BMW: Honda and Yamaha are 'killing' MotoGP

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#22

#22

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I thought this was interesting, especially what he said about the Japanese views on technology.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100733

Bernhard Godmayer, the head of BMW's motorcycle racing effort, says Honda and Yamaha are 'killing' MotoGP and that his firm has no interest in entering the series under its current rules.

BMW Motorrad Motorsport is currently focusing on the Superbike World Championship, although the Forward Racing MotoGP team is using its engines in it Suter CRT chassis.

Godmayer told Motosprint that MotoGP's current path was off-putting for BMW.

"It's a complex issue. However, to put it succinctly, we can say that the technological level in MotoGP nowadays is extremely high and the investments required in order to be competitive are immense," he said.

"So, if the situation doesn't change, then BMW won't be interested in entering MotoGP. If, by contrast, the rules change..."

He feels Yamaha and Honda are to blame for MotoGP's present shape.

"I say that Honda and Yamaha are killing MotoGP," said Godmayer.

He added: "It's the truth. The Japanese have a vision of racing different from ours. All they can think of is reaching technological leadership. Their objective is to beat the rivals: if this sports war ruins the show, it doesn't matter.

"Instead, we believe that the races must be several things: a show, a business, and a way to entertain the crowd."
Click to expand...
 
#22 said:
I thought this was interesting, especially what he said about the Japanese views on technology.



http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100733
Click to expand...



Jaouad ain't gonna be happy with that news!
<
 
#22 said:
I thought this was interesting, especially what he said about the Japanese views on technology.



http://www.autosport...t.php/id/100733
Click to expand...

All they can think of is reaching technological leadership. Their objective is to beat the rivals:



Imagine that! What in the .... is wrong with the Japanese. In a technological series, they want to reach technological leadership. On top of that, the sorry .......s want to beat their rivals. Here is an idea for Blowhard Godmayer, stay in the minor leagues you coward. If you cant run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!
 
Haha Pov, I see what you mean but I can also see his point of view. What I think he means is the Japanese are ALL about the bike and technology and don't always consider the rider to be as important as the bike. Look at 2003 when Rossi left Honda and they were convinced it was the bike not him that was so fast and then they learned the following year the hard way it wasnt just the technology that gives them wins.
 
#22 said:
Haha Pov, I see what you mean but I can also see his point of view. What I think he means is the Japanese are ALL about the bike and technology and don't always consider the rider to be as important as the bike. Look at 2003 when Rossi left Honda and they were convinced it was the bike not him that was so fast and then they learned the following year the hard way it wasnt just the technology that gives them wins.
Click to expand...

Rossi was so superior to the competition in those days, im convinced he could have gone to just about any bike and won. In todays GP, with the talent what it is, its more about the bike than ever. Rossi is proof of what im saying. Is Rossi the seventh best rider in GP, not only no, but hell no. He is the 3rd best rider but cannot sniff 3rd in the standings. I also think Stoner is better than Lorenzo, but under " current " regulations, his bike is inferior to the Yamaha.
 
Reigning World Superbike champion Carlos Checa joined a growing number of riders who have been jettisoned from or left the MotoGP World Championship for WSBK to criticize what they see as excessive amounts of technology on current Grand Prix motorcycles.

Checa urged MotoGP to remove some of the gizmos from the engines and some of the black magic from the tires last week during World Ducati Week.

"They need to take a step back," Checa said. "The fans want some excitement on track, seeing the riders and manufacturers fighting with one another. They don't care about a technology race. They can watch a space launch for that, not a bike race.

"They need a limit which allows the human to make the difference. And I'm not only talking about the bikes but also the tires."



http://www.superbike..._medium=twitter



Motogp it getting both barrels from all sides Fans, Riders, (CS) Ex Riders, even twitter is full of ppl venting over the rules, CRP, the way its going,

Etc its going to disappear behind a big paywall soon you watch Sky Italy. was just the start



i wont be paying for sure
 
Pigeon said:
They can watch a space launch for that, not a bike race.

"They need a limit which allows the human to make the difference. And I'm not only talking about the bikes but also the tires."





Motogp it getting both barrels from all sides Fans Riders (CS) E
Click to expand...



Minus Pov and Birdman.
 
Whats killing GP is the lack of competitors who have the balls to step up to try and beat the best. We cant beat Yamaha, waaaaa, we cant beat Honda, waaaaa. So we will set in the corner and whine till the teacher changes the rules. Society at large is a bunch of ....... whiny assed ....... who dont know how to compete.They want everything given to them. Honda and Yamaha worked their ... off over the decades to establish their technical superiority,Now no one wants to play because they are to good. Fuckem all.
 
BMW are simply stating that Honda and Yamaha are only winning their own game, with rules written to advantage them, and prohibit others from competing. Honda and Yamaha have worked hard yes, but not nearly as hard as they would have worked under different regs-with more competition.



So what are Honda and Yamaha actually winning? 'The Honda and Yamaha cup'



And Bridgestone always wins anyway, hardly competition, hardly innovation.........how can it be called innovation? It's electronics technology that exists because of strict regs, not technology that has been created for advancement. Look at the times from 2006, hardly any difference to today-no progress, not faster, more boring and far more expensive..........how is this progress? Not too mention riders that have to adapt their style to the electronics and the tyres, rather than how it should be-the other way around.......
 
povol said:
Whats killing GP is the lack of competitors who have the balls to step up to try and beat the best. We cant beat Yamaha, waaaaa, we cant beat Honda, waaaaa. So we will set in the corner and whine till the teacher changes the rules. Society at large is a bunch of ....... whiny assed ....... who dont know how to compete.They want everything given to them. Honda and Yamaha worked their ... off over the decades to establish their technical superiority,Now no one wants to play because they are to good. Fuckem all.
Click to expand...

If we do it your way there will only be four bikes on the grid and you'll be back to not watching GP on TV, maybe some youtube action if you're lucky. If the sport sucks to watch what TV station is gonna want to give it any air time. You are forgetting that moto racing has to compete with everything else on TV and for money from sponsors. Your argument would be better if there was some real innovation in GP instead of just enough innovation to keep other competition away.
 
WHy don't BMW stop "talking" and make a bike that will compete?



Retorical question ........
<




Probably why I buy Jap cars over Euro cars any day ...... same goes with bikes ....... only it also extends to "other asian brands" too in my case. When the Euro's make a decent bike ....... I'l buy it.
 
povol said:
Whats killing GP is the lack of competitors who have the balls to step up to try and beat the best. We cant beat Yamaha, waaaaa, we cant beat Honda, waaaaa. So we will set in the corner and whine till the teacher changes the rules. Society at large is a bunch of ....... whiny assed ....... who dont know how to compete.They want everything given to them. Honda and Yamaha worked their ... off over the decades to establish their technical superiority,Now no one wants to play because they are to good. Fuckem all.
Click to expand...



U done having ur hissy fit at the dumb way the Bmw exc expressed himself in an attempt to make a point? Would u like to debate ARBITRARY RULES with me? I know I'd be wasting my time, but i would do it for the entertainment value of those who can comprehend.



Imagine if GP had a rule that said, everybody must have desmodronic valves. Would such a rule be "arbitrary"? Yes. Would it be prohibitive for most manufactures? Yes. Would this make manufactures who point to these rules as chickenshit? No. But it would help identify the idiots of the hurd. That would be U.
 
povol said:
Whats killing GP is the lack of competitors who have the balls to step up to try and beat the best. We cant beat Yamaha, waaaaa, we cant beat Honda, waaaaa. So we will set in the corner and whine till the teacher changes the rules. Society at large is a bunch of ....... whiny assed ....... who dont know how to compete.They want everything given to them. Honda and Yamaha worked their ... off over the decades to establish their technical superiority,Now no one wants to play because they are to good. Fuckem all.
Click to expand...



Ok Pov, if you feel that way then go and raise $20 million or however much it takes to get a team to compete in MotoGP and then stay at the back of the grid forever because you can't afford to spend what the manufacturers are spending. Hell even I'd get fed up with that. Can you see anyone wanting to spend millions of dollars just to 'fill the grid'?





Jumkie said:
U done having ur hissy fit at the dumb way the Bmw exc expressed himself in an attempt to make a point? Would u like to debate ARBITRARY RULES with me? I know I'd be wasting my time, but i would do it for the entertainment value of those who can comprehend.



Imagine if GP had a rule that said, everybody must have desmodronic valves. Would such a rule be "arbitrary"? Yes. Would it be prohibitive for most manufactures? Yes. Would this make manufactures who point to these rules as chickenshit? No. But it would help identify the idiots of the hurd. That would be U.
Click to expand...



Go for it Jum
<
 
povol said:
Whats killing GP is the lack of competitors who have the balls to step up to try and beat the best. We cant beat Yamaha, waaaaa, we cant beat Honda, waaaaa. So we will set in the corner and whine till the teacher changes the rules. Society at large is a bunch of ....... whiny assed ....... who dont know how to compete.They want everything given to them. Honda and Yamaha worked their ... off over the decades to establish their technical superiority,Now no one wants to play because they are to good. Fuckem all.
Click to expand...



Yes, and the ..... Soviets are the reason totalitarian communism failed.



You've never really understood the purpose of libertine rugged-individualism. Competition isn't a means unto itself. It is not implicitly moral. During the Enlightenment philosophers and culturists explored the counter-intuitive nature of managed or regulated competition, but it was a means to an end. The end was a more rapid development for mankind and incentives to explore robust mutually-beneficial cooperation (for the first time, the middle class would get to keep most of their earnings). The ends of competition are not present in MotoGP.



MotoGP is not a free market or even an open market. MotoGP has plutocratic governance. The nature of sports competition cannot necessarily be modified, but the environment in which sports operate can be altered to make sure the sport produces economic gains. Stick and ball sports have been modifying the environment for decades, with salary caps, leagues, collective bargaining, draft lotteries, etc. All artificial means of stimulating competition in a contest that is designed to eliminate competition in the long run.



Proper business models are part of the reason why the NFL is about 10x bigger than F1 and NASCAR. Even PGA Tour Golf makes better money when high profile players, like Tiger Woods, are dominant. Racing is stupid to its core, and corrupt all the way to the marrow. Even when organizers develop an innovation (e.g. Bernie's Concorde Agreement), they often hoarde every last penny for themselves. Racing is dying for a reason, but it isn't due to uncommitted competitors or ..... factories who happen to be legally-obliged to protect shareholder funds from rigged contests.
 
mylexicon said:
Yes, and the ..... Soviets are the reason totalitarian communism failed.



You've never really understood the purpose of libertine rugged-individualism. Competition isn't a means unto itself. It is not implicitly moral. During the Enlightenment philosophers and culturists explored the counter-intuitive nature of managed or regulated competition, but it was a means to an end. The end was a more rapid development for mankind and incentives to explore robust mutually-beneficial cooperation (for the first time, the middle class would get to keep most of their earnings). The ends of competition are not present in MotoGP.



MotoGP is not a free market or even an open market. MotoGP has plutocratic governance. The nature of sports competition cannot necessarily be modified, but the environment in which sports operate can be altered to make sure the sport produces economic gains. Stick and ball sports have been modifying the environment for decades, with salary caps, leagues, collective bargaining, draft lotteries, etc. All artificial means of stimulating competition in a contest that is designed to eliminate competition in the long run.



Proper business models are part of the reason why the NFL is about 10x bigger than F1 and NASCAR. Even PGA Tour Golf makes better money when high profile players, like Tiger Woods, are dominant. Racing is stupid to its core, and corrupt all the way to the marrow. Even when organizers develop an innovation (e.g. Bernie's Concorde Agreement), they often hoarde every last penny for themselves. Racing is dying for a reason, but it isn't due to uncommitted competitors or ..... factories who happen to be legally-obliged to protect shareholder funds from rigged contests.
Click to expand...

Welcome back, mate. Haven't seen you on here for a bit. I always enjoy your posts - most "illuminating"...
 
mylexicon said:
Yes, and the ..... Soviets are the reason totalitarian communism failed.



You've never really understood the purpose of libertine rugged-individualism. Competition isn't a means unto itself. It is not implicitly moral. During the Enlightenment philosophers and culturists explored the counter-intuitive nature of managed or regulated competition, but it was a means to an end. The end was a more rapid development for mankind and incentives to explore robust mutually-beneficial cooperation (for the first time, the middle class would get to keep most of their earnings). The ends of competition are not present in MotoGP.



MotoGP is not a free market or even an open market. MotoGP has plutocratic governance. The nature of sports competition cannot necessarily be modified, but the environment in which sports operate can be altered to make sure the sport produces economic gains. Stick and ball sports have been modifying the environment for decades, with salary caps, leagues, collective bargaining, draft lotteries, etc. All artificial means of stimulating competition in a contest that is designed to eliminate competition in the long run.



Proper business models are part of the reason why the NFL is about 10x bigger than F1 and NASCAR. Even PGA Tour Golf makes better money when high profile players, like Tiger Woods, are dominant. Racing is stupid to its core, and corrupt all the way to the marrow. Even when organizers develop an innovation (e.g. Bernie's Concorde Agreement), they often hoarde every last penny for themselves. Racing is dying for a reason, but it isn't due to uncommitted competitors or ..... factories who happen to be legally-obliged to protect shareholder funds from rigged contests.
Click to expand...

Thought we'd lost you. I agree - one cannot lose sight of the fact that the business model for racing is failing - tho I suppose from Honda's perspective - it would be fine if there were only Honda cars and bikes on the roads and all races were as per Moto 2.
 

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