BMW: Honda and Yamaha are 'killing' MotoGP

Noodles Romanoff · Jul 3, 2012

povol said:
You are not answering the question. What is it that Honda and Yamaha have, that Suzuki and Kawasaki dont have. Its not money, they all have the money. .

Reading an article in a mag where Gary Taylor spills the beans on his time, it came down to the Corporate mind set. Much to much stuff for me to retype, but basically the team was spending sponsorship $$$ ( or where-ever it came from) to get things like a flow bench, dyno and to develop ideas like active suspension, carbon compisite frames or other things that the factory should have been doing. when the factory heard/saw the independantley developed stuff, they took it away and got rid of it.

If they didn't think of it themselves, then it wasn't going to see the light of day.

Real head in the sand type stuff. Good article, that as I said covers much more ( and better justice than I am making it sound like here !) than I can right now.

If anyones interested, I'll scan it in.

Also, Honda have a race engineering dept around 400 strong, and way more money and manufacturing resources than any other manufacturer.

Suzuki had 40 staff in their race dept, and a succesion of Corporate Race Manangers who used the Dept as a stepping stone. Make budget, and you get to move onto a better position in the company. Again, that's in short hand by me.......

Not sure with Kwaka.never bothered to look into their situation.

As per the change to 4 stroke, the rookie rule (in cohorts with repsol), the Honda cup (sorry, Moto2) etc, Honda run things to suit themselves.

seems lucky for the sport yamaha can keep up really.....

I thought BMW's description of the Japanese approach to racing pretty much summed things up.

michaelm · Jul 3, 2012

Noodles Romanoff said:
Reading an article in a mag where Gary Taylor spills the beans on his time, it came down to the Corporate mind set. Much to much stuff for me to retype, but basically the team was spending sponsorship $$$ ( or where-ever it came from) to get things like a flow bench, dyno and to develop ideas like active suspension, carbon compisite frames or other things that the factory should have been doing. when the factory heard/saw the independantley developed stuff, they took it away and got rid of it.

If they didn't think of it themselves, then it wasn't going to see the light of day.

Real head in the sand type stuff. Good article, that as I said covers much more ( and better justice than I am making it sound like here !) than I can right now.

If anyones interested, I'll scan it in.

Also, Honda have a race engineering dept around 400 strong, and way more money and manufacturing resources than any other manufacturer.

Suzuki had 40 staff in their race dept, and a succesion of Corporate Race Manangers who used the Dept as a stepping stone. Make budget, and you get to move onto a better position in the company. Again, that's in short hand by me.......

Not sure with Kwaka.never bothered to look into their situation.

As per the change to 4 stroke, the rookie rule (in cohorts with repsol), the Honda cup (sorry, Moto2) etc, Honda run things to suit themselves.

seems lucky for the sport yamaha can keep up really.....

I thought BMW's description of the Japanese approach to racing pretty much summed things up.

Yes, I think I read that article as well. Whatever the aim of the suzuki gp racing arm was, it would not seem to have been to give themselves the best chance of winning motogp races. KRJR's recent remarks are telling as well.

Jumkie · Jul 3, 2012

Noodles Romanoff said:
Reading an article in a mag where Gary Taylor spills the beans on his time, it came down to the Corporate mind set. Much to much stuff for me to retype, but basically the team was spending sponsorship $$$ ( or where-ever it came from) to get things like a flow bench, dyno and to develop ideas like active suspension, carbon compisite frames or other things that the factory should have been doing. when the factory heard/saw the independantley developed stuff, they took it away and got rid of it.

If they didn't think of it themselves, then it wasn't going to see the light of day.

Real head in the sand type stuff. Good article, that as I said covers much more ( and better justice than I am making it sound like here !) than I can right now.

If anyones interested, I'll scan it in.

Also, Honda have a race engineering dept around 400 strong, and way more money and manufacturing resources than any other manufacturer.

Suzuki had 40 staff in their race dept, and a succesion of Corporate Race Manangers who used the Dept as a stepping stone. Make budget, and you get to move onto a better position in the company. Again, that's in short hand by me.......

Not sure with Kwaka.never bothered to look into their situation.

As per the change to 4 stroke, the rookie rule (in cohorts with repsol), the Honda cup (sorry, Moto2) etc, Honda run things to suit themselves.

seems lucky for the sport yamaha can keep up really.....

I thought BMW's description of the Japanese approach to racing pretty much summed things up.

Great post. Please scan the article if u can. Would love to read it. Thanx.

Welcome to the forum.

cliche guevara · Jul 3, 2012

yeah,please scan it!

welcome to the board noodles!

Keshav · Jul 3, 2012

Noodles Romanoff said:
Reading an article in a mag where Gary Taylor spills the beans on his time, it came down to the Corporate mind set. Much to much stuff for me to retype, but basically the team was spending sponsorship $$$ ( or where-ever it came from) to get things like a flow bench, dyno and to develop ideas like active suspension, carbon compisite frames or other things that the factory should have been doing. when the factory heard/saw the independantley developed stuff, they took it away and got rid of it.

If they didn't think of it themselves, then it wasn't going to see the light of day.

Real head in the sand type stuff. Good article, that as I said covers much more ( and better justice than I am making it sound like here !) than I can right now.

If anyones interested, I'll scan it in.

Also, Honda have a race engineering dept around 400 strong, and way more money and manufacturing resources than any other manufacturer.

Suzuki had 40 staff in their race dept, and a succesion of Corporate Race Manangers who used the Dept as a stepping stone. Make budget, and you get to move onto a better position in the company. Again, that's in short hand by me.......

Not sure with Kwaka.never bothered to look into their situation.

As per the change to 4 stroke, the rookie rule (in cohorts with repsol), the Honda cup (sorry, Moto2) etc, Honda run things to suit themselves.

seems lucky for the sport yamaha can keep up really.....

I thought BMW's description of the Japanese approach to racing pretty much summed things up.

Absolutely. Please do share it with us.

HEISMAN · Jul 3, 2012

I want to read it too

Noodles Romanoff · Jul 3, 2012

It's coming !!

If anyone knows how to share it as a PDF on line here ( in the next 45 min), it would save me the pain of trying to get the print to a size where you won't all go blind trying to read it.

..........the internet has enough stuff to send people blind, without me adding to it.

Computers.......

Noodles Romanoff · Jul 3, 2012

Too late. I'll still accept instructions on the PDF route if anyone has them though. I'll also post this in a seperate topic so more people can see it........and I can peddle my idea that contents of this article go a long way in justifying my oppinion that Duc are the new Suzi.

Not that Duc is repeating exactly what Suzuki did, or will continue to do so.

There is an impression of similarity that I get when it comes to their idiolgy/ethos though......... "It's gotta be 90 degrees man !, that's what makes it a Ducati"

.....anyway, I digress.......

Noodles Romanoff · Jul 3, 2012

Because the "Sponsorship Bind" is illedgeable, I'll type it. I found amusing, in a macarbre way.

"For a long time we had very good sponorship: Pepsi, then Lucky Strike, then Telefonica. It meant that they had senior representitives at races, and they were pretty astute.They could see if things weren't right technically, not least because the riders would delight in telling them."

This put unbearable pressure on the Japanese race-track staff.

"In the end, we fell out in a fairly major way with Telefonica because they got frustrated (to use a polite word) in terms of the promise of improvements that never materialised"

Cheifly, the promise came in the form of a letter from the board to Telefonica and to rider Roberts promising that 2003 would bring "the fastest bike on the grid"

"It never even nearly happened. Kenny kept the letter pinned on his fridge, as a joke. From that point on, I think the factory actually breathed a sigh of relief."

Keshav · Jul 4, 2012

Japanese conservative mind-set. A classic example I recall was a Westerner riding a subway car in Tokyo witnessing a woman fall down on the floor having an epileptic fit. The car full of Japanese commuters all hid behind their newspapers or looked away. No-one offered to assist. The Westerner who got down on the floor and put a leather belt between the women's teeth to keep her from swallowing her tongue was treated with scorn because she'd embarrassed the epileptic by showing any awareness that of the women's distress. Japanese culture is truly much more alien than most Westerners can conceive of.

HEISMAN · Jul 5, 2012

Wow great article and so many missed opportunities. I'm surprised Taylor stayed with them so long. That place seemed like a dead end more so than the Ducati is now.

Jumkie · Jul 5, 2012

Thank you for posting!!! .... SUZUKI!!!

Mick D · Jul 9, 2012

povol said:
Ive got news for you, Honda and Yamaha are the only things holding Gp together.

Oh ....! Took me a while to get up off the floor and stop laughing... do you really believe the ..... you type?

povol said:
Racing has always been, and will always be about buying speed.

When you're finished with this world and you see John Britton and Burt Munro tell them that will ya?

HA3AP · Jul 9, 2012

BarryMachine said:
WHy don't BMW stop "talking" and make a bike that will compete?

Retorical question ........

Probably why I buy Jap cars over Euro cars any day ...... same goes with bikes ....... only it also extends to "other asian brands" too in my case. When the Euro's make a decent bike ....... I'l buy it.

Cars: Ferrari, Lambourghini, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Rollce Royce, Bugatti, Porsche, Aston Martin... And the list goes on VS what A Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi japs make .... cheaply made cars for the remaining population that cannot afford the Euro cars. Same goes for bikes

Mv Agusta, Ducati, BMW, KTM, Aprillia VS Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha?! If I had the choice its euro Exotics all the way, vs cheap affordable bikes... Granted I do like the CBR1000RR pre 2012 yet still a far cry from the Euro bikes, therefore if given the choice and possibility you would even consider Jap. vs Euro bike/car you must be extremely dillusional...

BarryMachine · Jul 10, 2012

HA3AP said:
Cars: Ferrari, Lambourghini, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Rollce Royce, Bugatti, Porsche, Aston Martin... And the list goes on VS what A Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi japs make .... cheaply made cars for the remaining population that cannot afford the Euro cars. Same goes for bikes

Mv Agusta, Ducati, BMW, KTM, Aprillia VS Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki or Yamaha?! If I had the choice its euro Exotics all the way, vs cheap affordable bikes... Granted I do like the CBR1000RR pre 2012 yet still a far cry from the Euro bikes, therefore if given the choice and possibility you would even consider Jap. vs Euro bike/car you must be extremely dillusional...

Oh Euro stuff is fun and all, eg. my current dirt bike is a KTM ....... but I get that given ........

I buy Jap/Asian stuff when I have to buy something,something about "value for money" and reliability.

povol · Jul 10, 2012

BarryMachine said:
Oh Euro stuff is fun and all, eg. my current dirt bike is a KTM ....... but I get that given ........

I buy Jap/Asian stuff when I have to buy something,something about "value for money" and reliability.

And performance!. Euro cars and bikes are way overhyped I would purchase a Lexus over BMW or Mercedes, or a Honda Yamaha etc: over a Ducati, Aprilia, KTM etc:.

cliche guevara · Jul 10, 2012

yup,bang for the buck is all that matters

thats the sole reason i choose vodka and bath salts over champaigne and bud

on topic :

i wonder whether bmw will really get into the series in 2014 now that it seems like the current regulations are here to stay for longer.

at the same time wsbk is gaining momentum (just a subjective guess that i make because of friends of mine getting more turned onto wsbk,would be interesting to see some numbers if anybody has them), and bmw is doing really good there.

imagine nicky finally tells ducati off and goes to bmw,with melandri and hayden on a sorted s1000rr they would gather some pretty good PR for much less cost than in motogp

stiefel · Jul 10, 2012

Mick D said:
Oh ....! Took me a while to get up off the floor and stop laughing... do you really believe the ..... you type?

When you're finished with this world and you see John Britton and Burt Munro tell them that will ya?

To be honest, I believe it too. Honda and Yamaha have invested a lot into this sport; they have shown great and contiued commitment and dedication to the series. Sure, they engaged in plenty of politics to get their way, like everyone (everyone!) else in that peculiar little world that is motogp. But if either of them would quit (and frankly, if one were to quit, the other factories would probably follow suit), the series could not compete against SBK anymore. Might be able to turn the thing into an enterainment oriented series, but not the fastest the bikes in the world. Because without major resources, no one would be able to build a bike that could be safely ridden at the laptimes required to stay ahead of the superbikes.

cliche guevara · Jul 10, 2012

you do realize that the major spending and involvement in the series was not for the sake of the sport but rather for selifish reasons.

no doubt if one pulled out,the others would follow,thats what i argue too.

the thing that some of you overlook,or as is the case with some ignore, is that this way of participating prevents others from joining and potentially ruins the sport

thedeal · Jul 10, 2012

I agree to,if one goes its over but is that a bad thing? all CRT would make for some good close and cheaper racing if the demi gods dont like it go to WSB, at the end of the day all the doom mungers said the loss of 250 was the end but i love moto2 because you dont have to be tied to a factory and it produces good racing.

BMW: Honda and Yamaha are 'killing' MotoGP

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