- Joined
- May 13, 2009
- Messages
- 6,313
- Location
- Shovel's Club
Agreed. I like Arrab was hard on lorenzo until I saw his tire. Its not like he was running a blistering pace on it.
Help Support MotoGP Forum:
Agreed. I like Arrab was hard on lorenzo until I saw his tire. Its not like he was running a blistering pace on it.
Disagree.
If you run out of tyres/grip while others don't, as happened to Lorenzo on the Bridgestone wet at I think Motegi last year that is one thing and likely down to riding style etc, but the tyre actually disintegrating as the Michelin soft dry tyre was doing early season with the Ducatis is unacceptable, and it looks like the Michelin wet has a similar issue if not definitively proven to be the case by 1 race. Dovi had a semi-catastrophic tyre failure such that he had to limp to the pits fairly early in the race.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
I'm not going to say that Michelin doesn't have more work to do with their wet tires. But when talking about soft wet tires, that is the softest and LEAST durable compound of them all. They're typically chosen if the race is likely to be flag-to-flag or there is a constant downpour. IMO, it's not a surprise that some of the soft wets started to chunk on a drying track.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
Jorge Lorenzo
"There are small differences [between tyres], they are not all the same. This shouldn’t happen, and this is an experience Michelin has to take [on board] so this doesn’t happen again.
"If conditions are similar next time, this can happen again at another track, and this shouldn’t happen.
"There can be degradation, especially on the sides [of the tyre], but when pieces go out of the tyre, this shouldn’t happen."
Sorry, subsequently edited my post bfeore seeing your reply.
Dovi actually had a semi-catastrophic tyre failure which required him to limp to the pits fairly early in the race; the commentators had at first assumed it had to be a mechanical issue.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
So what. It HAS happened before. Pieces of his tire went missing last year at Misano. Has he already forgot?
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
Yes, it does seem Dovi's tire failed very prematurely, however he also had the soft rear which allowed him to push hard right from the start. He is known as a hard braker, so perhaps he was a little harder on his front compared to Iannone who didn't get severe chunking until later in the race.
Of course, it could also be poor QC by Michelin.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
Just because it has happened doesnt mean it should happen. These tires are supposed to be made to standards of the premier racing series in the world. I expect my tires to wear out, but by god if they ever start throwing chunks, somebody is going to answer for it.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
That's why it's important to have the right tire for the conditions. I say again, it was the hard-wet tire that was the best for full race distance on the drying track. The soft wet is not designed for what the riders put it through.
Marquez said during the post race conference that the only reason they chose the soft wets was because they thought it was going to be flag-to-flag. During the race, when he realized the track wasn't drying very quickly, he knew he would have to go full race distance and started riding with more tire conservation in mind. Smart man.
F1 is the premier racing series for cars. Put soft wets on a F1 car and send it out for hot laps on a dry or drying track and time how long it takes before the chunks start flying.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
Im fully aware of how and why riders made the choices they did, bottom line is, the soft tire is supposed to wear out , not come apart. Under no circumstance should a Moto GP tire come apart. Michelin didnt warn that the tire would come apart, they said the compound wouldnt last the entire race. There is a big difference there. If you cant tell the difference, thats on you. In past races Michelin and Bridgestone forced flag to flag races over fears the tires would delaminate or come apart, they didnt do that today even when 90% of the field were running the same tire, meaning they didnt see this coming.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
How could they have seen this coming? For all Michelin knew, the track would dry quicker forcing a flag-to-flag race. In that scenario, the soft wets would've been perfectly fine. It also could have started raining again! Rain soaking the track would have also made the soft wets a good choice.
I cannot agree with you that under no circumstances should a GP tire come apart. ESPECIALLY when talking about wet tires since they're designed for a very specific condition. It's like putting winter tires on your car during the summer and getting pissed that they melted and chunked.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
You are pretty thick huh.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
You're telling me soft-wet tires should never fail on a drying track. If by not buying that makes me thick-headed then yes I am.
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,290
- Location
- NJ
F1 is a very bad example. Their wet weather tires are intermediate and then full wets. There is no soft wet or hard wet.
Even at that, they have been running subpar tires for years now. Their wet weather tires are even more atrocious with both the intermediate and full wets being utter ..... Their dry weather tires are just as bad. Purposely designed to disintegrate should any driver push the tire too hard...and backing off it doesn't get the tire back....you push too hard, your tired is permanently ruined.
Have seen nothing yet aside from the results so first off, congrats to Cal on the win
A long time coming but congrats
And now we have 3 first time winners this season ................
Let us hope we get a few more to upset the applecart between now and years end
Forgot to add that judging from a few feeds, Jack Miller is quite happy about it as well (he did tip it ........ kind of)
A long time coming but congrats
And now we have 3 first time winners this season ................
Let us hope we get a few more to upset the applecart between now and years end
Forgot to add that judging from a few feeds, Jack Miller is quite happy about it as well (he did tip it ........ kind of)
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2016
- Messages
- 642
- Location
- Santa Cruz, Cal
Hmm. NOW, you sound bitter. I thought I was pretty light-heartedly accurate. The U.S. has zero chance to score any points in MotoGP, and almost zero chance for a win in WSBK. Meanwhile, there are "Brits" all over the world motorcycle stage. Sorry that you focus on the U.K. draught. Glad this isn't 'footbul', or I would really get a ration, I bet. rofl
Back to tires: That Lorenzo tire came apart in the middle where it should be hardest, and it was only half gone on the side. That is a piece of crap, to me. And it has nothing to do with normal dry wear on a rain tire. How MM and others made their tires last, is beyond me, unless quality control is really that shoddy.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2007
- Messages
- 10,518
- Location
- Tennessee
No race tire should ever " fail ". They should wear out quickly and be useless if its an extremely soft compound as today, but should never throw out sections of the tire. You covered 2 of the three possible scenarios in todays race
For all Michelin knew, the track would dry quicker forcing a flag-to-flag race. In that scenario, the soft wets would've been perfectly fine. It also could have started raining again! Rain soaking the track would have also made the soft wets a good choice.
There was one other possibility and it wasnt far fetched at all, the track never dried out enough to go to even intermediates. With that in the back of their minds, do you think they would have let 90 % of the field take off if they knew the tires would come apart in 8 laps if it didnt dry.
He is saying such tyres should be expected to wear out but not catastrophically fail, which Dovi being forced to limp to the pits before mid-race or Lorenzo's lap time worsening by 6 or 7 seconds and him being forced to pit a lap after being the fastest on the track are fairly close to being.
The same happened to Rossi 2 or 3 seasons ago in a dry race on the Bridgestones Stoner predicted would fail in race conditions (Rossi wasn't best pleased), although as I recall some were disposed then to blame Rossi rather than the tyres with which you are now entitled to take issue if the opposite is being argued about this race.
Last edited:
Dr No
SPECTRE
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2012
- Messages
- 2,994
- Location
- Crab Key
But what changes to the production process would have to change to ensure that the tyres Never Fail?
What effects might these changes have on other aspects of tyre performance?
I don't admire what Michelin is putting out there, but the omly infallible tyres are ones with zero mu.
What effects might these changes have on other aspects of tyre performance?
I don't admire what Michelin is putting out there, but the omly infallible tyres are ones with zero mu.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2015
- Messages
- 1,916
- Location
- Texas
Michelin actually advised against the inters in Germany. They felt that if the track was dry enough for inters, it was dry enough for slicks. It was just the Yamaha that was in a bad position because their bike isn't very good at getting heat in them.
A wet track not drying after rain has stopped for over an hour with bikes out blowing water off the racing line would be the least likely scenario. Marc mentioned that perhaps the humidity was higher and that slowed the drying. A lot of the teams simply got it wrong today, they believed it would be a similar race as Germany. Rossi and Cal made a gamble that paid off.
No racing tire manufacturer makes a wet tire that will not fail on a dry track.
Lorenzo 2015 Misano
Last edited:
