Average Riders in MotoGP

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gsfan @ Aug 29 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]87498[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What an astonishing statement. So void of logic it's hard to classify unless you know the contrived culture it emanates from. A portrayal of astounding historical ignorance and a comic book level understanding of present world reality.



A++++++

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Reel Nauti @ Aug 29 2007, 06:05 PM) [snapback]87501[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
"Many a true word is said in jest" and Migs' post is hilarious.


Ta Reel...
Some folks just take everything far too seriously....so why not have some fun a make some controversial or challenging remarks every now and again....

Does anyone really think any of these guys are average or mediocre? Of course not they are all awesome riders and make us mortal look like kids with training wheels on our bike (mines Ducati BTW)...it just that some are of a greater level than others in the field, and some are not as great as we would like them to be or think/feel they are...so lighten up folks please!

And about the Duhamel thing...Hodgson is going to sign for the Honda Factory team in AMA next year, so perhaps Miguel has got enough money in his back pocket to keep Mrs Miguel happy and will retire...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(raven46 @ Aug 29 2007, 01:13 PM) [snapback]87503[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
A++++++


I chickened out and edited my original post thinking this is no place for this kind of argument...but thanks.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(raven46 @ Aug 30 2007, 03:05 AM) [snapback]87500[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
.... ME... THIS THREAD IS COMPLETELY ........

AS FOR AN4REW I WONT EVEN GO THERE.. HE SIMPLY HAS'NT A CLUE WHTA HE IS TALKING ABOUT....


Another member with some sanity! Thank you, i completely agree..

Migs
To call GW Bush mediocre, would be a flattering compliment.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Aug 29 2007, 03:07 AM) [snapback]87402[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
- Hayden - He is the GW Bush of MotoGP


This, ladies and gentlement, is a case in point in how you might want to handle remarks like the above. Such posts as this stem from one of two reasons, one, out of hate, or two, designed to troll. Ok this is what you do, as many of you have recently suggested to ignore, or count to 10, or skip over, or etc. Some of you might get so fired up that you will have difficulty resisting the urge and want to reason or pursuade or convince or present your point of view. But really, ask yourself, how much progress would reasonable debate serve if only one of you thinks they are reasonable? Perhaps then, one might feel the urge to get personal, and send out an insult. For example, you may feel compelled to say what an idiotic statement this is and equate the author of such statement as childish, silly, and asinine. But that would be foolish too because then all you would do is attract unwanted attention from the hard working moderators. So lets do the following as an example of what to do when coming across this kind of post. Move on, let them think they made a witty remark, don’t antagonize, and go on to the next post, like nothing ever happened.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Aug 28 2007, 09:09 PM) [snapback]87353[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Who do you think should not be in MotoGP?

There sure is alot of dead wood;

De Puniet (Serial Crasher)
Anthony West (250 Reject)
Alex Hoffman (Who?)
Chris Vermuelen (Only great in wet, dunno)
Kurtis Roberts (I know his surname well)
Loris Capirossi (finished)
Makoto Tamada (finished)
Carlos Checa (finished)
Colin Edwards (never started)

Well you make a good question, not sure too many appreciated your opinions though. But I'll play along.

Here are a few thoughts.

Kurtis Roberts. Can we remove this guy from your list? Really, think about it, this team is holding on to the skin of their teeth. That Kurtis is riding should be applauded not chastised. Look, he is part of the family, on a family team with zero budget. If you had a family owned and operated business, which was losing money like a ... fiend at a whore house, would you go out and pay for a rider if you had your own son willing to put in the work? Its not like staying fit, setting out for grueling testing, with the added danger of getting hurt, and lapping around in what anybody can see is an inferior machine is all that enjoyable.
Can we give this team and rider a pass, since clearly they have a unique a special situation? He gets a pass. Stays.

Depuniet does crash allot. So I don’t see the big deal here, you are just stating a fact. But look at the fantastic transformation that Stoner went though and now is on top of the world. He’s French, so Dorna says he stays, but I’m 50/50 with him.

West doesn’t seem to be a “reject” it seems, since he has managed to beat his teammate on less track time and fewer races and has just earned a place on a factory ride. He stays.

Hoffman, well I don’t really know enough of the guy, but it’s so hard to form an opinion about these guys when they run around on such crappy bikes. He is German thought, so Dorna says he stays. Who knows.

Ah, Vermuelen. Now this one is difficult. He has won a race you know. This alone should grant him safe status. But really, I’m not impressed with his overall performances. I’m 70/30 giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Capirossi will be finished when he says he’s done. He has a very likable an refreshing personality and is still one of the best riders out there, remember, he was tied in the points lead before that horrible crash at Cat Spain last year. I think his season was scrapped, which was tragic to his career because he’s not getting any younger. That said, he is not impressive if you consider the fact that Stoner is on the same package. So that either means Loris is really bad, or Stoner is really good. I’m going with Stoner is really good and give Loris the benefit of the doubt. He stays in my book.

Tamada. I don’t have the energy to discuss. He goes. Sign another Japanese rider if you must.

Checa is as good as McWilliams or McCoy or Jacques. They all are gone, I think its time for him to go too.

Edwards is an enigma. I don’t know what to make of him. He was an excellent superbike champion. But it just hasn’t panned out for him in GP. Now to his defense, he did start on the Aprillia and as we know that wasn’t gonna earn him a title. But now he’s been on the seemingly #2 package that Rossi has been on but has had little success. Now I’m fully aware that Yamaha would never have accepted him beating Rossi (if he could) but I think they would have at least allowed for some podiums (if nothing else to take away points from potential challengers to Rossi.). But it hasn’t happened. Sorry Burky, he goes.

So this is what we do on forums? Its fun.

Oh, just curious, why didn’t you put Guintoli on your list? Do you think he has earned a safe status? Just wondering. Anybody else, feel free to chime in.

If all riders were super awesome like Rossi and Stoner, then wouldn't they all be average? If every rider who failed to impress was hastily jettisoned from the grid, wouldn't Moto GP lack some continuity? Familiarity?

There's a racing series based in my country that suffers from a revolving door of racers. You have a handfull of familiar, respected racers, but the rest of the grid is made up of what'shisnames.

Sure, you want to see two or three new guys each season, but how would losing six or seven riders each year affect Moto GP's popularity? The sport would miss out on the Checa and Barros fans, who get excited when their rider finishes 6th or 7th. While you don't want the rider pool to become totally stagnant, the importance of a somewhat familiar cast is something to keep in mind.

For the most part, successful sports are the ones that put people in the front. I love sports car racing to death, but it will probably never be popular. Why is that? Well, in sports car racing, the cars are the stars. Unless a HUGE number of people suddenly become gear heads, this form of racing will remain in its niche.

Ideally, Moto GP would have its international following based on a widespread appreciation for the machines and the art of racing. This way, people wouldn't cling to a particular rider; there would be no problem with getting rid of so-called "dead weight."

However, the reality is that successful sports have a certain ratio of familiar faces. Moto GP would be wise to keep this element in tact.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mr. Shupe @ Aug 30 2007, 05:43 AM) [snapback]87565[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Ideally, Moto GP would have its international following based on a widespread appreciation for the machines and the <strike>art</strike> science of racing.

What about Troy Bayliss ?
Remember last seasons last race ? He came as a 'guest' and he won the race. He was as dominant as Stoner is now. That was very embarrassing for the motogp riders was'nt it ?

the era of Kevin Schwantz & Mick Doohan (and earlier years more, ofcourse) where talent and courage was the most important factors is gone.

nowdays, with the electronic aids, and the sophisticated tyres, the machine's performance shadows the talent of the rider.

Also, most of the circuits now are made(or get changed) safer, with more 'stop and go' turns. Good for F1 and generally for the TV to capture the adv's on the bikes and cars. But it takes away the opportunity from the riders to show their skills and courage (ok, balls)

Put them compete on Isle of Man TT and then you can make some correct conclusions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(koskal @ Aug 30 2007, 09:38 AM) [snapback]87571[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Put them compete on Isle of Man TT and then you can make some correct conclusions.



Bloody hell, and I am called Controversial (or Troll like) ....

Let's throw in Macau just to be sure to separate the men from the boys...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Aug 30 2007, 04:47 AM) [snapback]87561[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Well you make a good question, not sure too many appreciated your opinions though. But I'll play along.

Here are a few thoughts.

Kurtis Roberts. Can we remove this guy from your list? Really, think about it, this team is holding on to the skin of their teeth. That Kurtis is riding should be applauded not chastised. Look, he is part of the family, on a family team with zero budget. If you had a family owned and operated business, which was losing money like a ... fiend at a whore house, would you go out and pay for a rider if you had your own son willing to put in the work? Its not like staying fit, setting out for grueling testing, with the added danger of getting hurt, and lapping around in what anybody can see is an inferior machine is all that enjoyable.
Can we give this team and rider a pass, since clearly they have a unique a special situation? He gets a pass. Stays.

Fair enough point.

Depuniet does crash allot. So I don’t see the big deal here, you are just stating a fact. But look at the fantastic transformation that Stoner went though and now is on top of the world. He’s French, so Dorna says he stays, but I’m 50/50 with him.

Ok, we'll see if he can do a stoner.

West doesn’t seem to be a “reject” it seems, since he has managed to beat his teammate on less track time and fewer races and has just earned a place on a factory ride. He stays.

The Reason i named him is that he was on a non factory bike in 250cc and there was likely better riders to pick


Capirossi will be finished when he says he’s done. He has a very likable an refreshing personality and is still one of the best riders out there, remember, he was tied in the points lead before that horrible crash at Cat Spain last year. I think his season was scrapped, which was tragic to his career because he’s not getting any younger. That said, he is not impressive if you consider the fact that Stoner is on the same package. So that either means Loris is really bad, or Stoner is really good. I’m going with Stoner is really good and give Loris the benefit of the doubt. He stays in my book.


Well Stoner is showing him up but hes also having trouble with the smaller bike.


Edwards is an enigma. I don’t know what to make of him. He was an excellent superbike champion. But it just hasn’t panned out for him in GP. Now to his defense, he did start on the Aprillia and as we know that wasn’t gonna earn him a title. But now he’s been on the seemingly #2 package that Rossi has been on but has had little success. Now I’m fully aware that Yamaha would never have accepted him beating Rossi (if he could) but I think they would have at least allowed for some podiums (if nothing else to take away points from potential challengers to Rossi.). But it hasn’t happened. Sorry Burky, he goes.

I always wanted Colin to do well with his pedigree but hes the most frustrating guy out there. Hes also supposed to be good at setting up the bike so i don't understand him.

So this is what we do on forums? Its fun.

Oh, just curious, why didn’t you put Guintoli on your list? Do you think he has earned a safe status? Just wondering. Anybody else, feel free to chime in.

I've been impressed with him this season, want to see how well he goes with Bridgestones.

Thanks for your input mate, instead of bashing my post you have constructively agreed with some parts and made some other very valid points.