Best season of all time .... ?
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Im not making any excuses which is why i did not mention the shoulder injury as rossi missed no races because of it. The only reason i memtioned the leg was because he missed 4 races because of it. Jumkie stated Lorenzo beat rossi on the same bike and i agree but its only fair to point out rossi missed 4 races this season while Lorenzo missed non. Im not taking anything away from lorenzo as im a fan but 4 races is potentually 100 pts.
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broken leg and subsequent races missed by rossi because of that your quite right.
I agree, a deeper more profound analysis would be necessary to make a meaningful comparison. Yes you are correct, over the season its a bit difficult to compare straight up because of injury. So lets factor in injury at the beginning of the season shall we. Lorenzo had a well documented wrist injury going into the season. The only race pre-leg-injury that Rossi won was Qatar, and we both know who should have won that race. The following two races were won by Lorenzo. So just in that three round mini comparison, I suppose something like a "Mundialito", Lorenzo won. Factor in Lorenzo's injury (one that did not ebb and flow) and couple this with the fact that at the beginning of the season, the bikes would have been decidedly more developed around Rossi, I'd say my statement that Lorenzo beat Rossi on his own bike is fairly accurate.
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If you use the head to head races when neither were significantly limited by injury (depending how much you believe Rossi's shoulder has hampered him and Lorenzo's wrist injury heading into the season) then Lorenzo has won this head to head scenario. Now factor in the significance of who the bike is designed around, as we have heard countless times that Lorenzo won on the laurels of Rossi's development (I'm assuming they don't won't backtrack on that statement) then this makes the accomplishment even more revealing. This last point cannot be overstated, as you may want to consider in the last ten years, who has won the title while not being the #1 rider for which the bike was developed?
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It's true lorenzo was leading rossi in the championship prior to rossi breaking his leg. It's also true that while lorenzo managed to gain this small lead he did so with a wrist injury. We all know the lad is as hard as .... and can ride hard while injured ,something you and i agreed earned our respect and admiration. The point is though he missed no races because of it ,where as ross missed 4 because of a compound fracture, something im sure we can all agree no man could ride with.
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One thing is for sure, Lorenzo is a lot more experienced at riding with injures than rossi
It's a valid point that the M1 is designed around / by rossi but it's also a valid point to note that bikes designed by him and crew are very user-friendly.
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True. Something Rossi also proved with that leg injury, and Depuniet, and Bautista, and Aoyama. This is why I respect and admire Hopkins so much, and is somebody that never got the admiration and glory of coming back to race quickly after horrible injury.
Can anybody here really honestly say that Jorge's season this year is even close to the best of all time.......????
I'm certainly a fan of Gorgeous George, and predicted he would be the strongest challenger for the title this year.
In saying this-this thread is Rubbish-from the king of Diarrhea himself, he has been soundly beaten at many rounds this year, his lack of a crash and very consistent top 4 form has amassed the points. Only Seven wins at present which is still a far cry from recent success's like Rossi's 11 wins in 2005, 2002 and 2001, the latter on the stroker. Notably these earlier seasons only had 16 rounds, so at this point, the 16 round mark, Rossi had 351 points in 2005, 355 points in 2002, and 325 points in 2001. Stoner also had 367 points in 2007 with 10 wins-albeit with 18 rounds though. And I won't even bother going back any further, but I'm sure there are others.
Currently Jorge has 333
Adding to this, Pedders serious injury. Rossi 2 Serious injuries, Spies a rookie and Stoner crashing every second round........And of course his competitors woes are not a valid argument, but it seems Jorge's woes are being included-and were included last year and the year before-so why not?
Yes he had a wrist problem at qatar, but most of his complaint about this was made at the qatar test weeks earlier, with Motegi volcanised it was subsequently not mentioned again and clearly not a problem.
The man clearly deserves his title and has ridden brilliantly, but to infer it could be the greatest of all time is nothing more than a pathetic dig at his rivals (fans), interestingly enough the moronic author is dissing his own boys currently greater achievements in the process......involuntary reverse bopperism
I'm certainly a fan of Gorgeous George, and predicted he would be the strongest challenger for the title this year.
In saying this-this thread is Rubbish-from the king of Diarrhea himself, he has been soundly beaten at many rounds this year, his lack of a crash and very consistent top 4 form has amassed the points. Only Seven wins at present which is still a far cry from recent success's like Rossi's 11 wins in 2005, 2002 and 2001, the latter on the stroker. Notably these earlier seasons only had 16 rounds, so at this point, the 16 round mark, Rossi had 351 points in 2005, 355 points in 2002, and 325 points in 2001. Stoner also had 367 points in 2007 with 10 wins-albeit with 18 rounds though. And I won't even bother going back any further, but I'm sure there are others.
Currently Jorge has 333
Adding to this, Pedders serious injury. Rossi 2 Serious injuries, Spies a rookie and Stoner crashing every second round........And of course his competitors woes are not a valid argument, but it seems Jorge's woes are being included-and were included last year and the year before-so why not?
Yes he had a wrist problem at qatar, but most of his complaint about this was made at the qatar test weeks earlier, with Motegi volcanised it was subsequently not mentioned again and clearly not a problem.
The man clearly deserves his title and has ridden brilliantly, but to infer it could be the greatest of all time is nothing more than a pathetic dig at his rivals (fans), interestingly enough the moronic author is dissing his own boys currently greater achievements in the process......involuntary reverse bopperism
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I remember reading an article in a copy of Road racer magazine you posted me about Hopper and his injures. The foot peg up his arse resulting in many stitches made my eyes water
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Of course not. It's a lame ... thread which is hardly surprising considering the author. Lorenzos season has been awesome, he has bearly put a foot wrong and walked away with his dream world championship title. Even Though Rossi crashed and then had to miss 4 races it's hardly detrimental to his achievement. You have to keep it rubber side down to win after all. To say its the best season of all time ? well im sure it is for Lorenzo but as others have proved other champions have achieved a higher percentage of points available but im sure that matters none to Jorge.
I agree with the above.
Lorenzo will have a great accomplishment but I dont think it will overshadow Rossi or Doohan's record seasons. It would have been better if he podiumed every race like Rossi did in 2003.
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Where there is diarrhea, you are never far behind (and surely with etal in tow). While BM inadvertently spews ...., you waddle in it by virtue of an inability to accept an opinion that would challenge your common & particular delusional perspective. Here is the difference I see between you and BM. He is more like a dumb moth that relentlessly tries to attack the light even though, as we hilariously saw in another thread, it’s only resulted in his own demise. But you on the other hand are like a cockroach, that is, besides being a bottom dweller, you run from the light because your comfort is in the darkness of your own blindness.
Lorenzo's season can certainly be considered among the best. But for you, because it means that he beat a certain fellow, it must be tainted right? Newsflash, all great seasons have some form of attrition and significant circumstances that contributed to certain lopsidedness. If I had to make a case for a dominant season, I would have gone with 07. But of course you would give us a list of why its was false dominance right? Why don't you save us the reading and just post like Curve? Oh wait, that's because you have zero wit. I know, just do a "+1" and be done with it. This way you save Internet bandwith that otherwise would be filled with .... from you.
Where there is diarrhea, you are never far behind (and surely with etal in tow). While BM inadvertently spews ...., you waddle in it by virtue of an inability to accept an opinion that would challenge your common & particular delusional perspective. Here is the difference I see between you and BM. He is more like a dumb moth that relentlessly tries to attack the light even though, as we hilariously saw in another thread, it’s only resulted in his own demise. But you on the other hand are like a cockroach, that is, besides being a bottom dweller, you run from the light because your comfort is in the darkness of your own blindness.
Lorenzo's season can certainly be considered among the best. But for you, because it means that he beat a certain fellow, it must be tainted right? Newsflash, all great seasons have some form of attrition and significant circumstances that contributed to certain lopsidedness. If I had to make a case for a dominant season, I would have gone with 07. But of course you would give us a list of why its was false dominance right? Why don't you save us the reading and just post like Curve? Oh wait, that's because you have zero wit. I know, just do a "+1" and be done with it. This way you save Internet bandwith that otherwise would be filled with .... from you.
Wow - Man that was almost poetry.
Hope like .... I'm not the dung beetle?
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Oh darn ! am I banned or something, where's my demise?
I thought was currently on a high in that other thread! ie. Arab and Reg. and a few other boppers, have had a meltdown ( or have "come out of the closet" ..... hard to say ), though it could be argued that it was triggerred by your own meltdown of a few months ago
Now back to the subject at hand, without the insects
So, irrespective of if he gains most points or not, what about credence for the fact that Lorenzo has defeated a line up that could be argued as stronger than the Rainey,Doohan,Shwantz era ?
Which era was the most competitive?
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i think most people would agree that rossi was yamaha and that a few years back it seemed like a crazy fantasy that he would leave yamaha because they wouldn't do everything vale wants
therefor its a hell of an achievment for lorenzo to have made yamaha lorenzos land because make no mistake,i think there is no way that rossi would have been on a duc in 2011 if he got everything he wanted like hes (rightfully) used to
and all i was saying is that lorenzo took a giant step towards that,even the most full fledged rossi worshiper kinda has to agree that beating rossi proves that you are not only good but great
@ jumkie :thanks for summing it up,couldn't agree more
wtf is the name calling here though?somebody starts a thread and gets nothing but .... simply because he started a discussion and actually i think this is kinda a good thread because many people have very different opinions and we can properly debate in this case why we support which statements oO i mean theres always the same 2 or 3 idiots who repeat the same crap and only insult others,now what the .... is that?
The quality of the competition can only really be judged relative to the best rider out there. We'd all agree that the field was weak in the Doohan or early Rossi days, but thats because those riders were so supperior the others were weak in comparison.
That statement is impossible to justify. Was Rossi not trying his hardest this year? I would suggest Rossi always puts in 100% and this year it wasn't enough.
Lorenzo had 4 non scores last year, thats potentially 100 points. We should mention that every time anybody suggests Rossi was a worthy world champion in 2009. Not taking credit away or anything, its just a fact that needs to be considered
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Lorenzo had 4 non scores last year, thats potentially 100 points. We should mention that every time anybody suggests Rossi was a worthy world champion in 2009. Not taking credit away or anything, its just a fact that needs to be considered
Firstly where talking about this year, secondly why direct this at me ? im well aware of Lorenzo's career/injures and missed races. Ive never suggested Lorenzo is not a worthy champion this year nor suggested Rossi was not worthy last year. Whats your point apart from trying to push my buttons ?
And lorenzo retired from 4 races, he did not miss them due to being layed up in a hospital. bed. Rossi also retired 1 that season so you can deduct 25 points from your potential 100.
Firstly where talking about this year, secondly why direct this at me ? im well aware of Lorenzo's career/injures and missed races. Ive never suggested Lorenzo is not a worthy champion this year nor suggested Rossi was not worthy last year. Whats your point apart from trying to push my buttons ?
And lorenzo retired from 4 races, he did not miss them due to being layed up in a hospital. bed
I'm directing this at you because although you are far more reasonable than many people about the outcome of this (and some other) seasons, you are one of the people who often says something along the lines of 'not taking anything away from Lorenzo, but...' usually going on to add a load of terms and conditions to do exactly the opposite of what you say. Yes i'm pushing buttons by mentioning last year, the point being that nobody spent all of last season saying Rossi only won due to others mistakes (Lorenzo's errors lost him 100 points) while this year nobody can mention the world champion without someone adding that Rossi's error(s) cost him 100 points or more. I appreciate that as a Rossi fan you will want to discuss him more than anyone else, but i don't think it's reasonable to behave as though the overall result of the season is always a function of what happened to Rossi.
Firstly where talking about this year, secondly why direct this at me ? im well aware of Lorenzo's career/injures and missed races. Ive never suggested Lorenzo is not a worthy champion this year nor suggested Rossi was not worthy last year. Whats your point apart from trying to push my buttons ?
And lorenzo retired from 4 races, he did not miss them due to being layed up in a hospital. bed. Rossi also retired 1 that season so you can deduct 25 points from your potential 100.
You can argue for multiple riders having problems in all of the last 5 seasons, but for all the championships concerned the riders can do no more than win as you imply. Barry is being deliberately vexatious in calling this win particularly remarkable, although if jorge ends up with the most points ever it is hard to gainsay that. The rider who has won 2 of the five whilst the other 3 championships have been singular would seem likely to have the bragging rights overall in the long sweep of history, but at present jorge is obviously the only one who is the world champion.
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I agree with what you're saying, i just think your directing it at the wrong person. I can refute others blind claims without trying to take the shine off lorenzo. I think you should re read what i say because you obviously took my comments the wrong way. I don't talk rossi up anymore than say michaelm who is a stoner fan. Please also note i became a lorenzo fan in 08.
