BSB & 10kgs for the Airwaves Ducati

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Jun 30, 2007
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Hey Guys, I found this on a message board on an Australian Superbike website.
I thought it was very interesting...
Cheers
Corr

www.motorcyclenews.com


British Superbikes: Airwaves Ducati pull out of Donington Park round
By Rob Hull

British Superbikes

20 May 2008 18:58

British Superbike Championship leaders Airwaves Ducati will not be racing at Donington Park for round four of the season.

Team Owner Darrell Healey has withdrawn the team who lead both the riders and teams standings, due to a safety concern with the recently added regulation.

It was announced on Monday that anyone running V-twin machinery in BSB will have to carry a minimum weight of 175kg, instead of 165kg as set out at the beginning of the season.

The move to hit the Ducati’s with a weight penalty came as a result of four-cylinder teams suggesting they were over-stretching the standard engine parts of their bikes to keep with the Italian machines.

Airwaves Team Manager Colin Wright told MCN: “We won’t be going to Donington this weekend.

“The race organizers have imposed this penalty without any supporting evidence.

“There has been concerns about the safety of other bikes and reliability, but adding 10kg of weight to our bikes effectively four days before a race weekend means we can’t do any testing and for safety reasons we are going to withdraw.

“I don’t know what MSVR will do as we may have broken the conditions of the championship by not attending and be kicked out.

“But Ducati hasn’t even tested the 1098R with an added 10kg either.

“We are prepared to go along with the new regulation as long as we get time to test with it.

“From tomorrow onwards the team and myself will look into how we can add this extra weight, but for us Donington isn’t going to happen.”

In an official team statement, Team Principal of the GSE team, Darrell Healey said: "I am absolutely astounded that the changes have been introduced after only three race meetings and four days before the next event at Donington Park.

"We, as a team, have spent tens of thousands of pounds testing and developing the 1098R based on what we thought were fixed regulations, but it is now clear that under Article A5 MSVR/MCRCB can clearly change the rules as and when they please!

"This is not a situation that either the team or I are comfortable with, and whilst little can be done for this year, I would certainly require absolute clarity on a fixed set of technical rules if we were to compete in any future British Superbike Championships.”

“The bottom line is that we do not have the most competitive race bike performance wise, and that is clear for everybody to see, but both of our riders have been consistent over the first six races and that is why Shane leads the championship.

"Similarly, had our competitors achieved consistent race finishes, our lead would most probably be less than 5 points, which begs the question as to whether the organisers would have reached the same conclusion!

“However, the real joke here is that last October, we, on behalf of Ducati, requested the use of non-production pistons on safety grounds to use in this years BSB Championship, and that request was completely thrown out by ALL the teams racing four cylinder motorcycles.

"Now, just over six months later, those same teams are demanding rule changes to allow non-standard engine parts to be fitted on safety grounds!

"I would suggest that their time would be better spent concentrating on producing fast, but reliable race bikes, rather than constantly whingeing to the race organisers to vary the technical rules.”
 
We, as a team, have spent tens of thousands of pounds testing and developing the 1098R based on what we thought were fixed regulations, but it is now clear that under Article A5 MSVR/MCRCB can clearly change the rules as and when they please!

Thats complete horse .....He new from the start of the year that adjustments could and would be made if the organizers felt the 1200 had an advantage.They dont have the stupid mathematical formula that WSB has that can be manipulated,they just looked at the results and made a determination. 22 ponds sounds rather extreme considering WSB has a max of 11 pound built into their formula.It needs to be cut back to 5kg [11 pounds] and see what happens.I can see where 22 pounds could upset a race bike and make it twitchy but i also think there is a game of bluff going on.I predict they will race if not just to use it as a test session and possibly pick up some points,or,they might still have the doinant bike and win,who knows.
 
This is a bit messy, not the kind of issue the series needs. I had a think about it, and i think the matter of who is right and wrong lies in the solution to the pre-season piston ring argument. Does anyone know how that was resolved??
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baldylocks @ May 23 2008, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>sort of resolved - they are racing.

As i predicted.Do you have a link ?
 
About time, its pretty clear that the extra 200cc has given the Dukes an advantage.

Ducati should use the Desmosedici in BSB/WSB instead of the 1098 in my opinion as its one of the most developed road bikes around and is an 1000cc.

Oh and Colin Wright is the biggest cry baby in motorcycle racing today.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ May 23 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>About time, its pretty clear that the extra 200cc has given the Dukes an advantage.

Ducati should use the Desmosedici in BSB/WSB instead of the 1098 in my opinion as its one of the most developed road bikes around and is an 1000cc.

Oh and Colin Wright is the biggest cry baby in motorcycle racing today.

No it isn't though.

Shakey's finished EVERY race so far, and everyone knows he's rapid on a Duke (look at 03), so it's no surprise he's fast now. Camier's second because he's fast too, as he was in 07. Where's Rutter et al?

And if Ducati entered the D16RR then why would anyone bother turning up? It's a grand prix bike, and even with minimal mods it's probably a good few tenths, if not seconds better than any other BSB bike.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ May 23 2008, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>About time, its pretty clear that the extra 200cc has given the Dukes an advantage.

Last year Lavilla scored 131 points from the first 4 races and won the 5th. Shakey so far has just 9 points more, not really significant.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 24 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Last year Lavilla scored 131 points from the first 4 races and won the 5th. Shakey so far has just 9 points more, not really significant.

True, but Lavilla never lapped a full second faster than the rest of the field consistanly like Shakey has done in a few races and qualifying sessions this season. Plus the other top teams in the championship don't have the same level of kit they had last year like HM Plant Honda. Who last year has their bikes produced and developed in Japan at HRC HQ but this year they are produced and developed at the Honda UK HQ in Louth about 10 minutes away from where I live.

And its pretty visable in both WSBK and BSB how much of an advantage the Dukes have in accelaration.

Please don't get brainwashed by the utter biasty ( is that a word?) of MCN and the Eurosport commentators towards Ducati as they've been pro Ducati for years now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ May 28 2008, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, but Lavilla never lapped a full second faster than the rest of the field consistanly like Shakey has done in a few races and qualifying sessions this season. Plus the other top teams in the championship don't have the same level of kit they had last year like HM Plant Honda. Who last year has their bikes produced and developed in Japan at HRC HQ but this year they are produced and developed at the Honda UK HQ in Louth about 10 minutes away from where I live.

And its pretty visable in both WSBK and BSB how much of an advantage the Dukes have in accelaration.

Please don't get brainwashed by the utter biasty ( is that a word?) of MCN and the Eurosport commentators towards Ducati as they've been pro Ducati for years now.

The rules cannot be tweaked enough to make vehicle performance levels identical, and all race bikes have strong and weak areas. The ducati may be the best bike, but in my opinion the difference is not big enough to conclude it was unfairly achieved. I wouldn't disagree that Honda's support is not at the level it was last year, but GCE have been a top team for years, it is hardly surpising that their work is well excecuted and machines well prepared. With The reduction in HRC input as you mentioned they are likely to be the best team in the paddock. Furthermore they have a ride who we know is a front runner, and dominated this championship just 5 years ago. Shakey is on top of his game and the other Ducati's have had unspectacular results. I can understand the rules be altered in the favour of the majority, but in principle this is no "fairer" than the system in place. The racing has been brilliant this season, I don't feel there is a desperate need to change that.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 28 2008, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The rules cannot be tweaked enough to make vehicle performance levels identical, and all race bikes have strong and weak areas. The ducati may be the best bike, but in my opinion the difference is not big enough to conclude it was unfairly achieved. I wouldn't disagree that Honda's support is not at the level it was last year, but GCE have been a top team for years, it is hardly surpising that their work is well excecuted and machines well prepared. With The reduction in HRC input as you mentioned they are likely to be the best team in the paddock. Furthermore they have a ride who we know is a front runner, and dominated this championship just 5 years ago. Shakey is on top of his game and the other Ducati's have had unspectacular results. I can understand the rules be altered in the favour of the majority, but in principle this is no "fairer" than the system in place. The racing has been brilliant this season, I don't feel there is a desperate need to change that.

I agree with you on many accounts of that post but I believe that all the bikes on the grid need to be of the same cubic capacity and cylinder amount to provide the fairest of championships. The Desmocedici has already been brought up in this thread and I believe that the championship would be fairer if they used the Desmo rather than the 1098r.

I may be wrong with this as the Desmo may be even more dominant than the 1098 but I believe that Ducati should at least try it out to see what it can do, instead of throwing their toys out of the pram everytime the rules go against them (i'm looking at you Colin Wright).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ May 28 2008, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree with you on many accounts of that post but I believe that all the bikes on the grid need to be of the same cubic capacity and cylinder amount to provide the fairest of championships. The Desmocedici has already been brought up in this thread and I believe that the championship would be fairer if they used the Desmo rather than the 1098r.

I may be wrong with this as the Desmo may be even more dominant than the 1098 but I believe that Ducati should at least try it out to see what it can do, instead of throwing their toys out of the pram everytime the rules go against them (i'm looking at you Colin Wright).

I agree that a single capacity limit would be fairer howevver I think you are looking at Superbike with GP glasses on, much like i used to. The concept of superbike racing has always been to provide exciting racing as an advertising platform rather than an engineering testbed. Making rules which encourage entries from as many manufacturers as possilbe will always be difficult but the success of superbike racing in its relatively short historyu would suggest they largely get it right.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 28 2008, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that a single capacity limit would be fairer howevver I think you are looking at Superbike with GP glasses on, much like i used to. The concept of superbike racing has always been to provide exciting racing as an advertising platform rather than an engineering testbed. Making rules which encourage entries from as many manufacturers as possilbe will always be difficult but the success of superbike racing in its relatively short historyu would suggest they largely get it right.

Obviously producing exciting racing should be the primary objective of superbike racing but I hate the politics caused by Ducati over the last few seasons in both WSB and BSB. Last year when the rules were being reviewing to allow the 1200cc into the championship many teams were displeased with the idea, especially Francis Batta who threatened to go to MotoGP if the rules went ahead. Also in BSB team managers such as Rob Mac, Neil Tuxworth and Jack Valentine have expressed their discomfort towards the Dukes saying that they are having to tune their bikes to such a temperamental stage that their bikes are having mechnical breakdowns alot more often than they should.

I just want to see some sort of peace in the superbikes paddocks, something that we haven't seem for a long time.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Haga @ May 28 2008, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Obviously producing exciting racing should be the primary objective of superbike racing but I hate the politics caused by Ducati over the last few seasons in both WSB and BSB. Last year when the rules were being reviewing to allow the 1200cc into the championship many teams were displeased with the idea, especially Francis Batta who threatened to go to MotoGP if the rules went ahead. Also in BSB team managers such as Rob Mac, Neil Tuxworth and Jack Valentine have expressed their discomfort towards the Dukes saying that they are having to tune their bikes to such a temperamental stage that their bikes are having mechnical breakdowns alot more often than they should.

I just want to see some sort of peace in the superbikes paddocks, something that we haven't seem for a long time.

As you have clearly pointed out, peace is rare in superbike paddocks and the people who feel hard done by often threaten to pull out. It is importan for the series to keep as many teams competing as possible, having ducati is better than not having them.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 28 2008, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>As you have clearly pointed out, peace is rare in superbike paddocks and the people who feel hard done by often threaten to pull out. It is importan for the series to keep as many teams competing as possible, having ducati is better than not having them.

Correct, and with rumours of Aprillia, BMW and KTM all coming to WSBK next season its great news all round.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 28 2008, 03:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I agree that a single capacity limit would be fairer howevver I think you are looking at Superbike with GP glasses on, much like i used to. The concept of superbike racing has always been to provide exciting racing as an advertising platform rather than an engineering testbed. Making rules which encourage entries from as many manufacturers as possilbe will always be difficult but the success of superbike racing in its relatively short historyu would suggest they largely get it right.
Even as a fan of the ducati road bikes for several decades and of the racing bikes since their wsbk and motogp advent I am starting to have doubts. I can only comment on wsbk, but there is at least a perception ducati could be sandbagging which is bad, although several other makes now seem to be getting pretty fast. As has been said ducati presumably do not want to run the desmosedici because it has nothing to do with their other roadbikes. I think they would have trouble meeting the larger homologation numbers in future as well, and this may also be a problem for special edition v-twins; presumably they have plans if their influence is as much as is claimed.

I am with you on motogp, the idea of the best riders on the best bikes appeals to me, and even as a ducati/stoner fanboy it still fascinates me more than wsbk this year despite the success of bayliss in wsbk. (edit).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ May 28 2008, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1.Even as a fan of the ducati road bikes for several decades and of the racing bikes since their wsbk and motogp advent I am starting to have doubts. I can only comment on wsbk, but there is at least a perception ducati could be sandbagging which is bad, although several other makes now seem to be getting pretty fast.

2.close racing almost at any cost seems likely to become the prevailing paradigm in most forms of bike racing.

1. I would be surprised if Ducati would sandbag given the relatively poor results coming from all but one of their riders in the world championship.

2. If nobody watches the show racing stops being comercially viable and would innevitably fall appart due to costs.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ May 29 2008, 12:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>1. I would be surprised if Ducati would sandbag given the relatively poor results coming from all but one of their riders in the world championship.

2. If nobody watches the show racing stops being comercially viable and would innevitably fall appart due to costs.
1. I don't really think he is either, but the perception that he could be is a problem. If he has a few more dnfs and the other bikes like the honda keep getting faster I guess this will no longer be the case.
2. A poorly considered remark I was going to edit. I shouldn't post too late at night
<
. I actually agree they should have technical regulations in motogp that leave plenty of room for the skill of the rider, and if it gets too technically dependent as you say no-one will be interested except high-level engineers.
 
I speak from ignorance, but the problem with both bsb this year (and ama superbikes for the last several years) is that ducati and suzuki respectively seem to have the only full-on teams with the most money for bikes and the best riders, and so are likely to win regardless of whether technical regulations favour them.

I don't know what the answer is, the new american regime will probably produce close racing and become enormously popular, but illogically I guess I like the idea of the bikes either being based on real roadbikes, or to reflect genuine technical competition like motogp. I was an avid fan of production car based tin-tops in australia in my youth but have no interest in the current silhouette formula V8 supercars. Just a sign I am out of step with the times I guess, and dorna are right in theory if not in practice that there has to be some limit on costs. My real objection is if results are contrived which I don't think is the case yet in motogp or wsbk.
 

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