamaka46 said:

Who cares? It'd be amazing and here's hoping!

Mind you it'd be interesting to see how him and MM get along on the racetrack if MM tries moves like Assen....

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About 500 bazillion Rossi fans would care what Rossi says and they would repeat whatever came out of his mouth. So if Rossi went out of his way to be cordial about Stoner's appearance for whatever magical reason (because I don't think he would be) then it might obviate the yellow cult's need to berate him.

It would be amazing to me if Rossi were to make a public announcement to his fans saying something like, "Having Stoner back is a good thing. Please don't say anything bad about him, and refrain from saying 'Stoner the Moaner.'" This will never never never happen, I know. But it would be amazing to see his fans' reaction. The wires in the mind connecting the hatred-center to the mouth would short-circuit.

AntG said:

Not with Dovi they won't, that guy spent 3 years on a factory Honda taking a solitary win while his teammates finished 2nd(2010) and 1st(2011) in the championship.

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Dovi is the rider you want when developing a bike. His merits also in developing the Honda in the right direction are well known. Same for Ducati now. No wonder Suzuki also wanted him. For winning races and titles, maybe there are less technical-analytical but faster riders. Not that Dovi is slow, by any means, but he seems to be lacking that inner fire that can push a talented rider to the top level.

Iannone on the other hand has that kind of fire in him, and he has grown a lot. And, he liked the Michelin immediately. If the 2016 Ducati can actually improve on the current one, he could not only win races but even be a title contender in 2016. He's that good.

kurre said:

About 500 bazillion Rossi fans would care what Rossi says and they would repeat whatever came out of his mouth. So if Rossi went out of his way to be cordial about Stoner's appearance for whatever magical reason (because I don't think he would be) then it might obviate the yellow cult's need to berate him.

It would be amazing to me if Rossi were to make a public announcement to his fans saying something like, "Having Stoner back is a good thing. Please don't say anything bad about him, and refrain from saying 'Stoner the Moaner.'" This will never never never happen, I know. But it would be amazing to see his fans' reaction. The wires in the mind connecting the hatred-center to the mouth would short-circuit.

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I hate to make a Hitler reference but Rossi speaking in front of his fans, the only thing I can picture is a Nazi rally. The other issue I have with this is that all Stoner haters get lumped into the category of blindless yellow stain, and thats just not the case. As many people can't stand Rossi's flamboyant ....-like attitude. There are just as many people who can't stand Stoners angry ........ ..... attitude. They are polar opposites and so are their fans. I will always miss Stoner, but he's not coming back. Andre Iannone will be the next winner on a duc within the next two years.

Jesus Jarno. Your shot out of a cannon this week.
I'm going to try to get back to talk about the topic that was ruined once again.
Every year this same topic is brought up. Im always surprised that so many people still believe Ducati will have some relevance given their track record without Stoner. Duc is a great company but they dont have the endless funds and unparalled wizardry of Japanese engineers. There's a reason why the name of every TV and electronic in your house ends with a consonant and not a vowel. Ducatis Lost its chance to be competitive when the electronics era kicked in. They can't compete with magical transmissions infinite budgets and engineers that have been producing the worlds most sophisticated electronics for 30 years.
This is not a knock on to Ducati which is a great company and masters of the architecturally,engineering of machinery. The problem is the playing field is no longer about architecture, it's all about electronics and gizmos now
They could win when the electronics were about wrist control and brain impulses. Those days are long gone

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Jesus Jarno. Your shot out of a cannon this week.
I'm going to try to get back to talk about the topic that was ruined once again.
Every year this same topic is brought up. Im always surprised that so many people still believe Ducati will have some relevance given their track record without Stoner. Duc is a great company but they dont have the endless funds and unparalled wizardry of Japanese engineers. There's a reason why the name of every TV and electronic in your house ends with a consonant and not a vowel. Ducatis Lost its chance to be competitive when the electronics era kicked in. They can't compete with magical transmissions infinite budgets and engineers that have been producing the worlds most sophisticated electronics for 30 years.
This is not a knock on to Ducati which is a great company and masters of the architecturally,engineering of machinery. The problem is the playing field is no longer about architecture, it's all about electronics and gizmos now
They could win when the electronics were about wrist control and brain impulses. Those days are long gone

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I think the fact that they let an autistic kid design the electronic package will play into the hands of ducati just a little bit. What I mean is it will take a little of the edge away from the big 2 and a 1/2. Philip Island next season is Andres shot to win a race. If his bike is set up like it was this year and the others are a little slower because of tires and electos, Andre will check out.

Good to see this thread get back on topic, I'll enjoy it while we can. I'm hoping this thread, which was being ruined in the usual way, can be salvaged.

Kurre I bet Rossi will make a nice statement about Stoner, but it will sound contrived, Mdub makes a great point, even though most Rossi fans dislike Stoner it's not a prerequisite. For whatever reason there are many who are rubbed the wrong way by Casey and I accept it. Frankly I'm kinda the brown sheep amongst my friends in this regard.

J4rn0, I don't think it's been discussed why Dovi had such a bad year. I rate him highly. Dovi is many things but one that goes unnoticed is his willingness to fight for position, this year he wasn't able; however if you revisit Qatar 15 you will see the Dovi I think is still there under his helmet. Iannone is great but he still has to beat the top 3 on any given Sunday, that remains a daunting task. I think if Iannone was teammates with Marquez we would see the Iannone with results to back up his motivation.

JKD, fantastic post man. I agree, Ducati just can't go toe to toe with Honda and Yamaha for all the reasons you mentioned. Except this coming year I think people feel they may have a chance since all the "factories" (I still laugh at this designation) will be required to use the standard ECU which may give Ducati hope of more regular podiums (as Mdub says, it will take the edge off). But it's still a leap for wins. Iannone may be a special rider but not special enough to overcome the Ducati disadvantages, which in a game at this extreme level as you say, tiny advancements accumulate. Iannone also has a tendency to crash not to mention Ducati's legendary reliability issues. After Phillip Island this year what happened the next two races? We were all salivating thinking what Iannone was going to do after .... heated up. Sepang he goes out on a mechanical Valencia he crashes out unceremoniously. The three places I think Ducati have a shot are: Qatar, Mugello, Phillip Island. Ok, however, guess who also kills at these tracks? Oh yeah the RCV and the M1. And each of those will have Marquez and Lorenzo. I'm with you JKD, the only way Ducati win a race is if something happens to the top 3 simultaneously.

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Jesus Jarno. Your shot out of a cannon this week.
I'm going to try to get back to talk about the topic that was ruined once again.
Every year this same topic is brought up. Im always surprised that so many people still believe Ducati will have some relevance given their track record without Stoner. Duc is a great company but they dont have the endless funds and unparalled wizardry of Japanese engineers. There's a reason why the name of every TV and electronic in your house ends with a consonant and not a vowel. Ducatis Lost its chance to be competitive when the electronics era kicked in. They can't compete with magical transmissions infinite budgets and engineers that have been producing the worlds most sophisticated electronics for 30 years.
This is not a knock on to Ducati which is a great company and masters of the architecturally,engineering of machinery. The problem is the playing field is no longer about architecture, it's all about electronics and gizmos now
They could win when the electronics were about wrist control and brain impulses. Those days are long gone

Click to expand...

Many now overlook the fact that Ducati was winning GPs before Stoner (2 wins in 2005 and 3 in 2006), and could have contended for the title in 2006, stopped only by bad luck. It is not so outlandish thinking that they will win GPs also after Stoner. Actually I even hope they will win GPs again with Stoner himself, but that's me.

Electronics applied to motorcycle racing is not the obstacle, it's a technology Ducati understands pretty well. Their 2007 engine had superior electronic mapping allowing for high power and low consumption, which left the Japanese engineers puzzled. But like with any R&D, funding is the key. Ducati Corse suffered from a lack of funds (and management) in 2008-2012, not from a lack of engineering skills.

J4rn0 said:

Many now overlook the fact that Ducati was winning GPs before Stoner (2 wins in 2005 and 3 in 2006), and could have contended for the title in 2006, stopped only by bad luck. It is not so outlandish thinking that they will win GPs also after Stoner. Actually I even hope they will win GPs again with Stoner himself, but that's me.

Electronics applied to motorcycle racing is not the obstacle, it's a technology Ducati understands pretty well. Their 2007 engine had superior electronic mapping allowing for high power and low consumption, which left the Japanese engineers puzzled. But like with any R&D, funding is the key. Ducati Corse suffered from a lack of funds (and management) in 2008-2012, not from a lack of engineering skills.

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Then: Exclusive development with Bridgestone while their rivals were on Michelins.

Now: Michelins for everybody.


Try, if you can, to understand all the ramifications.

Jumkie said:

Then: Exclusive development with Bridgestone while their rivals were on Michelins.
Now: Michelins for everybody.
Try, if you can, to understand all the ramifications.

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Ducati may have enjoyed a tire developed on their bike until 2008, but that was just enough to put them on par with the others. Michelins were developed for Honda and Yamaha, with SNS and all, so there was no hope for them going that way. There was a reason why also factory Suzukis and Kawasakis were on Bstones and not Michelins...

Now it will be Michelin for everybody, great. Time will tell who will adapt better. About exploring the "ramifications" of your fuzzy statements, frankly, who cares...? If you really have a point, it' on you to make it clear.

J4rn0 said:

Ducati may have enjoyed a tire developed on their bike until 2008, but that was just enough to put them on par with the others. Michelins were developed for Honda and Yamaha, with SNS and all, so there was no hope for them going that way. There was a reason why also factory Suzukis and Kawasakis were on Bstones and not Michelins...

Now it will be Michelin for everybody, great. Time will tell who will adapt better. About exploring the "ramifications" of your fuzzy statements, frankly, who cares...? If you really have a point, it' on you to make it clear.

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You really do need people to spell it out don't you. Jesus man.

You said Ducati were winning 'before', then I pointed out that was a time when they worked with Bridgestone to develop a winning package. Thats IS why they were winning genius. Now they do NOT have that dynamic going for them! Do you think it's coincidence that when they worked with Bridgestone it resulted in 2005 to 07 winning races, in 06-07 contenders and winners of a title, then all that went to .... steadily when that relationship with the tire manufacturer was destroyed? That relationship was so valuable to their hopes of competition that they even wanted to start a new exclusive development relationship with Michelin, you know, that tire company that your hero threw under the bus. That tire company that your hero said he would rather QUIT the sport if he was made to suffer competing with those ...... French tires.

Well one can hope he keeps his word for 2016...

J4rn0 said:

Many now overlook the fact that Ducati was winning GPs before Stoner (2 wins in 2005 and 3 in 2006), and could have contended for the title in 2006, stopped only by bad luck. It is not so outlandish thinking that they will win GPs also after Stoner. Actually I even hope they will win GPs again with Stoner himself, but that's me.

Electronics applied to motorcycle racing is not the obstacle, it's a technology Ducati understands pretty well. Their 2007 engine had superior electronic mapping allowing for high power and low consumption, which left the Japanese engineers puzzled. But like with any R&D, funding is the key. Ducati Corse suffered from a lack of funds (and management) in 2008-2012, not from a lack of engineering skills.

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Ah but given that Loris Capirossi carried over from 2006 to 2007 on the Ducati, his results were much worse than they were in 2006. He went from a 3rd in the championship to a 7th. Stoner won more grands prix for Ducati in 2007 than the prior 4 seasons combined. The Ducati only became a legitimate world title contender because of Stoner.

Sure it's not outlandish thinking to believe they will win GP's without Stoner, but at this point, the deck has been so stacked against them, that if they do not win a GP, it wouldn't be entirely shocking either.

Jumkie said:

You really do need people to spell it out don't you. Jesus man.

You said Ducati were winning 'before', then I pointed out that was a time when they worked with Bridgestone to develop a winning package. Thats IS why they were winning genius. Now they do NOT have that dynamic going for them! Do you think it's coincidence that when they worked with Bridgestone it resulted in 2005 to 07 winning races, in 06-07 contenders and winners of a title, then all that went to .... steadily when that relationship with the tire manufacturer was destroyed? That relationship was so valuable to their hopes of competition that they even wanted to start a new exclusive development relationship with Michelin, you know, that tire company that your hero threw under the bus. That tire company that your hero said he would rather QUIT the sport if he was made to suffer competing with those ...... French tires.

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You are so clumsy. So now Ducati successes were all due to tires, not to Stoner any more...? Ahahahaha, let's see if you can see the ramifications of your own canfusion?

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Jesus Jarno. Your shot out of a cannon this week.
I'm going to try to get back to talk about the topic that was ruined once again.
Every year this same topic is brought up. Im always surprised that so many people still believe Ducati will have some relevance given their track record without Stoner. Duc is a great company but they dont have the endless funds and unparalled wizardry of Japanese engineers. There's a reason why the name of every TV and electronic in your house ends with a consonant and not a vowel. Ducatis Lost its chance to be competitive when the electronics era kicked in. They can't compete with magical transmissions infinite budgets and engineers that have been producing the worlds most sophisticated electronics for 30 years.
This is not a knock on to Ducati which is a great company and masters of the architecturally,engineering of machinery. The problem is the playing field is no longer about architecture, it's all about electronics and gizmos now
They could win when the electronics were about wrist control and brain impulses. Those days are long gone

Click to expand...

Top post JK, and the one thing that I would add is tyres.

Ducati were at their strongest when they were the focus of Bridgestone's attention (well, part of the small B'stone brigade), but when B'stone had to provide tyres for all, that affected Ducati because the tyres had a wider operating band.

The Michelin, will be interesting and so far so good for Ducati, but that may well be their practice with the electronics more than any satisfaction with the Michelin.

Go back to tyre wars and let them all play I reckon

JPSLotus said:

Ah but given that Loris Capirossi carried over from 2006 to 2007 on the Ducati, his results were much worse than they were in 2006. He went from a 3rd in the championship to a 7th. Stoner won more grands prix for Ducati in 2007 than the prior 4 seasons combined. The Ducati only became a legitimate world title contender because of Stoner.

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Being fair JSP, it was a chance in 2006 with Capirossi but for a bit of bad luck (no guarantee of course but he got very close).

The bigger issue for Capirossi was that he was more a 990cc rider and simply could not come to terms with the 800cc Ducati (same as Melandri) which is/was a totally different beast to his prior 990cc machine

I am no Capirossi fan given what he did to Harada but credit where due, he did get them close, but no cigar as they say (and let us not forget that Bayliss won as well)

J4rn0 said:

You are so clumsy. So now Ducati successes were all due to tires, not to Stoner any more...? Ahahahaha, let's see if you can see the ramifications of your own canfusion?

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J4rn0, you're my favorite bopper, but God are you dense. Newsflash genius, Ducati were winning and in title contention in 06. The Bridgestones was the common denominator between 05-07, hence why the indication for Ducati's success can be traced much to their relationship with Bridgestones. That relationship was effected detrimentally in 08 and Ducati never recovered, despite having the alien Stoner. The winning STOPPED when they hired the Greatest Of All Time Salaries.

How is this confusing? For a guy who claims to take a special interest in Ducati, you sure are an ignorant dude.

Folks have skirted around the topic of riders - but not fully acknowledged the fact the best riders are on the Jap bikes for a reason. Everbody's panties are getting wet at the thought of Stoner doing a wildcard, but nobody's considering that (assuming we agree that there is such a thing as "aliens") another is bound to come along. Dovi sadly is burned out beyond come-back. Iannone is a bit shy of the mark. If Marquez were to go to Ducati next year I don't doubt his will to win and natural talent would be enough to get the Ducati in Parc Ferme on a regular basis. If Ducati continue to refine the bike like they've steadily been doing, and not do anything radical, it's only a matter of time before a rider of Lorenzo or Marquez's caliber comes along. He's out there; we just don't recognize him as yet. People were predicting great things for Simoncelli and he never came close to realizing the potential that everyone said he had. Remember, when Marquez was in Moto 2 the general consensus was that Honda/Repsol was somehow cheating and nobody was close to predicting what Marquez would accomplish in his first two seasons in the premier class. Very few had a high opinion of Stoner back in 2006. People laughed at him. Joke was on us. Another of his caliber will come along and hopefully not be sucked up into the Honda or Yamaha ranks. I think it is just a matter of time.

Gaz said:

Being fair JSP, it was a chance in 2006 with Capirossi but for a bit of bad luck (no guarantee of course but he got very close).

The bigger issue for Capirossi was that he was more a 990cc rider and simply could not come to terms with the 800cc Ducati (same as Melandri) which is/was a totally different beast to his prior 990cc machine

I am no Capirossi fan given what he did to Harada but credit where due, he did get them close, but no cigar as they say (and let us not forget that Bayliss won as well)

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Sure it was bad luck in some regards, but what you say about Loris Capirossi being more of a 990cc rider is precisely why he didn't win the title, and is also a good thing that he didn't. While you may think this a peculiar thing to say, I like world champions who display an adaptability. The greats should be capable of being great in every era. Capirossi was not that guy. While I do bag on VR, his ability to adapt to the eras he has rode in is certainly remarkable and cannot be taken away from.

What I respect most about Capirossi in spite of his suspect 125cc title in 1990, is that he had enough adaptability to get through a few different MotoGP eras...and managed to hold on for longer than he should have, However, he was a better second than a first, and 2007 is what showed it.

Jumkie said:

J4rn0, you're my favorite bopper, but God are you dense. Newsflash genius, Ducati were winning and in title contention in 06. The Bridgestones was the common denominator between 05-07, hence why the indication for Ducati's success can be traced much to their relationship with Bridgestones. That relationship was effected detrimentally in 08 and Ducati never recovered, despite having the alien Stoner. The winning STOPPED when they hired the Greatest Of All Time Salaries.

How is this confusing? For a guy who claims to take a special interest in Ducati, you sure are an ignorant dude.

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Really? You are much more anti-Rossi than I will ever be pro-Rossi. Feel free (and it's fun seeing you struggle out of the holes you put yourself in), but as I said, better you leave Ducati alone and out of your boring rants.

You know very well that Capirossi also had those unbeatable (according to you) Bridgestones, and they were not enough to even come close to Stoner's results. So stop using pretext points to "dig" at your beloved object of hatred...

And, relax. Merry Christmas! :happy:

J4rn0 said:

Merry Christmas! :happy:

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You're my favorite bopper J4rn0. Merry Christmas buddy.


Merry Christmas to ya'll Christian Powersliders. Thanx for making this place a great waste of time--it's always fun. Hope u guys have a fantastic holiday. Happy birthday Jesus!