Ben Spies...Ducati rider.

I dont get why the hell people still invoke Suzuki. Uhm, yeah, cant wait till MV Augusta comes back, bla bla. And even if Suzuki comes back, who cares, theyre still gonna suck. It will just be more grid filler to fool peeps that there is a competition for the title.

Jumkie said:

I dont get why the hell people still invoke Suzuki. Uhm, yeah, cant wait till MV Augusta comes back, bla bla. And even if Suzuki comes back, who cares, theyre still gonna suck. It will just be more grid filler to fool peeps that there is a competition for the title.

Click to expand...

NVM last post was better

Jumkie said:

I dont get why the hell people still invoke Suzuki.

Click to expand...

Riders' Championships 6

1976 Barry Sheene

1977 Barry Sheene

1981 Marco Lucchinelli

1982 Franco Uncini

1993 Kevin Schwantz

2000 Kenny Roberts, Jr.

bluegreen said:

Click to expand...

Well....there is that.

bluegreen said:

Click to expand...

Lovely umbrella

Goodbye Ben, its been nice knowing you. Look forward to catching up with you in the AMA paddock on one of my upcoming USA visits

michaelm said:

When? If you want to argue he should have won this year I would agree given how dani is placed he had a chance at this year's title, but most of his bid was after his decision to retire.



On the evidence of all other riders who have ridden an 800 or 1000 ducati gp bike, and to a lesser extent the 990 ducati, his ducati title was a massive overachievement. He had a shot in 2008, but I seem to recall some bloke called valentino riding fairly well that year.



2 titles is fine, particularly since both were dominant wins over a field containing great riders. More titles would have been even better, but he was never going to ride long enough to challenge the likes of doohan and rossi, and as mick doohan himself has said the true mark of rossi's greatness (and by implication his superiority over mick) was his ability to stay at the very pinnacle of the sport for over a decade. Apart from lacking the desire, I freely acknowledge stoner did not have the physical and mental toughness to prevail for as long as valentino has/did, but then nobody does. Jorge looks somewhat more likely to approach valentino, but I strongly doubt he will in the end either.



Undecided about ben going to ducati. I am a fan and followed his wsbk title avidly. Maybe there is considerable money there for him, maybe he wants to stay in the game awaiting suzuki's return, maybe he regards motogp as unfinished business. I can see why he would not want to stay at yamaha even if they wanted him, his side of the garage seems to have been run with at the very least almost unprecedented incompetence for a yamaha or honda factory team.

Click to expand...

Amazing how many people disparage Stoner for winning "only" two titles (in what was a brief bout in MGP) and yet these are the same ones who bow down and touch the feet of Schwantz who only won one title. It's all about cult of personality and little to do with ability or championship winning ways. I remember the first year Stoner was on the Duc and the haters were all reminding everybody of Stoner's first year on the satellite Honda with the ...... tires and calling him "Crashy Stoner". Yet these were the same ones who see Schwantz as "The Sun King" of racing - despite the fantastic number of crashes he achieved in his time.



I would say it all started very early on - the hatred of Stoner, when he was just a small fry Aussie just moved lock-stock-and-barrel to the UK living with in a ...... caravan with his mum and dad. He was on inferior equipment and yet consistently beat the British kids on superior equipment - and was booed by British fans everywhere he went. He was repeatedly accused of cheating and endured many tear-downs all of which concluded that there'd been no cheating - which infuriated the British riders (who weren't winning ....) even more. The "Tall Poppy Syndrome" to the nth degree - a phenomenon that spread exponentially over the years. Is it any wonder that in his later years Stoner was not fond of meet and greets with "the fans"? Is it any wonder that he didn't develop into a one-man self-aggrandizement clown like a certain other well known rider?

In the meantime - having a hard time picturing macho, stoic Ben in the flashy green and white livery.

Keshav said:

In the meantime - having a hard time picturing macho, stoic Ben in the flashy green and white livery.

Click to expand...

This

Keshav said:

Amazing how many people disparage Stoner for winning "only" two titles (in what was a brief bout in MGP) and yet these are the same ones who bow down and touch the feet of Schwantz who only won one title. It's all about cult of personality and little to do with ability or championship winning ways. I remember the first year Stoner was on the Duc and the haters were all reminding everybody of Stoner's first year on the satellite Honda with the ...... tires and calling him "Crashy Stoner". Yet these were the same ones who see Schwantz as "The Sun King" of racing - despite the fantastic number of crashes he achieved in his time.



I would say it all started very early on - the hatred of Stoner, when he was just a small fry Aussie just moved lock-stock-and-barrel to the UK living with in a ...... caravan with his mum and dad. He was on inferior equipment and yet consistently beat the British kids on superior equipment - and was booed by British fans everywhere he went. He was repeatedly accused of cheating and endured many tear-downs all of which concluded that there'd been no cheating - which infuriated the British riders (who weren't winning ....) even more. The "Tall Poppy Syndrome" to the nth degree - a phenomenon that spread exponentially over the years. Is it any wonder that in his later years Stoner was not fond of meet and greets with "the fans"? Is it any wonder that he didn't develop into a one-man self-aggrandizement clown like a certain other well known rider?

Click to expand...

Good post.



Is the answer the passport? In regards to Kevin.

bluegreen said:

In regards to Kevin.

Click to expand...

Mr. Schwantz is loved because he went balls out in every race, overroad a bike casual fans knew was inferior, challenged the sports greats, had a great rivalry with Mr. Rainey, and was ultimately tied to one of the greatest figures of the sport, and personality wise, he was a showman but not a clown, among other reasons.



Casey Stoner was/is disliked because first and foremost, he committed the ultimate crime--that was to beat Valentino Rossi, at a time where 46 had become a icon of worship by his peculiar fans who bought into the facade and surpassing the normal admiration of general fans. The other reasons are tangential, in particular his introverted personality, the thing people pointed to to justify their dislike, God knows they couldn't point to the record on the track.

ROCKGOD01 said:

Just read on Ductalk.com Ben Spies will be going to the Pramac team with a factory ride from the factory. His teammate will be Andrea Iannone. I for some reason can't copy the link, not sure why but it is there. It does seem to make sense since the Gresini Ride would make him switch suspensions and it seemed as though Fausto was keen on keeping the current rider.



Now I would think that after all this fanfare with Vale leaving and the next few riders falling into place for Ducati, they would get thier act together. Let's face it, GP needs them to be competative as do the rest of the fans who watch racing. As much as I am not a Suzuki fan, I can't wait for them to get back to the premier class also, same hopefully with Kawi. But in the current climate of the sport, it seems like a lifetime away that we could see all the major players at full song, banging bars and making us gasp when they attempt a pass.

Click to expand...

Now Ducati will have one rider and crew with lots of experience with what might work and what didn't - Hayden.Two experienced ex Yamaha riders who are fast,with different ridingstyles,and one `all in`rookie.The Ideas from Rossi/Burgess,who probarbly tried to incorporate the best features of the M1,might be very useful then 2013.I hope so.Maybe Ducati were hoping for as many experienced Yamaha riders as possible.It must be a good thing.

Jumkie said:

A. Mr. Schwantz is loved because he went balls out in every race, overroad a bike casual fans knew was inferior, challenged the sports greats, had a great rivalry with Mr. Rainey, and was ultimately tied to one of the greatest figures of the sport, and personality wise, he was a showman but not a clown, among other reasons.



B. Casey Stoner was/is disliked because first and foremost, he committed the ultimate crime--that was to beat Valentino Rossi, at a time where 46 had become a icon of worship by his peculiar fans who bought into the facade and surpassing the normal admiration of general fans. The other reasons are tangential, in particular his introverted personality, the thing people pointed to to justify their dislike, God knows they couldn't point to the record on the track.

Click to expand...

A. Similar effort w different results. Think on this, would Schwantz have had the same popularity if he'd come along earlier and constantly taken away victories from Barry Sheene? Schwantz and Rainey were fellow Yanks so in a sense it was neutral ground fan-wise. Come to think on it... I can't ever remember any race fans in the '70s or '80s ever saying they hated any rider.



B. Beating Rossi was the straw that broke the camel's back. Stoner said he was regularly booed by British fans from early on. He speaks about it at length in an interview in RRW magazine. Beating Vale was like

throwing fuel (a lot) on a fire that was already burning.

Jumkie said:

Mr. Schwantz is loved because he went balls out in every race, overroad a bike casual fans knew was inferior, challenged the sports greats, had a great rivalry with Mr. Rainey, and was ultimately tied to one of the greatest figures of the sport, and personality wise, he was a showman but not a clown, among other reasons.



Casey Stoner was/is disliked because first and foremost, he committed the ultimate crime--that was to beat Valentino Rossi, at a time where 46 had become a icon of worship by his peculiar fans who bought into the facade and surpassing the normal admiration of general fans. The other reasons are tangential, in particular his introverted personality, the thing people pointed to to justify their dislike, God knows they couldn't point to the record on the track.

Click to expand...

I know why he is loved, I think what Kesh was musing was "why the love for Kevin and not Casey?". I mean, fast forward 10 years from now and take a look at this paragraph :



Mr. Stoner is loved because he went balls out in every race, overroad a bike casual fans knew learned was inferior, challenged the sports greats, had a great rivalry with Mr. Rossi, and was ultimately tied to one of the greatest figures of the sport, and personality wise, he was a showman straight shooter but not an clown ......., among other reasons.



Stoner is really Schwantz 2.0, less personality, more skill IMHO. There is not a lot to pick from between the two, but as pointed out, one is hated (by some) and the other is universally loved. The beating Rossi thing has to be a big part of it but as also pointed out, he wasn't well liked long before this. So again, wrong passport? Where as Kevin if not having the "right" passport at least had a neutral one and the same as his rival?



Another thought just occurred to me. Kevin's time was pre internet. I remember when I first got to powerslide being quite shocked by how much the riders personalities were discussed. Coming from hockey boards where in comparison it's pretty much nil the difference really stood out for me. Moving right along, if you were a fan in the early 90's you were getting whatever ...... TV coverage you could find and magazine coverage, that's about it. Now with so much info out there and all this dead space that needs to be filled up we get so much more info, twitter, online journals, blogs, motogp.com etc.. but most of it is soap opera..



Maybe if Casey came along back in the day he would simply be a bit of an enigma who rode like the devil, but now with all the soap opera drama he was just a guy who got shoehorned into the villain's role. Anyway it's quite late and I think I'm just rambling. Time for some bourbon and some sleep ...

bluegreen said:

Another thought just occurred to me. Kevin's time was pre internet. I remember when I first got to powerslide being quite shocked by how much the riders personalities were discussed. Coming from hockey boards where in comparison it's pretty much nil the difference really stood out for me. Moving right along, if you were a fan in the early 90's you were getting whatever ...... TV coverage you could find and magazine coverage, that's about it. Now with so much info out there and all this dead space that needs to be filled up we get so much more info, twitter, online journals, blogs, motogp.com etc.. but most of it is soap opera..



Maybe if Casey came along back in the day he would simply be a bit of an enigma who rode like the devil, but now with all the soap opera drama he was just a guy who got shoehorned into the villain's role. Anyway it's quite late and I think I'm just rambling. Time for some bourbon and some sleep ...

Click to expand...

This.

Keshav said:

In the meantime - having a hard time picturing macho, stoic Ben in the flashy green and white livery.

Click to expand...

Visualize his mum at his side with a pink shirt and white jeans, and the picture will immediately pop up better.

J4rn0 said:

Visualize his mum at his side with a pink shirt and white jeans, and the picture will immediately pop up better.

Click to expand...

Keshav said:

I can't ever remember any race fans in the '70s or '80s ever saying they hated any rider.

Click to expand...

and they still dont..... if someone "hates" a rider probably motorcycles is not his thing... football fan who lost his way i guess

Keshav said:

I can't ever remember any race fans in the '70s or '80s ever saying they hated any rider.

Click to expand...

Then recall Phil Read, possibly the most loathed rider in this Championships history and depised by his counterparts and race fans in equal measure.